Question Air vs Water cooling for no-OC and no-Game Desktop

[arnuld]

Hi Guys,

I am building up with Thermaltake Versa N25 with Corsair H60 vs Gammaxx 400 on Ryzen 5 2600. You can seel full list on PCPartPicker. I do not overclock, I don't play games. Just programming, data science work and BluRay/1080p movies and 1080p videos on youtube. I was wondering what difference I will feel in air vs water here.

I live in Hyderabad (INDIA) where usual temperature is 40 degree Celsius (that's 104F)

 

[UsandThem]

I was wondering what difference I will feel in air vs water here.

Absolutely nothing. You could even use the stock cooler for the Ryzen 2600, and not really notice any difference.

 

[arnuld]

Absolutely nothing. You could even use the stock cooler for the Ryzen 2600, and not really notice any difference.

Ok. That takes water cooling out of the way.

I have old Phenom X3 440 and when I replaced AMD's stock cooler with Gammaxx 200 , temps went down by 10C. What if I want to put Gammaxx 400 on Ryzen 2600 ? I am only worried about the weight of air cooler

 

[ao_ika_red]

Ok. That takes water cooling out of the way.

I have old Phenom X3 440 and when I replaced AMD's stock cooler with Gammaxx 200 , temps went down by 10C. What if I want to put Gammaxx 400 on Ryzen 2600 ? I am only worried about the weight of air cooler

The weight of Gammaxx 400 is nothing compared to Noctua U12S and most people are okay with it. But again, Ryzen's stock cooler is much better than Phenom or early FX era. Some even get decent light-OC with Ryzen's stock cooler.

 

[arnuld]

The weight of Gammaxx 400 is nothing compared to Noctua U12S and most people are okay with it. But again, Ryzen's stock cooler is much better than Phenom or early FX era. Some even get decent light-OC with Ryzen's stock cooler.

Gammaxx 400 is 709 gm and U12S is 868 gm. Just 160 gm difference but yeah, still lesser weight.

 

[ao_ika_red]

Gammaxx 400 is 709 gm and U12S is 868 gm. Just 160 gm difference but yeah, still lesser weight.

I'm using Gammaxx 400 right now and I don't have any problem, weight wise. Most recent AMD boards already have backplate anyway, so it's safe enough to put big tower heatsink.

 

[arnuld]

Watched lot of videos and read lot of articles and thousands of posts across different forums. Totally convinced, air-cooling is what I want to do. Worth mentioning is this excellent video from Linus Tech Tips and then there are this and this.

 

[DigDog]

Guys,

You are all new here, which likely neans you are maybe 20~25yo. You grew up in a world of publicity spam with MOAR and BETTERR ! fetting plastered everywhere. No disrespect - i can understand it's not easy to see fact when surrounded by bs.

Aftermarket coolers are ONLY for use on out-of-spec computers.

This isnt like getting a better muffler for your car. There is zero difference between a cpu running at 66C and one at 76C. They perform indentically.
Cpus are sold with a cooler that allows them to function at peak, always.
(This was not always the case, but it is now)

What you want is that your cpu NEVER reaches above its operating temp, which is generally above 90C. The stock cooler does this perfectly well.
If you do overclock - which is now very common, with computers being sold pre-overclocked, and even a "one touch overclock" function existing in most motherboard BIOSes - then yes, the temperatures will go above 90C, and you will need an aftermarket cooler.

My guess is that eventually you will decide to overclock your cpu; depending on how hard you want to push it, we can recommend a cooler.

Now, the ... nothing short of MYTHICAL Noctua DH-15 is capable of handling just about any realistic voltage. You can expect to reuse it for many years on new pc builds (you might need to buy a new bracket to adapt to a new socket), and the weight isnt really an issue due to the high quality construction of modern motherboards PCBs.

Corsair also makes very nice AIOs, the H110i is very well regarded. There are alternatives too, like the be-quiet! Dark Rock (cheaper) and the formidable H212+ (cheapest and excellent), that will last for a long, long time.

Just be aware that these are only useful for and exclusively for overclocked, out-of-spec computers; if you buy them for a stock PC, you are throwing away your money.

(some rare instances where this isnt true do exist, but this isnt the case)

 

[ch33zw1z]

Re: the above post. With each CPU, check the specs for Max operating temp.

In terms of aftermarket coolers, get one if you want, some people use it for aesthetic reasons

In terms of the H60 versus aftermarket air cooler versus stock cooler....I wouldn't really expect much out of the H60 that the stock cooler won't give you. If you're gonna get into over clocking, get something more made for it.

My son wanted the H60 to replace his stock cooler on an Intel 7400, we had this discussion, and since he can't overclock it anyways....no matter. He wants it for the look, so he's getting it for Christmas.

 

[arnuld]

Guys,

You are all new here, which likely neans you are maybe 20~25yo. You grew up in a world of publicity spam with MOAR and BETTERR ! fetting plastered everywhere. No disrespect - i can understand it's not easy to see fact when surrounded by bs.

Aftermarket coolers are ONLY for use on out-of-spec computers.

This isnt like getting a better muffler for your car. There is zero difference between a cpu running at 66C and one at 76C. They perform indentically.
Cpus are sold with a cooler that allows them to function at peak, always.
(This was not always the case, but it is now)

What you want is that your cpu NEVER reaches above its operating temp, which is generally above 90C. The stock cooler does this perfectly well.
If you do overclock - which is now very common, with computers being sold pre-overclocked, and even a "one touch overclock" function existing in most motherboard BIOSes - then yes, the temperatures will go above 90C, and you will need an aftermarket cooler.

My guess is that eventually you will decide to overclock your cpu; depending on how hard you want to push it, we can recommend a cooler.

Now, the ... nothing short of MYTHICAL Noctua DH-15 is capable of handling just about any realistic voltage. You can expect to reuse it for many years on new pc builds (you might need to buy a new bracket to adapt to a new socket), and the weight isnt really an issue due to the high quality construction of modern motherboards PCBs.

Corsair also makes very nice AIOs, the H110i is very well regarded. There are alternatives too, like the be-quiet! Dark Rock (cheaper) and the formidable H212+ (cheapest and excellent), that will last for a long, long time.

Just be aware that these are only useful for and exclusively for overclocked, out-of-spec computers; if you buy them for a stock PC, you are throwing away your money.

(some rare instances where this isnt true do exist, but this isnt the case)

I understand your point that people do overkill with their after-market coolers. Somehow I don't agree with your implicit statement that CPU is ok to run on 90 degrees. More the heat, the faster CPU (any hardware) dies. If you can keep it cool then of course not only it will live longer but also it will perform better for the time it will live. It is a different matter that people upgrade their CPU and coolers too after 2-3 years.

There are 2 assumptions behind your thoughts that you need to understand though:

1st, my default BIOS settings (AMD Athlon II X3 440 on Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H) for shutting down the CPU are 76 degree Celsius. 3 years of stock cpu cooling with 1 exhaust fan on rear and 1 exhaust on top that came with Antec 300 case. Then I put Gammaxx 200 in 2014 + 2 fans in front of the case too. Since then it is performing bit better (improvement in speed and response). Its idle temps have come down from 55 to 35-40. Where I live, 40 degrees Celsius is the usual day temperature.

2nd, not everyone buys Antec or Corsair. Last 20 years I have seen people around me building machines in India where majority of population is lower-middle class. Antec Case cost me 5K INR (INdian Rupees) at that time + 3K I spent on Antec 430 Earthwatts PSU, total 8K. Generally how much a lower-middle class guy spends on case and PSU (people call it SMPS here) ? .. 0.5K or 1K at max. You read it right. it is less than 1K on Case+PSU . When I spent 8K on Antec, I was gossip of the town that I am filthy-rich (I was jobless though at that time)

Why I brought up the 2nd point ? because such low quality PSU+Case computers, not to mention they run it without UPS and voltage flickers all day. With that, average lifespan of such computers is 5-6 years. So, yeah, may be you are right about no need for extra cooling. And we can no way compare those machines to machines like we build here on forums when it comes to performance and productivity.

 

[DigDog]

My numbers are a bit off but the point stands. A cpu that is above the heat spec deteriorates faster and underperforms, but one that isnt does not improve in performance. Running your cpu at 20C under max or 40C under max is identical.
Also, cpu degradation in practice happens too slowly to notice, the cpu will be obsolete well before it dies due to electron migration. I ran a E6600 at 1.5v for years and the motherboard failed far earlier than the cpu. Degradation and burning a cpu through overvoltage or overheating are not the same thing.

Anyway, good luck with your build.

 

[arnuld]

yeah. I agree with 20 vs 40 temps. CPU and RAM don't die, they are more like strong Case. PSUs, Motherboards and HDDs die much earlier.

 

[arnuld]

Guys,
...SNIP....
This isnt like getting a better muffler for your car. There is zero difference between a cpu running at 66C and one at 76C. They perform indentically.
Cpus are sold with a cooler that allows them to function at peak, always.
(This was not always the case, but it is now)
...SNIP....
My guess is that eventually you will decide to overclock your cpu; depending on how hard you want to push it, we can recommend a cooler.

Well, you were right.

Today i decided to overclock. This is my PCPartPicker list. Going to build it in first week of new year. I am buying MSI X470 gaming plus and turn ON its BIOS feature called "Gaming Boost" which boost the clock to extra 450 MHz. Ryzen 2600X is 3.6 GHz on default, then it will be running 4.1 GHz, it has its own XFR2 auto-overclock feature too.

Noctua U14S + NM-AM4-UxS mounting bracket is what I wanted but then bit of research told me that for many who built their machiens, U14S touched the graphics card. Then Noctua website itself says NH-D15 and U12S was designed specifically for clearing out the extra room for RAMs and Graphic cards.

I was wondering if Noctua U12S SE-AM4 will be better or D15 SE AM4. I like U12S because D15 is very big and it takes away the fun of RGB RAMs. Newgg price difference not much for India.

 

[DigDog]

I do not have personal experience with the dh15 or u12, cant tell you; i dont use rgb lights anyway, never had that problem. It's been disputed that ram heatspreaders actually do anything beside look cool.

I would suggest that you look into overclocking your pc manually, not via "game boost", as you can probably get the same 4.1 or more, using less voltage. Motherboard boost functions are ver liberal with the way they boost and use voltage.

That would also allow to use a cheaper cooler, like the long-time-honoured 212+, 212 evo or 212x by coolermaster. These are REALLY GOOD coolers that cost very little, like, $25 or so.
Im not sure if they come with thermal paste (another $10).

 

[arnuld]

Now that's some new info. I checked few YouTube videos on Motherboard boosting and they confirmed your "liberal theory". I don't want to get into complications and i am not much of enthusiast anyway. So let's drop this OCing.

And then I see Cooler Master 212 is everywhere, it is Old is Gold, it is the ancient master with all the cooling wisdom. It is cheap at, $43 for Hyper 212 LED Turbo (AM4 compatible) and thermal paste in included. U12S costs around $70. I still want to try Noctua because I see they specialize only in CPU cooling and fans and have all the great positive reviews on every forum/site I encounter. U12S is only a little bit better than 212. I think I will go one of them.

 

[fastamdman]

Overclocking is very easy and can gain a nice increase. You can simply use a program inside of windows to set your voltage and multiplier to what you want and you are done. You can also do the same in the bios. Once done, run a stress test like linx or aida64 or whatever your stress test of choice is. As long as the system is stable you are fine. If it crashes, increase voltage slightly. As long as temps are within a reasonable level, I recommend overclocking personally.

As far as the air vs water thing, the only thing I will say is that you can get quieter performance with water cooling, but the cost to performance ratio isn't worth it. Air cooling can be quiet as well, but the cost starts to increase as well.

For casuals I would highly recommend using a cheap aftermarket cpu cooler like the hyper 212+ or evo etc as mentioned above.

Noctua is an amazing brand, but they are on the higher end of pricing as well. They make arguably the best fans on the market currently and some of the best air coolers out there.

You will be just fine with whatever you decide to get, just remember to buy thermal paste as well. Not very many air coolers come with thermal paste, where as just about every AIO watercooling setup comes with pre-applied thermal compound. When applying thermal paste, make sure it covers the entire cpu evenly, you don't want one or two cores running 10-20 degrees hotter than the others.