Air or AIO liquid for stock i7-4790k?

[Jumpem]

I have no interest in overclocking anymore. I want something quiet, but that will keep the CPU cool enough for the maximum turbo frequency to be maintained.

Are the AIO coolers pretty much leak proof these days? That is my main concern regarding them. I think that they would be quieter.

Would a 280mm x 140mm be overkill? It would line up nicely with the case (Corsair 350D) that I like.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I have no interest in overclocking anymore. I want something quiet, but that will keep the CPU cool enough for the maximum turbo frequency to be maintained.

Are the AIO coolers pretty much leak proof these days? That is my main concern regarding them. I think that they would be quieter.

Would a 280mm x 140mm be overkill? It would line up nicely with the case (Corsair 350D) that I like.

A forum member put a Corsair H80i in a C70 case, making some minor improvement with a duct that moved the fans (both sides) a small distance from the radiator/fins. He used 140mm intake fans -- three or more -- but I don't think he completely used the C70's full complement of fan vents. He didn't need to, apparently -- and by my own estimation as well.

With a 4790K at stock speeds or perhaps minimally overclocked to "all cores" at the same stock 4.4 turbo speed, load temperatures under IBT or equivalent were around 56C.

Enough has been said about risks of AiOs. Apparently the more recent units use quality pumps. I've seen no pattern story of failures here in recent times. There is better thermal control of fans and pumps. People who don't mind the expense too much might incline toward replacing stock fans of AiO coolers.

My own confidence is better now than when AiOs were a somewhat newer phenomenon.

 

[rchunter]

If you're not going to overclock why not try the stock intel heat sink? I have one on my server and it's quiet enough for me. It might be for you too. At least try it before you go spending a lot of money on a AIO.

 

[ClockHound]

For quiet, non-overclocked performance, Air is the most cost effective.

For under $50, the single tower Thermalright TS 140 Rev A is within a few degrees of the best AIOs (at 2-4X price) while being 4-8X quieter. (Even Overclocked)

TS 140 Test


4770K temps stock at load:

Noise at load:

If low noise is the priority, then good air will be quieter with lower temps than AIOs: (This test limits the noise level to <40dB and most AIOs are still louder and hotter)

You don't need to get to D15/R1 level for stock. A Noctua U14 or Cryorig H5 will be just fine for stock/mild overclock.

AIOs dramatically sacrifice low noise performance for a few degrees lower temps. And lower long term reliability. A bad tradeoff, imo. But, they've been a great marketing boon for Asetek. And that is probably the most important thing about AIOs.

Aesthetics might be another reason to consider AIOs...having your CPU sit under life support tubes waiting for the pump to expire is apparently appealing to many.

Custom water loops, cooling the CPU and GPUs, I can appreciate, but not these Asetek mickey-mouse fantasy liquid coolers. Go Big Loop or go Air! Or Big Air! :biggrin:

 

[Jumpem]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[YBS1]

I really like the AIOs for a variety of reasons, but if you're absolutely not planning on overclocking I don't see but two reasons one would choose AIO over air. One being aesthetics, they simply look nice and tidy in the case. The second reason being I simply don't like the idea of a huge, heavy chunk of metal hanging off my motherboard. I'd probably go air in this situation, as reliable as AIOs have shown to be, there is simply more that could go wrong. AIOs don't have a noise advantage like custom water can over air, so that's out as well.

 

[ClockHound]

I really like the AIOs for a variety of reasons, buy if you're absolutely not planning on overclocking I don't see but two reasons one would choose AIO over air. One being aesthetics, they simply look nice and tidy in the case. The second reason being I simply don't like the idea of a huge, heavy chunk of metal hanging off my motherboard. I'd probably go air in this situation, as reliable as AIOs have shown to be, there is simply more that could go wrong. AIOs don't have a noise advantage like custom water can over air, so that's out as well.

Regarding the huge gravitational sway of all that metal...First, the main mass is in the plate of an air cooler - the fins, are thin and light. So, there's actually not that much leverage on a motherboard. Heavy fans like GTs...well...there's ways to support them. Motherboards can support quite a bit, look at those big GPUs hanging in there...

Ah...aesthetics...so subjective. I much prefer the clean look of a nice neat stack of fins than plastic tubing meandering around my case. ;-)

 

[lehtv]

Regarding the huge gravitational sway of all that metal...First, the main mass is in the plate of an air cooler - the fins, are thin and light. So, there's actually not that much leverage on a motherboard. Heavy fans like GTs...well...there's ways to support them. Motherboards can support quite a bit, look at those big GPUs hanging in there...

Not to mention that the weight is actually not applying much force on the motherboard. The motherboard is screwed into the case, and almost all of the force is absorbed by the case. I never see anyone bringing up this point, even though it's clear as day that a problem would arise only if you had the cooler hanging from a motherboard which wasn't secured into something heavy.

 

[phillyman36]

@Clockhound I was actually looking at that Thermalright as well as a Noctua(Noctua a little more pricier so looking for it cheaper). Trying to decide between


http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-U14...qid=1436692002&sr=8-1&keywords=noctua+nh-u14s


http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-...=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1436643340&sr=1-2

Going to ditch my Corsair H110

 

[ClockHound]

@phillyman36

For performance and cost, the TS 140A is exceptional - also the pipes are offset to clear the 1st PCie slot if that's an issue.

The U14 is a little easier to install, oozes quality and their support is legend.
Hitech Legion U14 Review

Outlet PC has the U14 for 67.88

Either are a great choice. Both have great 140mm fans. The Thermalright is the best value. The Noctua is premium chocolate and cream. ;-)

 

[phillyman36]

@phillyman36

For performance and cost, the TS 140A is exceptional - also the pipes are offset to clear the 1st PCie slot if that's an issue.

The U14 is a little easier to install, oozes quality and their support is legend.
Hitech Legion U14 Review

Outlet PC has the U14 for 67.88

Either are a great choice. Both have great 140mm fans. The Thermalright is the best value. The Noctua is premium chocolate and cream. ;-)

Thanks i will decide before the week is up. I still have to look for my Thermalright Archon and if it fits maybe use that. If not it will be one of the 2 discussed but im leaning towards Thermalright True

 

[MoInSTL]

AIOs dramatically sacrifice low noise performance for a few degrees lower temps.

Not true. It depends on which AIO and which fans. I have a Kraken X61 in a Fractal R5 with 4, 140 Noctua fans in push/pull. It's the only variable pump AIO which made it an easy pick along with the CAM software. First AIO Silent PC can recommend. There are custom fan curves, Performance & Silent mode. I just run it on silent mode and it's dead quiet. My pump speed is currently at 2280 and fan RPM is only 600. It is pricey, especially after removing the stock fans and adding 2 more. Most people will find the stock fans acceptable. I wanted to match them up since it's in a push/pull. It keeps my 5820k nice and cool.

Edit: Unless it's mishandled or a bad one sneaks by QA, it does carry a 6 year warranty. I have an X99-a which has a built in back plate and the block was already configured for LGA 2011-3 so it was a very simple install. @ClockHound, there is no "meandering". Straight shot using black rubber, not "plastic" tubes.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/NZXT_Kraken_X61
Product page
https://www.nzxt.com/product/detail/147-kraken-x61-liquid-cooler.html
For reviews, click on the review tab

 

[ClockHound]

Not true. It depends on which AIO and which fans. I have a Kraken X61 in a Fractal R5 with 4, 140 Noctua fans in push/pull. It's the only variable pump AIO which made it an easy pick along with the CAM software. First AIO Silent PC can recommend. There are custom fan curves, Performance & Silent mode. I just run it on silent mode and it's dead quiet. My pump speed is currently at 2280 and fan RPM is only 600. It is pricey, especially after removing the stock fans and adding 2 more. Most people will find the stock fans acceptable. I wanted to match them up since it's in a push/pull. It keeps my 5820k nice and cool.

Edit: Unless it's mishandled or a bad one sneaks by QA, it does carry a 6 year warranty. I have an X99-a which has a built in back plate and the block was already configured for LGA 2011-3 so it was a very simple install. @ClockHound, there is no "meandering". Straight shot using black rubber, not "plastic" tubes.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/NZXT_Kraken_X61
Product page
https://www.nzxt.com/product/detail/147-kraken-x61-liquid-cooler.html
For reviews, click on the review tab

Straight or meandering, they still look like ugly life support tubes to me - that's just my taste. Many, many others like you feel it looks clean. That's the beauty of DIY, we truly do get to make our personal computers, personal.

And combined with a very bad experience with an early Corsair H100, not keen to recommend any AIO. Especially when most need another $80-100 in replacement fans. Not winning me with value.

I don't have the time anymore or the dedication to mess with a full custom loop, CPU/GPU/MB with hard tubing, but that's the only way I'd put my systems under water again.

Yes, the Kraken X61 is the exception to most of the Asetek AIOs...however, it's still far, far noisier than say the TR 140 in an overclocked system (34dB vs 59dB - Ouch!) and 3X pricier for only a tiny improvement in temps and more points of failure.

AIOs don't make a silent, good value CPU cooling solution, for me.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I don't care about the aesthetic, but less expense of clutter inside the case is a plus. But space consumed by a D14/D15 needs comparison to that used by a radiator. And maybe a reservoir.

The only thing that matters to me is cooling performance and a requirement for it, and I overclock half the systems I build.

Since the OP doesn't plan on OC'ing or care to, I could ask why he bought the K processor, but that's either his choice or his situation. I'd think he'd get by fine with a 212 EVO, if he means what he says. And he could still squeeze out some extra clock speeds if he changes his mind later. I imagine it would work fine to clock the 4790K to its stock turbo speed "for all cores." With a 4790K, it almost seems a waste of time and effort for an extra 300Mhz. What you could do with the EVO for that, I couldn't say, and I'd pick something else for 4.5 to 4.7 Ghz.

 

[Jumpem]

I don't care about the aesthetic, but less expense of clutter inside the case is a plus. But space consumed by a D14/D15 needs comparison to that used by a radiator. And maybe a reservoir.

The only thing that matters to me is cooling performance and a requirement for it, and I overclock half the systems I build.

Since the OP doesn't plan on OC'ing or care to, I could ask why he bought the K processor, but that's either his choice or his situation. I'd think he'd get by fine with a 212 EVO, if he means what he says. And he could still squeeze out some extra clock speeds if he changes his mind later. I imagine it would work fine to clock the 4790K to its stock turbo speed "for all cores." With a 4790K, it almost seems a waste of time and effort for an extra 300Mhz. What you could do with the EVO for that, I couldn't say, and I'd pick something else for 4.5 to 4.7 Ghz.

The i7-4790K has higher clock speeds (4.0 - 4.4 GHz) than the i7-4790 (3.6 - 4.0 GHz).

 

[Puffnstuff]

If you don't care about ocing then just get the best air cooler you can and be happy. Personally I don't plan to go back to water but there's just no denying the fact that water systems cool better. You could get a peltier cooler but the last one I had, ultra chilltek, had trouble cooling my 930 with it's little 50w element.

 

[MoInSTL]

Yes, the Kraken X61 is the exception to most of the Asetek AIOs...however, it's still far, far noisier than say the TR 140 in an overclocked system (34dB vs 59dB - Ouch!) and 3X pricier for only a tiny improvement in temps and more points of failure.

You keep saying the same thing over & over. In other threads as well. There is no way I would live with 59dB. So you're waaay off. I have been a SPCR subscriber for 10 years and that means I would not tolerate that much noise. You might want to look at the numbers with their reference fans (Noctua).

I had an HR-02 Macho on my Sandy Bridge and was able to get a nice OC. This time I wanted to try something different. Something I didn't have to remove the motherboard to take out to clean.

Notice I am no knocking your choice with sarcasm and jabs. You started off saying we all get to do our own DYI and then off you went. Just lip service.

I work, I have disposable income. That means I can easily afford more fans and anything else I want to add to my system. It's not your money, so whatever.

Finally, you have no idea what my temps are anymore than you know what other fans or ambient temp conditions. "Tiny" huh? Yeah, I am starting to get the picture.

 

[ClockHound]

Sorry if you feel the poor value proposition of $140 AIO + $80 in aftermarket fans vs a $49.99 air cooler is a personal jab at your expense. It's not. It's the simple fact that a low cost air cooler can offer lower noise at much lower cost within 2-3 degrees of most AIOs is a better value proposition. That's it.

You don't seem to care about value proposition. Cool. Totally up to you.

As a longtime member of SPCR, I do appreciate their attention to low noise testing. And description of fan characteristics. However, they do not perform any overclocked testing on their nearly vintage 1366 platform. So they don't supply data for the full range of the cooler capability when overclocked.

I have no idea what your temps are in your system. Not the point. That's why we can refer to tests performed on the same test rig with a carefully controlled methodology.

The numbers I quoted were from the Tweaktown review of the TR TS140 Rev A and the Kraken X61 (stock fans) on an overclocked 4770k at 4.5Ghz.

Here they are again, from their charts:
OC At Full Load:

X61 ------ 67.33c

TR TS140A - 69.92c

2.75 degrees difference. That is a small difference, no matter your large protestations. It's the difference between a decent mount and a great one. Average TIM and great TIM.

In their noise tests at load, the results were:

TR TS140A - 34dB

X61 - 59dB

Now, that is a large difference. 25dB difference. The X61 with stock fans in this test at full load is over four times as loud as the TS140. (10dB SPL change is perceived as twice as loud)

Understand why you swapped out the stock fans for the Noctuas.

If you think I saying the same thing over and over again, I am. AIOs in general do not offer good value compared to tier 1 air coolers. They generally make way more noise, many don't even out perform the best air coolers. And another point of failure - pumps.

That you decide to take this discourse personally, is your choice. It's an internet forum, after all.

 

[Puffnstuff]

FWIW air coolers don't have water leaks :awe: which is what happened to convince me that I was done with water. Nothing like having your MCP655 pumping to the bottom of your case when the tube splits. If you do go ahead with water just make sure that your coolant is non-conductive or you could be very sorry later on. This also includes using non-conductive biocide/inhibitors in the loop.

 

[phillyman36]

FWIW air coolers don't have water leaks :awe: which is what happened to convince me that I was done with water. Nothing like having your MCP655 pumping to the bottom of your case when the tube splits. If you do go ahead with water just make sure that your coolant is non-conductive or you could be very sorry later on. This also includes using non-conductive biocide/inhibitors in the loop.

That is the reason why I'm going air cooling. I don't have any problems with my h110 but the thought of one day opening up my case a seeing liquid all over everything. No thank you.

 

[MoInSTL]

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1408-page7.html

NZXT Kraken X61 stock fans only at 1m
&#8212; 4V/590 RPM (15 dBA@1m)
&#8212; 5V/750 RPM (18 dBA@1m)
&#8212; 6V/960 RPM (24~25 dBA@1m)
&#8212; 7V/1120 RPM (29 dBA@1m)
&#8212; 9V/1450 RPM (36~37 dBA@1m)
&#8212; 12V/1940 RPM (45 dBA@1m)
NZXT Kraken X61 pump only at 1m
&#8212; ~2900 RPM (19 dBA@1m)
&#8212; ~2500 RPM (16 dBA@1m)
&#8212; ~2200 RPM (14 dBA@1m)
NZXT Kraken X61 at 1m
&#8212; pump at ~2500 RPM, fans at 4V/590 RPM (17 dBA@1m) My fan RPM is slightly higher @ 600RPM. Pump is only 2160. So less than their low 17dBA measured outside of an enclosure. Push/pull is cooler than two. Noctua is quieter & better IMO. Asus X99-a, 5820k OC to 4.6 housed in a Fractal R5 below my desk. It's not audible. Never said it was a better value. It's not. But then that's true of a lot of things based on various sigs here. I don't have a window case, but is cool looking and nice & tidy. I can get to everything easily without removing the motherboard. IMO, a real PITA and many air fins not accessible via compressed air are no doubt more clogged than most would like.The block is unobtrusive and small. I just got tired of air. I had an Asrock board warp even though it was securely mounted in a Fractal R4 with just the Macho and backplate. May have just been that board. It worked well for a Sand Bridge 2600k---a much cooler chip than Haswell-E.. I have been building my own PCs since Pentium 166 and upgraded several before that. Wanted this time to do something different. If it leaks, I can replace it all with cash on-hand. I understand that some cannot. My NAS and other drives are outside of my case & backed up.. It would suck, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Don't flatter yourself. I didn't take it personally and have been on the Internet since 9600 Baud modems. Back when one subbed to newsgroups, Not the oldest modem ever made, just the first one for me. Done with this topic.
&#8212; pump at ~2500 RPM, fans at 5V/750 RPM (20 dBA@1m)
&#8212; pump at ~2900 RPM, fans at 4V/590 RPM (19 dBA@1m)
&#8212; pump at ~2900 RPM, fans at 5V/750 RPM (21 dBA@1m)
&#8212; pump at ~2900 RPM, fans at 6V/960 RPM (25 dBA@1m)

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I think the choice would logically be influenced over the demarcation between Jumpem's system and MoInSTL's -- between the 4790K and the 5820K. [By the way-- Jumpem -- I stand corrected. Indeed that's a superb argument for getting the 4790K chip: it's pre-turbo-clocked several hundred Mhz above the non-K, and you couldn't overclock the latter to "get there."]

It almost seems a paradox that the -E chip uses the traditional fabrication method with Indium solder, and one would expect the 4790K to run hotter because of the polymer TIM under the IHS. But you almost need to OC the 5820K to make it worth the trouble and expense; you get 4.4 Ghz "on-all-cores" with minor overclocking of the DC chip, which in turn has a 95W TDP compared to the 140W 5820K. 140W would be the initial state of thermal wattage with the OC'd value being higher, more or less.

See, I'd been watching this ongoing discussion about the Devils Canyon since it was released. I'm still standing at the crossroads between the DC and the -E. And cooling choices and strategies were my primary focus.

I've now seen enough to conclude that air-cooling parts for the DC will squeeze as much blood out of the stone for any useful performance difference. With the Haswell-E, you can use a heatpipe-cooler, but you'd best start with an AiO if you want much more than stock performance. And for the -E, you need more.

 

[SystemVipers]

I love the AIO's they just seem to handle the heat better, i think it's a step up then mounting a big piece of metal on the cpu with fans, just my opinion, but it's the future..

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I love the AIO's they just seem to handle the heat better, i think it's a step up then mounting a big piece of metal on the cpu with fans, just my opinion, but it's the future..

No argument with that, until some manufacturer introduces some techno-leap for heatpipes, vapor-chamber -- whatever. They would need to prove performance to me with a comparison review to coolers I know, and their AiO equivalents.

Too much has been made of the NH-D15 and D14 for performance; enough has been said about how they fill case-space, or interfere with RAM, or make it difficult to fiddle with the motherboard. There are smaller coolers which actually exceed the Noctua options in test-beds with 100W to 130W of thermal power.

The AiO cooler forces you to either choose a case that can fit it or mod a case that you have so the AiO will fit. But they've come into their own, so to speak. Right now, my interest tends toward the Swiftech H240X. It's not exactly a closed-loop offering; it's more like a "kit" and you can expand it.

 

[Ma_Deuce]

AIOs in general do not offer good value compared to tier 1 air coolers. They generally make way more noise, many don't even out perform the best air coolers. And another point of failure - pumps.

I don't think that testing in an open air chassis is a very valid way to compare cooling results when you are trying to show the difference between AIO & air...

For me AIO is where the value is at.

-Exhaust hot air directly outside the case (making everything else in my case run cooler.)
-Very quiet
-Outperform most air coolers, especially if you aren't using an open air case...
-Can save money on case fans.

I've been using a NZXT Kraken X60 for a couple years now and it's been amazing compared to the air coolers I had used before it.