Air Force Tanker Drama Over (Boeing Wins)

[Schadenfroh]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSWEN681220100709

Here comes Boeing's bid:

"We have been able to develop an offer that meets or beats the Air Force's 372 requirements at a price that is less than our previous offer,"

May the best plane and/or the best price, win.

 

[theeedude]

Why is this still up in the air?
It's no brainer, Boeing. Just the thought of USAF using Airbuses is sickening.

 

[ichy]

Why is this still up in the air?
It's no brainer, Boeing. Just the thought of USAF using Airbuses is sickening.

The thought of the USAF simply handing a contract to Boeing is sickening. If they don't have real competition they will rip the taxpayers off to no end.

 

[hal2kilo]

This is all over the local news here in the Seattle market. Got interviews with Patty Murry, and other locals.

As much as I'm pro-union, the local Machinist and Engineer (yes, even the Engineers have a union here) unions have been pretty unreasonable and unrealistic for years. Now Boengs moved alot of work out of the state to reduce their costs to remain competative.

The WTO has already ruled that the Airbus is unfairly subsidised

Don't get me wrong. I know why I don't work on Saturday, I know why I get vacation. Never would have happened without unions.

The young snots on this forum just don't get it.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Why is this still up in the air?
It's no brainer, Boeing. Just the thought of USAF using Airbuses is sickening.

You support no-bid contracts under certain circumstances it seems, noted for the next KBR thread.

The EADS tanker will be assembled in America, by Americans. Likely most of the subcontractors will be US-based and EADS is headquartered in a NATO country, NATO countries buy nearly all of their non-domestic arms from the US.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Will the plane be assembled in the US or just the interior reworked/installed to meet the requirements?

Where in Alabama is the facilities to actually manufacture the aircraft.

Where is the A330 assembled? Not in the US but in Europe - so the manufacturing jobs that would go to Washington State will go to France/Germany. :thumbsdown:

Now if they were to build a manufacturing plant in the US for the airframe and engines, then I would have no concerns.

 

[theeedude]

You support no-bid contracts under certain circumstances it seems, noted for the next KBR thread.

The EADS tanker will be assembled in America, by Americans. Likely most of the subcontractors will be US-based and EADS is headquartered in a NATO country, NATO countries buy nearly all of their non-domestic arms from the US.

It's still European. For national security, we need American.

 

[John P]

NM

 

[hal2kilo]

You want to back that up with some facts? Or are you just going with all the propoganda Boeing puts out to the media during contract negotiations? Trust me, Boeing knows how to play that game.

As I recall, the last time the mechanics went on strike it was mainly to save the pension and medical for new hires (people who were not even hired yet) and to prevent the outsourcing of a bunch of jobs to outside vendors. Basically people looking out for their union brothers, not even themselves. Boeing would have you think they went on strike because they were greedy and wanted more money, not the case..... There's always a LOT more to it than what's printed in the mainstream press.

I'm sure there was some spin the Boeing management, on the other hand why are union workers the only ones that think they should be excluded for the medical, and co-pay increases that everyone else has had to do for years.

As for pensions, phifff! Good luck on collecting. Most companies these days got out of the defined benefit business long ago. At least I get to watch my own investments go down 40% and still have 60% left vice an empty promise that will probably end of being paid for by the taxpayers because most corportations are dead beats when it comes to pensions.

 

[OutHouse]

For our government to be even considering using foreign jets in our military is just disgusting. whats next we start using Russian tanks because General Dynamics over priced the M1 Abrams?

 

[Schadenfroh]

For our government to be even considering using foreign jets in our military is just disgusting.

We have been using foreign military equipment for a long time, since the revolution. The main gun in the M1 Abrams was (might still be) manufactured in Germany. The latest UH60 (Blackhawk) is probably nearly as foreign as it is domestic, with portions of it being manufactured in Poland and Israel (about 1/2 of this board considers it a terrorist state).

The Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle is manufactured by one of the owners of EADS (BAE Systems):

European owned, baby!

The successor to the M16 rifle will likely be designed and manufactured by Heckler & Koch (German firm).

It goes on and on...

 

[ichy]

For our government to be even considering using foreign jets in our military is just disgusting. whats next we start using Russian tanks because General Dynamics over priced the M1 Abrams?

Yes.

Have you noticed how every major military procurement program turns into a multi-billion dollar fiasco? The rest of the world buys our weapons, there's no reason for us not to buy some of theirs. Look at how many European countries fly F-16s.

 

[CaptnKirk]

1) Airbus (EADS) Design Center in Mobile, AL
http://www.reliableplant.com/Read/4951/airbus-opens-engineering-center-in-mobile,-alabama

2) Projected Assembly Facility in Mobile, Al
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-Airbus-Planning-Alabama-Plant-If-It-Wins-Tanker-Contract.aspx

Initially, they may make the empty structure airframe aircraft in Europe, fly it into the US, and add the internal tanks and equipment,
then begin making the second generation aircraft itself here as well they would have to get the contract first
for the retrofit of inported airframes in order to reach the build airframe here goal later.

Boeing plans to build some assembly line in Chareslton, SC for something - whether it's a second plant for 787's or tankers,
but primarily it's a dodge around Union workers in a 'Right-to-Work' Non-Union State.
The South has no history of workers that have any knowledge of how to build airplanes, it willl take 4+ years per person trained to acheive the skill level to allow them to be competent in their airframe work.
They can become 'Beginners' after 90 days of training, and Associates (OJT) until they have at least 1 1/2 Years,
and then another 1 - 2 years working with Lead Mechanics to expend their skills to a level of capability where they
really know what to do when working to assemble structurally critical components.
Just writing something down and expecting them to perform will not get the job done correctly.

http://www.boeingjobscharleston.com/
and
http://www.boeing.com/careers/jobsEvents.html

 

[ElFenix]

The Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle is manufactured by one of the owners of EADS (BAE Systems):

European owned, baby!

BAE used to be co-owner of airbus with EADS but sold its interest just after the big A380 delays were announced.

 

[CanOWorms]

The airplane is the primary component of the project and not able to be replaced without scrapping the entire project. Other components may be replaced to less difficulty. Why would the primary component be manufactured and designed in a foreign land which we will be at war with in the coming future?

When we launch a missiles strike on France and destroy the Eiffel Tower, are they still going to be supply us with airplanes? Of course not.

 

[CaptnKirk]

The airplane is the primary component of the project and not able to be replaced without scrapping the entire project. Other components may be replaced to less difficulty. Why would the primary component be manufactured and designed in a foreign land which we will be at war with in the coming future?

When we launch a missiles strike on France and destroy the Eiffel Tower, are they still going to be supply us with airplanes? Of course not.

But what if they launch the Eifflel Tower at us before we are prepared? Do we have the defensive weapons
to intercept the Eiffel Tower when it is in flight? I think we don't - and that means the Eiffel Tower will re-enter and destroy us!
Maybe we can use Freedom Fries to protect us from the French and their fries.

Boeing has outsourced all of the structural sub-components and sub-assemblies to other manufacturers,
and they have since become nothing more than a final assembly shop, not even in control of their own products.
Parts made in Japan, Korea, Mexico, Arcturus, and other exotic far away, foreign places.

 

[CanOWorms]

But what if they launch the Eifflel Tower at us before we are prepared? Do we have the defensive weapons
to intercept the Eiffel Tower when it is in flight? I think we don't - and that means the Eiffel Tower will re-enter and destroy us!
Maybe we can use Freedom Fries to protect us from the French and their fries.

Hopefully future presidents will take Obama's lead. Then we would be prepared.

Boeing has outsourced all of the structural sub-components and sub-assemblies to other manufacturers,
and they have since become nothing more than a final assembly shop, not even in control of their own products.
Parts made in Japan, Korea, Mexico, Arcturus, and other exotic far away, foreign places.

Exactly. Those are the types of things which should be sent to overseas, even a future enemy. Many of those can be stored or replaced to much less difficulty. An entire aircraft cannot be easily stored nor can it be easily replaced.

 

[Zorba]

The best thing about EADS bidding is that it'll force Boeing to significantly lower their prices, which is better for all of us, except Boeing share holders (like myself ).

Now that EADS has made Boeing slash its margins, Boeing will have less cash to invest in the next competition. So even if EADS proposed a paper airplane for $1B each, they already have a good strategic victory, they will probably easily pay for the cost of putting the bid together many times over.

 

[Fenixgoon]

The best thing about EADS bidding is that it'll force Boeing to significantly lower their prices, which is better for all of us, except Boeing share holders (like myself ).

Now that EADS has made Boeing slash its margins, Boeing will have less cash to invest in the next competition. So even if EADS proposed a paper airplane for $1B each, they already have a good strategic victory, they will probably easily pay for the cost of putting the bid together many times over.

all the projects are horribly underbid anyway. the only thing lowering your bid does is raise the amount of overshoot.

 

[Brovane]

Who else hear would think it would be hilarious if Ukraine based Antonov gets the contract over Boeing and EADS?

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/213660.asp

I don't think they really stand a chance. However if they bid a significantly lower price than Boeing and EADS which might happen. However at the end politics would rule this out.

 

[ElFenix]

But what if they launch the Eifflel Tower at us before we are prepared? Do we have the defensive weapons
to intercept the Eiffel Tower when it is in flight? I think we don't - and that means the Eiffel Tower will re-enter and destroy us!
Maybe we can use Freedom Fries to protect us from the French and their fries.

we can't allow an eiffel tower gap!

 

[JTsyo]

1) Airbus (EADS) Design Center in Mobile, AL
http://www.reliableplant.com/Read/4951/airbus-opens-engineering-center-in-mobile,-alabama

2) Projected Assembly Facility in Mobile, Al
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-Airbus-Planning-Alabama-Plant-If-It-Wins-Tanker-Contract.aspx

Initially, they may make the empty structure airframe aircraft in Europe, fly it into the US, and add the internal tanks and equipment,
then begin making the second generation aircraft itself here as well they would have to get the contract first
for the retrofit of inported airframes in order to reach the build airframe here goal later.

Boeing plans to build some assembly line in Chareslton, SC for something - whether it's a second plant for 787's or tankers,
but primarily it's a dodge around Union workers in a 'Right-to-Work' Non-Union State.
The South has no history of workers that have any knowledge of how to build airplanes, it willl take 4+ years per person trained to acheive the skill level to allow them to be competent in their airframe work.
They can become 'Beginners' after 90 days of training, and Associates (OJT) until they have at least 1 1/2 Years,
and then another 1 - 2 years working with Lead Mechanics to expend their skills to a level of capability where they
really know what to do when working to assemble structurally critical components.
Just writing something down and expecting them to perform will not get the job done correctly.

http://www.boeingjobscharleston.com/
and
http://www.boeing.com/careers/jobsEvents.html

Experienced people might be willing to relocated but being SC, it might cut down applicants.

 

[HumblePie]

we can't allow an eiffel tower gap!

Calm down, we have Cobra Commander with his eiffel tower eating bomb.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Experienced people might be willing to relocated but being SC, it might cut down applicants.

I know some who are going there, but as Job Shoppers to avoid pay cuts.
Production workers will be minimally trained and get bottom pay.


WORMS -
Those are the types of things which should be sent to overseas, even a future enemy.

Sure, lets outsorce a few thousand more jobs to stiffle the economic recovery.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

That isnt stopping the B52's that are scheduled to be in service until 2045. Or how about the C-130s? Those are also 1950s designs.

Thank you. Newer doesn't always mean better.