Ailing man 'had enough'

[Whaspe]

A sickly Marcel Tremblay consumed two beers, two shrimp and a crab cake at what he called "a living wake" on Friday, then went home and killed himself, sparking a countrywide debate on the right-to-die issue. Full Story

So what do you guys think? Personally I think what he did was wrong and am saddened that he felt that way. Then again, if he wants to die, who am I to stop him. In the end it is his choice and he made it, but what are the ramifications for assisted suicide.

 

[Ozoned]

There are nations that are currently experimenting with euthanasia, both voluntary and involuntary. Why not let them succeed or fail before entertaining the notion in Canada or the US ?? That is what I think.
...

 

[maddogchen]

if you want to end your own life thats your choice, but please don't drag other people into it.

 

[Rhin0]

And I care why? As long as I don't have to pay for it I don't care.

 

[judasmachine]

i say let them die, it'll save money, and deprive the drug companies of their treating (not curing) industry.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Whaspe
A sickly Marcel Tremblay consumed two beers, two shrimp and a crab cake at what he called "a living wake" on Friday, then went home and killed himself, sparking a countrywide debate on the right-to-die issue. Full Story

So what do you guys think? Personally I think what he did was wrong and am saddened that he felt that way. Then again, if he wants to die, who am I to stop him. In the end it is his choice and he made it, but what are the ramifications for assisted suicide.

Good for him.

<----- Makes note about the use of Helium, much better than Carbon Monoxide.

 

[ntdz]

This is touchy for me. I think that if someone has a terminal illness (and ONLY terminal), should assisted suicide be allowed. They would have to be near the end of their life too.

 

[Tom]

"They would have to be near the end of their life too."


for some reason, this struck me as rather humorous..

 

[sandorski]

That was quick. Saw a news conference last night where he announced his intentions, but thought little of it. Last time someone did the same it took about a year before the deed was done.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Whaspe
A sickly Marcel Tremblay consumed two beers, two shrimp and a crab cake at what he called "a living wake" on Friday, then went home and killed himself, sparking a countrywide debate on the right-to-die issue. Full Story

So what do you guys think? Personally I think what he did was wrong and am saddened that he felt that way. Then again, if he wants to die, who am I to stop him. In the end it is his choice and he made it, but what are the ramifications for assisted suicide.

Good for him.

<----- Makes note about the use of Helium, much better than Carbon Monoxide.

I've heard some horror stories about miserable failed attempts with helium. I suspect that carbon monoxide, CO, is still the most convenient way to go. CO is all the rage in Japan, where the kids are killing themselves using those tiny portable charcoal BBQs. When charcoal is burned it gives out very high concentrations of CO.

 

[Whaspe]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

I've heard some horror stories about miserable failed attempts with helium. I suspect that carbon monoxide, CO, is still the most convenient way to go. CO is all the rage in Japan, where the kids are killing themselves using those tiny portable charcoal BBQs. When charcoal is burned it gives out very high concentrations of CO.

If it comes straight down to killing practises CO has it's problems too, both methods are going to rob the brain of oxygen and it will shut down (you faint), now if you have inhaled enough CO then you're hooped even if the bag falls off in the process as CO has 4x's the binding affinity for hemoglobin as oxygen whereas helium is an inert gas meant to fill the lungs and exclude oxygen. But neither is as effective as injecting KCl into your blood as the ion concentration will shut down your heart and cause massive fluxes in osmotic gradients. This provides one problem with wanting to kill yourself, better make sure it's definate or you leave a vegetable for society to deal with and they're not pleasant (my wife is a nurse who has two failed CO suicide patients in her care). It's sad. In the end we should be looking at ways to work with people in these depressive states of mind, as in the end it is the state of the mind which is really the problem, not the physical ailment.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Whaspe

Originally posted by: aidanjm

I've heard some horror stories about miserable failed attempts with helium. I suspect that carbon monoxide, CO, is still the most convenient way to go. CO is all the rage in Japan, where the kids are killing themselves using those tiny portable charcoal BBQs. When charcoal is burned it gives out very high concentrations of CO.

If it comes straight down to killing practises CO has it's problems too, both methods are going to rob the brain of oxygen and it will shut down (you faint), now if you have inhaled enough CO then you're hooped even if the bag falls off in the process as CO has 4x's the binding affinity for hemoglobin as oxygen whereas helium is an inert gas meant to fill the lungs and exclude oxygen. But neither is as effective as injecting KCl into your blood as the ion concentration will shut down your heart and cause massive fluxes in osmotic gradients. This provides one problem with wanting to kill yourself, better make sure it's definate or you leave a vegetable for society to deal with and they're not pleasant (my wife is a nurse who has two failed CO suicide patients in her care). It's sad. In the end we should be looking at ways to work with people in these depressive states of mind, as in the end it is the state of the mind which is really the problem, not the physical ailment.

I find it cruel that people are forced to resort to painful, or unreliable methods of self-deliverance because they aren't able to get assistance from a dr. I agree it's the state of mind that's the problem.

 

[Whaspe]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Whaspe

Originally posted by: aidanjm

I've heard some horror stories about miserable failed attempts with helium. I suspect that carbon monoxide, CO, is still the most convenient way to go. CO is all the rage in Japan, where the kids are killing themselves using those tiny portable charcoal BBQs. When charcoal is burned it gives out very high concentrations of CO.

If it comes straight down to killing practises CO has it's problems too, both methods are going to rob the brain of oxygen and it will shut down (you faint), now if you have inhaled enough CO then you're hooped even if the bag falls off in the process as CO has 4x's the binding affinity for hemoglobin as oxygen whereas helium is an inert gas meant to fill the lungs and exclude oxygen. But neither is as effective as injecting KCl into your blood as the ion concentration will shut down your heart and cause massive fluxes in osmotic gradients. This provides one problem with wanting to kill yourself, better make sure it's definate or you leave a vegetable for society to deal with and they're not pleasant (my wife is a nurse who has two failed CO suicide patients in her care). It's sad. In the end we should be looking at ways to work with people in these depressive states of mind, as in the end it is the state of the mind which is really the problem, not the physical ailment.

I find it cruel that people are forced to resort to painful, or unreliable methods of self-deliverance because they aren't able to get assistance from a dr. I agree it's the state of mind that's the problem.

The problem with assistance is that killing someone goes against the principle of the medical profession, destroying life does not fix the problem, albeit there is always going to be some doctor out there who wouldn't have a problem with it (no doctor said Tremblay had mental problems which would have prevented him from carrying out his plan). But doctors are trained to save lives, or at the very least ease the passing in situations where a cure hasn't been found. To that end our methods of paliative care could be reveiwed such that someone isn't "forced" to live due to modern medicine but could die in a relaxed, passive, and natural way. You're right that it is cruel for people to feel forced to resort to painful or unreliable methods.

 

[Ozoned]

Educate yourself

History is a very good teacher.

 

[Whaspe]

"Experience in The Netherlands, where there has been relatively little effort to improve pain and symptom treatment, suggests that legalization of physician-assisted suicide might weaken society's resolve to expand services and resources aimed at caring for the dying patient. (Foley, 1995; Hendin, 1994)" ... from "Treatment of Pain at the End of Life: A Position Statement from the American Pain Society"

Exactly

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Educate yourself

History is a very good teacher.

We are committed to the fundamental belief that the intentional killing of another person is wrong.

Yah, that's going to be an unbiased website!

 

[daveymark]

I just don't see how something like euthanasia can be regulated. What would be the prerequisites, and how would you prove them? So if you have cancer, and say you're in pain, does that give you the right to do it? pain is subjective. The potential for abuse is also there as well. It's definitely touchy when you're dealing with a human life.

 

[Grunt03]

good for him.
its far from being over, the lawyers, the judges, doctors everyone will want to jump in on this one.

 

[flawlssdistortn]

man, i am gonna be sick...

 

[arsbanned]

Until you've witnessed someone being slowly consumed by Lou Gehrig's disease, or one equally as horrifying- you don't have the necessary experience to make an informed opinion.
This is an interesting case though.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: ntdz
This is touchy for me. I think that if someone has a terminal illness (and ONLY terminal), should assisted suicide be allowed. They would have to be near the end of their life too.

That's the way it is in Oregon right now(the only state with legalized assisted suicide, F you Ashcroft); you have to be terminal, less than 6 months left, etc. It seems to work very well, IMHO.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Until you've witnessed someone being slowly consumed by Lou Gehrig's disease, or one equally as horrifying- you don't have the necessary experience to make an informed opinion.
This is an interesting case though.

Just your attempt to set your opinion above everyone else's by applying your emotional experience in lieu of logic. And, before you ask, I just returned from a relative's funeral who suffered terribly from a degenerative disease for years. Doesn't make my opinion any more or less valid than someone else's.