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Ahmed Abu Ali - plot to assassinate Bush or just a smokescreen?

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati...newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true
WASHINGTON -- A U.S. citizen held in Saudi Arabia since June 2003 plotted to assassinate President Bush and aspired to plan Al Qaeda terrorist operations, according to a federal indictment unsealed Tuesday.

Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, 23, of Falls Church, Va., did not enter a plea during an initial appearance in federal court in Alexandria, Va., but said through his lawyer that he had been tortured while in Saudi custody.

A six-count, 16-page indictment accuses Abu Ali of conspiring to kill Bush, either by getting "close enough to the president to shoot him on the street" or by detonating a car bomb. Abu Ali "obtained a religious blessing . . . to assassinate Bush," the indictment charged.

The indictment alleged that Abu Ali wanted to "become a planner of terrorist operations like Mohamed Atta and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, well-known Al Qaeda terrorists associated with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001."

Abu Ali made contacts with Al Qaeda members between September 2002 and June 2003 and received training in the use of weapons including hand grenades and other explosives, as well as in document forgery, according to the indictment. It said he discussed an assassination attempt with at least two other conspirators, one of whom gave him the religious blessing.

He also allegedly tried to make his way to Afghanistan to fight against Americans but could not get there because he was denied a visa he needed to cross through Iran, the indictment said.

Abu Ali, who faces up to 80 years in prison if convicted of all the charges, "turned his back on America and joined the cause of Al Qaeda," U.S. Atty. Paul McNulty said in a statement. "He now stands charged with some of the most serious offenses our nation can bring against supporters of terrorism."

But for all the drama of the charges in the indictment, there is little in the way of explanation or detail.

The document refers to 11 co-conspirators who were in Saudi Arabia with Abu Ali, but neither their names nor their nationalities were disclosed.

According to the indictment, at least two of the 11 were on a public Saudi government list of 19 people suspected of plotting terrorist attacks in the kingdom. The list came out days before a series of bombings in May 2003 in Riyadh killed 34 people, including nine Americans.

Abu Ali was arrested by Saudi authorities on June 9, 2003, on suspicion of involvement in the bombings. He had been studying at the University of Medina.

Court papers give no indication of how developed the alleged assassination plot against Bush was or when it was supposed to occur.

An offer to show scars

At his court hearing, Abu Ali, speaking through his lawyer, Ashraf Nubani, said he had been tortured and offered to show U.S. Magistrate Liam O'Grady scars on his back.

"He was whipped. He was handcuffed for days at a time," Nubani told the court.


O'Grady declined the offer to see the scars and assured Abu Ali that he would be safe in the custody of U.S. marshals.

Edward MacMahon, another lawyer for Abu Ali, said his client would plead not guilty.

It is not clear from the indictment how evidence against Abu Ali was gathered.

David Cole, an attorney representing Abu Ali's family in a lawsuit against the U.S. government, said the government will have difficulty making a case against Abu Ali if it relies on evidence collected while he was under duress and in Saudi custody.

"I don't think anything they gained from the 20 months he was held incommunicado would be admissible," Cole said. "The question is, do they have evidence independent of that?"

Charges against Abu Ali were contained in a grand jury indictment handed up Feb. 3. A detention hearing is scheduled for Thursday.

Appearance unexpected

Abu Ali's appearance in the U.S. was a surprise because the government had not announced plans for his return and had aggressively defended itself against the suit by Abu Ali's family, which charged that the U.S. was behind his imprisonment and should return him to this country.

In December, the judge in that case rebuffed arguments that U.S. courts had no jurisdiction in Abu Ali's confinement in a foreign country. He ordered federal lawyers to explain what role the government had played in his detention.

Earlier this month, in a highly unusual move, government lawyers sought to get the parents' suit dismissed while keeping secret both the evidence and the reason for a dismissal.

A ruling on that request has not been made, but Abu Ali's return to the U.S. may nullify the suit.

Morton Sklar, one of the family's attorneys, said bringing Abu Ali back to the U.S. is a welcome development but leaves unanswered questions about the U.S. government's role in keeping him in Saudi custody.

The practice of sending terrorism suspects to other countries where they might be tortured, known as rendition, has come under increasing scrutiny in recent months as more cases come to light.

Bringing Abu Ali back to the U.S. "was the only way [the government] could avoid getting into factual issues like the degree of U.S. involvement in his detention," said Sklar, who also is executive director of the World Organization Against Torture USA.

Abu Ali was born in Houston to Jordanian immigrants and raised in Virginia near Washington. According to accounts in The Washington Post, he was valedictorian of his class at the Islamic Saudi Academy in Alexandria. A school official could not be reached for comment.

An FBI search of his home in Falls Church shortly after his June 2003 arrest turned up Arabic audiotapes promoting violent jihad and the killing of Jews; an undated, two-page document praising Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar and the Sept. 11 attacks; a book written by Al Qaeda chieftain Ayman al-Zawahiri, which characterizes democracy as a new religion that must be destroyed by war; and a copy of Handguns magazine with a subscription label bearing the name Ahmed Ali.

So, this guy has been in custody for nearly two years and we're just now hearing about this? This reeks so badly of a smokescreen to divert the press away from the Propagannon story (as was the case with the so-called "secret tapes" released by Doug Wead - Rev. Moon fan and long-time fundraiser and friend of the Bush family...no one gets that close to the Bush family without them knowing what the person is up to.)

I am literally sickened by the tactics being pulled by this administration.

An interesting article on the paucity of evidence against Ali (and how it is reminiscent of other cases)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/22/opinion/courtwatch/main675804.shtml
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
I saw this same story on my local news last night. Its funny. . .the part about the torture and the scars. . .Straight out of OBL's terrorist operation manual. This guy is following it to the letter. When captured they are instructed to claim they were tortured and smear the names of the guards and captors. If he does have scars, they are probably self-inflicted or he had a buddy do it. Show me video. Scars prove nothing.

[Edit] Ironic thing is that if this guy really isn't a terrorist, he probably will become one by the time he goes through this ordeal.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
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Originally posted by: ahurtt
I saw this same story on my local news last night. Its funny. . .the part about the torture and the scars. . .Straight out of OBL's terrorist operation manual. This guy is following it to the letter. When captured they are instructed to claim they were tortured and smear the names of the guards and captors. If he does have scars, they are probably self-inflicted or he had a buddy do it. Show me video. Scars prove nothing.

scars proove hell of alot
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: ahurtt
I saw this same story on my local news last night. Its funny. . .the part about the torture and the scars. . .Straight out of OBL's terrorist operation manual. This guy is following it to the letter. When captured they are instructed to claim they were tortured and smear the names of the guards and captors. If he does have scars, they are probably self-inflicted or he had a buddy do it. Show me video. Scars prove nothing.

scars proove hell of alot

What exactly do they prove? They prove SOMEBODY inflicted them. . .that is all. So who? Show me video.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Too early to tell. But jump to conclusions like you usually do.
Too early to tell? It's been almost two years and still nothing!

Has there even been one person accused of being a terrorist who's gone to trial, been found guilty, and sentenced?
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Genx87
Too early to tell. But jump to conclusions like you usually do.
Too early to tell? It's been almost two years and still nothing!

Has there even been one person accused of being a terrorist who's gone to trial, been found guilty, and sentenced?

Shhh... You might hurt them.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Too early to tell? It's been almost two years and still nothing!

Has there even been one person accused of being a terrorist who's gone to trial, been found guilty, and sentenced?

I am talking about this story. When did you hear about it?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Speculation is inappropriate, investigation is warranted.
Understand that torture during interrogation is a flawed method.

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Too early to tell? It's been almost two years and still nothing!

Has there even been one person accused of being a terrorist who's gone to trial, been found guilty, and sentenced?
I am talking about this story. When did you hear about it?
Just yesterday. And, honestly, when the reporter said he's been held for 20 months I literally busted out laughing!

This administration has become a farce.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Genx87
Too early to tell? It's been almost two years and still nothing!

Has there even been one person accused of being a terrorist who's gone to trial, been found guilty, and sentenced?
I am talking about this story. When did you hear about it?
Just yesterday. And, honestly, when the reporter said he's been held for 20 months I literally busted out laughing!

This administration has become a farce.

Has become?
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: ahurtt
I saw this same story on my local news last night. Its funny. . .the part about the torture and the scars. . .Straight out of OBL's terrorist operation manual. This guy is following it to the letter. When captured they are instructed to claim they were tortured and smear the names of the guards and captors. If he does have scars, they are probably self-inflicted or he had a buddy do it. Show me video. Scars prove nothing.

scars proove hell of alot

What exactly do they prove? They prove SOMEBODY inflicted them. . .that is all. So who? Show me video.

so just to get things clear, torture does only happen when they get it on video? in otherwords there is reasonable doubt that it didnt happen so in fact it didnt happen?

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Just yesterday. And, honestly, when the reporter said he's been held for 20 months I literally busted out laughing!

This administration has become a farce.

Why would you bust out laughing if you think it is a smokescreen? I would hope your emotion would be horrified somebody who is innocent was held for 20 months.

Interesting you find holding people without reason funny.

But back to the point. If we just heard about this yesterday and he made the claims. I would think an investigation is warranted before guilt is proven.

But what fun is that, right?
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
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It's Saudi Arabia. His friend gave him scars? Yeah, the Saudi Police flowered him with milk and cookies and red wine.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Aimster
It's Saudi Arabia. His friend gave him scars? Yeah, the Saudi Police flowered him with milk and cookies and red wine.

Which brings up another point. If this is Saudi Arabia, what jurisdiction would Bush have over him?

I bet Bush even visitied personally and gave him a beating or two.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
This guy is going to jail for life. He will never see freedom again.

I don't think he did anything. His crime is being a Sultan or a BarneyFile.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Aimster
It's Saudi Arabia. His friend gave him scars? Yeah, the Saudi Police flowered him with milk and cookies and red wine.

Which brings up another point. If this is Saudi Arabia, what jurisdiction would Bush have over him?

I bet Bush even visitied personally and gave him a beating or two.

I don't think that Bush had anything to do with this. I don't trust the Saudi's much though. It would be in complete character for them to take someone we don't like and cook up a story to make them look better. Certainly an investigation is warranted, but who would do it? The Saudis?

I don't know what to believe.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Just yesterday. And, honestly, when the reporter said he's been held for 20 months I literally busted out laughing!

This administration has become a farce.

Why would you bust out laughing if you think it is a smokescreen? I would hope your emotion would be horrified somebody who is innocent was held for 20 months.

Interesting you find holding people without reason funny.

But back to the point. If we just heard about this yesterday and he made the claims. I would think an investigation is warranted before guilt is proven.

But what fun is that, right?
I found it hilarious the timing of the release of this news. Right in time to cover-up the failing SS changes he's pushing and the Propagannon scandal.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Aimster
It's Saudi Arabia. His friend gave him scars? Yeah, the Saudi Police flowered him with milk and cookies and red wine.

Which brings up another point. If this is Saudi Arabia, what jurisdiction would Bush have over him?

I bet Bush even visitied personally and gave him a beating or two.

I don't think that Bush had anything to do with this. I don't trust the Saudi's much though. It would be in complete character for them to take someone we don't like and cook up a story to make them look better. Certainly an investigation is warranted, but who would do it? The Saudis?

I don't know what to believe.

It is nice to see you wont blame the administration for this unlike others in this thread.

I guess the investigation will have to come from the media. I doubt the US or Saudi govts will bother with his claims.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
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and ofcorse innocent or not, that part of the story will not be as news worthy as the first one when the trial is actualy over so in the minds of the masses he plotted to assasinate Bush

this is how things generaly work regardless of the issue
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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I found it hilarious the timing of the release of this news. Right in time to cover-up the failing SS changes he's pushing and the Propagannon scandal.

You think Bush planned to have somebody brought back to the states and claim he was tortured? Just so he can deflect the lackluster interest he is getting on SS reform and this Gannon scandal we rarely hear about in the news?

What a world you must live in.

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
I found it hilarious the timing of the release of this news. Right in time to cover-up the failing SS changes he's pushing and the Propagannon scandal.

You think Bush planned to have somebody brought back to the states and claim he was tortured? Just so he can deflect the lackluster interest he is getting on SS reform and this Gannon scandal we rarely hear about in the news?

What a world you must live in.
No, I think the release of the news of Ali's detention was planned. An assassination plot on the U.S. president? How quickly were we informed of that alleged plot in Yemen against Bush, Sr.? Hell, Clinton launched strikes against Iraq's intelligence HQ in the wake of that. Is Bush going to launch some missile strikes at Medina?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
No, I think the release of the news of Ali's detention was planned. An assassination plot on the U.S. president? How quickly were we informed of that alleged plot in Yemen against Bush, Sr.? Hell, Clinton launched strikes against Iraq's intelligence HQ in the wake of that. Is Bush going to launch some missile strikes at Medina?

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Put you tin foil hat on imo.
 

DZip

Senior member
Apr 11, 2000
375
0
0
It must be true, I heard it on CBS. But wait, this guy could become a martyr for the Bush haters. We have lost our ability to disagree without showing disrespect. Ah what a county we live in.