AGP vs PCI Express ...... Is it really needed ?

[NightCrawler]

Has AGP reached it's limit ?

 

[Jeff7]

AGP, no. Regular PCI, yes. Especially for SCSI RAID setups, PCI's 133MB/sec isn't enough. And throw in a secondary graphics adapter, and your PCI bus might start crying "uncle".

 

[NightCrawler]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
AGP, no. Regular PCI, yes. Especially for SCSI RAID setups, PCI's 133MB/sec isn't enough. And throw in a secondary graphics adapter, and your PCI bus might start crying "uncle".

So could we keep AGP longer and move the PCI to PCI Express ?

I just don't get why their moving so fast to pci x and dumping AGP.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
So could we keep AGP longer and move the PCI to PCI Express ?

I just don't get why their moving so fast to pci x and dumping AGP.

What's not to get? It's better, so the graphics industry will move there. Sure, they might push people to move a little faster than they need to, but that's just the nature of the industry. They always push adoption of things you don't need.

But, eventually AGP would move to PCIe, so why not now?

 

[buleyb]

there are benifits to the immediate jump, for example, its easier to layout PCI-Ex traces than PCI and AGP...the wonders of serial tech

Also, typically the adjustment periods end up lasting too long and creating support/testing issues for companies. Its really in everyone's best interest, but ours

I'm all for it, because when I get around to getting a rig with PCI-E on board, I'll probably want/need a new vid card anyway.

 

[paperfist]

Not good for upgraders though since PCI-E isn't compatible with current PCI cards. I know, I know who has PCI cards these days with everything intergraded into the motherboard

 

[Tab]

Depends what you consider needed

nVidia PCI-Express Summary

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: paperfist
Not good for upgraders though since PCI-E isn't compatible with current PCI cards. I know, I know who has PCI cards these days with everything intergraded into the motherboard

However, one of the specific design goals of PCI-E was to make tacking regular PCI slots onto it fairly painless for motherboard manufacturers. You'll likely see PCI-E graphics/PCI-E and PCI expansion motherboards for a long while yet, as well as AGP graphics/PCI-E and PCI expansion motherboards. Intel may be going the "We're only supporting PCI-E" route, but not everybody uses their chipsets.

 

[lansens]

Will PCIe be backward compatible with the current PCI?

 

[JBT]

AGP has no way reached it limits but the PCI bus has... so if this can improve performance performance for graphics and other I/O's why not?

 

[BD231]

Why the hell is everyone looking at PCI E as a graphics interface upgrade??????

When you have Hard Drives capeable of 80+ mbps burst rate and an interface providing only 133mbs of bandwidth to multiple devices you obviously need an upgrade.

The AGP question is silly, AGP has in no way reached its limit. This is why you've seen posts of people saying you don't need anything more than a 2x AGP slot for the PAST 5 YEARS.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: lansens
Will PCIe be backward compatible with the current PCI?

See above response. Not directly, but it is possible to have both PCIe and regular PCI on the same motherboard without too much difficulty.

 

[ElFenix]

agp extended the life of pci but with gigabit ethernet and uberfast hard drive arrays pci-e is sorely needed

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: lansens
Will PCIe be backward compatible with the current PCI?

See above response. Not directly, but it is possible to have both PCIe and regular PCI on the same motherboard without too much difficulty.

PCI-Express is to PCI what PCI was to ISA.

Originally posted by: NightCrawler

So could we keep AGP longer and move the PCI to PCI Express ?

I just don't get why they're moving so fast to pci x and dumping AGP.

Just so you know, PCI-X is another standard out there, but I think it's a resident in the server arena.

 

[tweeve2002]

When they go to PCI Express they plan on making a PCIe 16x for Video and it would be somethning like twice as fast as 8X AGP.

 

[TiziteLayinLow]

pci-x x16 will be 8gbps

8x agp is 1.07gbps

extreme difference, now lets just hope ATi or Nvidia can make a card hit the max of this new slot.

 

[buleyb]

there actually might be a noticable speed improvement when PCI-E gets going, only because the 2-way high speed data path to the CPU and main memory might lead to an improvement to CPU bound programs...just thinking here though...

 

[OverVolt]

Originally posted by: TiziteLayinLow
pci-x x16 will be 8gbps

8x agp is 1.07gbps

extreme difference, now lets just hope ATi or Nvidia can make a card hit the max of this new slot.

dual DDR400 = 6.4gbps, whats the use in having a graphics bus faster than the memory bus?

 

[Snooper]

So why in the WORLD would even THINK about today's memory bandwidths when you are designing the next generation interface??? This thing will be around for at least 5 years and probably closer to 10 years. Who knows how fast our memory will be in 10 years. Or even 5 years. QDR II anyone???

 

[UlricT]

A related question:

As we are getting x16 and x4 slots, these could be used for something like HDD controllers that can handle 16 HDDs in RAID??? Or can x16 be used only for grphics?

/EDIT: Another question would be as to whether PCi-E x1 gfx cards will be available as a secondary card. This actually brings up the possibility of SLI again, doesn't it?

 

[ViRGE]

x16 can be used for anything, which is one of the advantages of PCI-E over AGP(which by definition is graphics only).

 

[UlricT]

Another question would be as to whether PCi-E x1 gfx cards will be available as a secondary card. This actually brings up the possibility of SLI again, doesn't it? I think x1 cards are 0.5gbps ~= AGP 4x?

 

[ViRGE]

AGP 4x is 8gigabits/second, not .5; someone got bytes and bits mixed up. Anyhow, yes, SLI is a possibility since the cards can once again use the same kind of interface, but I don't know how bandwidth differences between 4x and 16x will make a difference(no one will use 1x for a graphics card).

 

[Sideswipe001]

This is also going to be nice for cooling issues. You will be able to use whatever PCI-Express slot you want for your graphics card, rather than having it plugged right up top there by the CPU. Sheesh, why complain? It's a faster bus. There is no more need to seperate out graphics cards. The next time you upgrade just get the PCI Express version.

 

[ViRGE]

Actually, you won't. The 16x slot will still be at the top in ATX cases. That said, BTX moves everything around, so the issue is moot anyhow.