Ageia to debut PhysX "physics processing unit" for gamers

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
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Over the years we?ve seen the hardware for games develop from being mere novelties on a normal, business-oriented home PC to a full fledged multi-billion dollar industry. As the gaming industry began to separate itself from the rest of the PC world, the same thing happened with the PC hardware needed to run them. Starting with Quake, games started to go from 2D parlor games to the immersive, 3D games we know today. However, CPU?s back then, and even CPU?s now, were not designed to be able to process the calculations common in every game today. A change had to be made. Along game a small company named 3Dfx who decided that the solution was a separate add-in card that would have its own processor, a processor specifically designed to handle graphics calculations. Nearly everyone in the business PC industry thought they were morons for thinking that anyone would pay $300-$400 for a card just so they could make their games prettier, however, history has proved these critics wrong.

Flash forward a couple of years. Creative decides that the sound quality on most motherboards is pretty lacking, especially when it comes to processing sound for games. So they design their own card, built specifically to mix the various sounds produced in games, and providing an unparalleled audio purity. Again people thought they were nuts to think anyone would spend $50-$150 on a card that could only refine sound and unload that process from the CPU. And again, these same critics were wrong.

Let?s move forward to today. Today?s games are making more demands on video cards than any others before them, and come with sound engines that could bring some CPUs to their knees. Both video card makers and sound card makers are rolling in the profits from their so-called ?useless? technologies. But there?s another player coming to the block. Another company is building another add-in card for games that some people are already painting as unneeded. This company is Ageia, and their card is the PhysX, the world?s first dedicated physics processing unit (PPU).

Some of you may ask, "What is the point of a card like that?" Well, for most of you, there?s probably little point. Most of you have a computer system whose 3D performance is limited by the quality of your video card, not your CPU. However, for those of you with the high-end cards like 7800GTXs, you run into a distinct CPU limiting barrier. The reason is that even though video processing is offloaded to the GPU, and sound processing is sent to your sound card, it still has to calculate several other things important in any game. In any game made in the last 5 months, the most stressful part to the CPU is the physics calculations. For example, let?s look at Half-life 2. Remember how your game would drop to low FPS whenever you naded a bunch of barrels? That had nothing to due with the stress on the video card, it was the stress of calculating the physics of that action to the CPU. That?s where the Ageia PhysX PPU fits in. In instances like that, and in any other instance, the calculations needed to animate such an action would go straight to the add-in card, which in turn relieves stress from your CPU. A less stressed CPU can concentrate on other, more minor aspects required to run a game, thus giving you more CPU processing power for you game and eliminating your CPU limiting problem.

Let?s take a look at the technical specifications of this card. Here?s a quick run-down:
? 125 Million Transistors
? 20 Watt Power Consumption
? 128MB GDDR3 RAM
? 130nm process
? $199-249 MSRP
? PCI Interface

The 20 Watt power consumption on the PCI bus means that it will need an auxiliary Molex power connector. Also, the 128MB of RAM serves the same purpose on this card that it does on a graphics card, it keeps relevant information handy and quickly accessible. On a graphics card, this information is usually textures. On the PhysX card, it will be something similar, though related to physics? sort of a type of ?physics textures?.

Ageia will provide the PPU?s to major manufacturers. However, the boards themselves will be built by others, much like how nVidia sells their products. So far, BFG and Asus have both signed agreements to produce these cards. It is designed for the time being to use the older PCI interface, but PCI-E 1x or maybe even 4x cards are planned in the future.

http://hardware.gotfrag.com/portal/story/29946/


If you already have a PhysX card, you can download the driver from here.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
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If this becomes sucessful, I am sure we can Just wait a few years and you will see an add on processor board fo Artificial Intelligence to follow next. I am wondering if quantum physics can run on the Ageia?
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
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I'll wait to see whether dual-core support arrives for new games first.

However, for those of you with the high-end cards like 7800GTXs, you run into a distinct CPU limiting barrier. ... In any game made in the last 5 months, the most stressful part to the CPU is the physics calculations.
Because of lack of parallel processing support in existing physics libraries. In most games the second core is idling at 10% load while the other core is pegged at 100%.
 

n7

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2004
21,281
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Damnit, why only for PCI initially? :/

Most good mobos now have like no PCI slots, & yet no one will make anything for PCI-e 1x/4x :(
 

Bluestealth

Senior member
Jul 5, 2004
434
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Considering the computers that this is going to end up in, its very funny it isnt pci-x/PCIe... What could use this but a workstation or gaming machine?
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
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I'm not buying another PCI card. I'll wait for PCIe or for Havok on SLI. I'll probably get Havok on SLI.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
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Originally posted by: Megatomic
I'm not buying another PCI card. I'll wait for PCIe or for Havok on SLI. I'll probably get Havok on SLI.

The AGIA soloution is much cheaper.
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
6
81
Ageia PPU is also coming out first on PCI which, in this day and age, should be considered a big no no. Why release a new product like this on PCI first and not PCIe? How would the world react if NV and ATI released their next gen products on AGP first and not PCIe?

And the Ageia solution will not do GPU duty when it's not busy doing PPU duty. The second 7900GT will do both in the other scenario. IMHO going the SLI route to get a PPU is a no brainer.
 

Sqube

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2004
3,078
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Wait a minute, they were serious about that?

And why the hell didn't they make one for the PCI-e x1 or x4 slot? I mean, those things are about as useful as a nipple in the palm of your hand.
 

ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
9,343
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I'd pay $300 for a b-Oxygen 8788 and PhysX in one on PCIe form... grr! :| At least it would be a single worthy purchase.
 

RaiderJ

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2001
7,582
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Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: Megatomic
I'm not buying another PCI card. I'll wait for PCIe or for Havok on SLI. I'll probably get Havok on SLI.

The AGIA soloution is much cheaper.

And it does REAL physics. The Havok on SLI option will just do "pretty" physics. The PPU is in a whole different league.

That said, the SLI physics option may be a better choice for some, even if it isn't as robust. This also gives developers more userbase as an incentive to start using physics processors in games. Can only be a good thing I hope!

As earlier mentioned, when is multi-threading going to take off? Will it be a console-only feature? :(
 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
0
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Originally posted by: RaiderJ
And it does REAL physics. The Havok on SLI option will just do "pretty" physics. The PPU is in a whole different league.

Unless you want to make games that absolutely require a PPU for anyone to play, all the PPU-based physics in the near future are going to be "pretty" physics.

As earlier mentioned, when is multi-threading going to take off? Will it be a console-only feature? :(

Consider that it takes years to develop the engines for big-name games, and until maybe a year ago, only a tiny fraction of 'desktop' systems had multiple CPU cores available. There just wasn't much incentive to make multithreaded game engines until recently.
 

Janet Reno

Member
Apr 29, 2005
104
0
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I hope these things fail miserably. :)
The more cores CPUs have, the more these things should turn into pointlessness. We're spending 300+ on CPUs now, they should be dang able to handle a little bit of physics!

The only way I'd pick one of these up is if it was about $50 and if it increased my FPS by about 20. Otherwise I'd just shell out the extra money and put in a second vid card if I'm feeling warrented to pay a friggin $250 for something(unlikely). Oh, and I need an extra PCI slot open? Hooray. Even worse.

I, personally, have a hard time seeing this as being that great.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
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Originally posted by: Janet Reno
I hope these things fail miserably. :)
The more cores CPUs have, the more these things should turn into pointlessness. We're spending 300+ on CPUs now, they should be dang able to handle a little bit of physics!

The only way I'd pick one of these up is if it was about $50 and if it increased my FPS by about 20. Otherwise I'd just shell out the extra money and put in a second vid card if I'm feeling warrented to pay a friggin $250 for something(unlikely). Oh, and I need an extra PCI slot open? Hooray. Even worse.

I, personally, have a hard time seeing this as being that great.

There is video of A P4 Dual Core with Hyperthreading (4 processors total), the physics were run on and all of the P4's cores were taxed with the anamation being very choppy. Next they ran the same simulation with the PhysX processor and it was a lot smoother.
http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/articles/2005/09/13/cedec/images/027.wmv

Here is my last thread on Ageia from October that I started, it will provide you with some samples of what PhysX can do.
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1710172&enterthread=y&arctab=y
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Dell is now shipping Ageia boards with the XPS line


Dell fires up $10,000 enthusiast PCThe XPS 600 Renegade is a limited production PC that includes everything that you may be looking for in a package that starts at $9930. At the core of the PC is a Pentium D 965 Extreme Edition processor that has been overclocked from 3.73 to 4.26 GHz. Other components include 2 GB DDR2-667 memory, a 160 GB 10,000 RPM WD Raptor as well as a second WD 400 GB 7200 RPM hard drive. The Renegade also comes with a quad-SLI system that includes four GeForce 7900 GTX graphics processors with a total of 2 GB of GDDR3 memory.

San Jose (CA) - Dell today announced the most expensive consumer PC the company has offered in several years. The XPS 600 Renegade comes with any feature a computer enthusiast could desire these days. There's a heavily overclocked dual-core Pentium processor, four graphics processors with 2 GB of memory, a standalone physics processor and a 30" display. Dell has been trying for some time to attract the attention of computer enthusiasts with its XPS series gaming PCs. Despite latest technology, the success of the high-end XPS machines has been meager and could not hide the fact that any XPS is a mass market product with limited appeal to enthusiasts.

In January, Dell announced that it would take another try to crack the gaming crowd with an extreme PC that would be closer to what enthusiasts typically buy from manufacturers such as Alienware, Voodoo PC or Falcon Northwest. This machine arrived today and is certain to gain the attention of a target group that did not take Dell seriously so far.

A unique feature, at least for now, is the integration of a discrete board with an Ageia Physx processor to enable physics processing. Dell did not provide further details and specifications of the PhysX board. Surprisingly, Dell decided to equip the system with a 650W power supply that is supported by two external 150W power supply bricks. Other enthusiast PC makers typically choose a single 850W or even a 1000W unit in quad-SLI systems.

Besides a DVD burner, a surround speaker set, and a higher-end sound card, the Renegade package also includes Dell's 35-pound 30" LCD, which offers a resolution of 2560 x 1600 pixel and a contrast ratio of 700:1.

Almost $10,000 for a PC is a lot of money and will be hard to swallow for many users - and some features may not even be attractive for hardcore gamers - such as a quad-SLI system that actually may result in less frame rate performance in some games than a single card system. But if you are looking for the best that money can buy today than even this hefty price tag could be considered a bargain: For example, comparable high-end PC from Alienware and VoodooPC check in at about $8500 - without a physics board and a 30" monitor, which currently sells for $2200 on Dell's website.

But Dell isn't interested in offering more value than Alienware & Co anyway. Expensive flagship products often have the sole purpose of improving a brand image. And it will be up to the enthusiast community to decide if the Renegade is up to the job.



http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/22/dell_xps600_renegade/
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Games will certainly need to be programmed to take advantage of this. Which games or tech demos support the add-on card? Why is there no information about prospective developers? You'd think that Carmack would be all over that if he had information needed to develop for it. That Alienware article never actually mentions that there's no way to use or demonstrate the card yet.