AG Barr continues to cover for Donald Trump instead of doing his job.

[Hayabusa Rider]

Dems won't provoke a Constitutional crisis by sending out the Sergeant at Arms. It's classic game theory. Hostage takers don't care about the hostage & Barr doesn't care about the Constitution.

Barr's bullshit is utterly unprincipled. In declaring Trump innocent of obstruction he usurps the power of judgement of Congress. It's not his call any more than it was Mueller's. In denying documents & testimony to Congress he merely extends the obstruction forward.

We're already in a Constitutional crisis because Bush exceeds his authority. Congress wouldn't. Of course people might object their way into an Imperial Executive and two lesser ones.

 

[Jhhnn]

Its already been created!

Not quite yet. When & if the Trump admin defies a federal court order we will have arrived.

Creating a confrontation between federal LEO's is dumb as fuck. The confrontation becomes the topic, not the malfeasance of Trump & his minions.

 

[zinfamous]

The "White House blasts Mueller report, says Trump can instruct advisors not to testify to Congress". Apparently, the WH Counsel sent a letter arguing this to AG Barr.

Translation? - "If someone committed a crime to whistleblow on the President, then the President's crimes cannot be counted against him."

Obviously - innocence by the guilt of others is not how it works.

so, basically: "It is now official policy that the White House can legally obstruct justice, openly and without recourse," ...according to the White House. OK, then.

 

[dank69]

so, basically: "It is now official policy that the White House can legally obstruct justice, openly and without recourse," ...according to the White House. OK, then.

So who is going to stop them?

 

[Jhhnn]

The "White House blasts Mueller report, says Trump can instruct advisors not to testify to Congress". Apparently, the WH Counsel sent a letter arguing this to AG Barr.

Translation? - "If someone committed a crime to whistleblow on the President, then the President's crimes cannot be counted against him."

Obviously - innocence by the guilt of others is not how it works.

That's some deep bullshit-

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...t-to-testify-to-congress/ar-AAAOpLw?li=AA524b

Ex- Trump insiders are free to speak their consciences if they want. Trump has no power over them. Lock them up? For what, exactly?

 

[Jhhnn]

So who is going to stop them?

When it gets this bad only the People can stop it with an election. I say that assuming that McConnell will stand with Trump when the time comes.

 

[zinfamous]

So who is going to stop them?

...sounds like a job for them 2nd amendment folks?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Not quite yet. When & if the Trump admin defies a federal court order we will have arrived.

Creating a confrontation between federal LEO's is dumb as fuck. The confrontation becomes the topic, not the malfeasance of Trump & his minions.

So throwing a coequal branch of government under the bus is ok as long as it's Congress. You also assume that federal agents are going to violate their oath and effect a coup.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Legal theory from Big-Deal Legal Scholar William Barr:

"If the president is being falsely accused, which the evidence now suggests that the accusations against him were false, and he knew they were false, and he felt that this investigation was unfair, propelled by his political opponents and was hampering his ability to govern, that is not a corrupt motive for replacing an independent counsel."

Brilliant. Too bad Bill Clinton didn't have that piece of insight available

 

[Jhhnn]

So throwing a coequal branch of government under the bus is ok as long as it's Congress. You also assume that federal agents are going to violate their oath and effect a coup.

That's not what I said at all. I said there's no way to force Barr to do anything other than via court order. If that doesn't work we'll have a Constitutional crisis & impeachment of Trump would be the only recourse. If the Senate won't remove him then there's the next election. After that there are no Constitutional remedies.

I didn't suggest anything about a coup. If Congress sends out the Sergeant at Arms for Barr & Security sends them away as he commands, then what? It's a fruitless gesture & an unnecessary distraction.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I admit how naive and credulous I was when Barr was first appointed. I read articles and heard commentary by people I at least semi-respected that said Barr is an institutionalist, he respects the norms of DOJ, he cares about his reputation, he's close personal friends with Bob Mueller, blah blah blah. I even harbored a wishful thoughts that he had deliberately bamboozled Trump into nominating him so he could come in and reveal himself to be a crusader for truth, justice, rule of law and the American way.

Boy, was I wrong.

 

[Jhhnn]

Legal theory from Big-Deal Legal Scholar William Barr:

"If the president is being falsely accused, which the evidence now suggests that the accusations against him were false, and he knew they were false, and he felt that this investigation was unfair, propelled by his political opponents and was hampering his ability to govern, that is not a corrupt motive for replacing an independent counsel."

Brilliant. Too bad Bill Clinton didn't have that piece of insight available

Rosenstein had no choice but to appoint a Special Counsel given the extent of Russian meddling he knew about & Trump saying he fired Comey over the Russia thing. A person would have to be daft not to understand that.

Once again Barr attempts to usurp the judgement of Congress making his own judgements that fly in the face of the evidence at hand.

 

[cytg111]

I dont see R ever coming back from this.. that is why they arent planning on leaving..

Legal theory from Big-Deal Legal Scholar William Barr:

"If the president is being falsely accused, which the evidence now suggests that the accusations against him were false, and he knew they were false, and he felt that this investigation was unfair, propelled by his political opponents and was hampering his ability to govern, that is not a corrupt motive for replacing an independent counsel."

Brilliant. Too bad Bill Clinton didn't have that piece of insight available

I must admit, it IS Trump level stupid... It is like ignoring the arrow of time and deduction 101.
Wait a minute ... is Trump contagious? TrumpZika(tm) .. its a thing???

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That's not what I said at all. I said there's no way to force Barr to do anything other than via court order. If that doesn't work we'll have a Constitutional crisis & impeachment of Trump would be the only recourse. If the Senate won't remove him then there's the next election. After that there are no Constitutional remedies.

I didn't suggest anything about a coup. If Congress sends out the Sergeant at Arms for Barr & Security sends them away as he commands, then what? It's a fruitless gesture & an unnecessary distraction.

It is a coup if Barr's security force oppose a lawful order in which neither they nor Barr has any say. Their actions constitute a coup. Barr can do this to Congress he can do it to SCOTUS because in principle it is exactly the same. The SCOTUS isn't entitled to any more deference or respect than Congress. So Trump/Barr say "no" to everyone. Then what?

What I do know is that if you want to embolden people you do nothing, especially when you can. If you believe that the security guards will attack the Capitol Police then the time for extralegal action is already upon us.

 

[Maxima1]

It is a coup if Barr's security force oppose a lawful order in which neither they nor Barr has any say. Their actions constitute a coup. Barr can do this to Congress he can do it to SCOTUS because in principle it is exactly the same. The SCOTUS isn't entitled to any more deference or respect than Congress. So Trump/Barr say "no" to everyone. Then what?

What I do know is that if you want to embolden people you do nothing, especially when you can. If you believe that the security guards will attack the Capitol Police then the time for extralegal action is already upon us.

It is already a coup. Barr didn't even read the report. He is all in!

 

[hal2kilo]

Look at the Trump attack dog. Looks like Flood is out of the reclusion penalty box.

White House official response to Mueller

 

[Jhhnn]

It is a coup if Barr's security force oppose a lawful order in which neither they nor Barr has any say. Their actions constitute a coup. Barr can do this to Congress he can do it to SCOTUS because in principle it is exactly the same. The SCOTUS isn't entitled to any more deference or respect than Congress. So Trump/Barr say "no" to everyone. Then what?

What I do know is that if you want to embolden people you do nothing, especially when you can. If you believe that the security guards will attack the Capitol Police then the time for extralegal action is already upon us.

Quite the rabble rouser today, huh? Dems don't want that peripheral fight so they won't go there.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It is already a coup. Barr didn't even read the report. He is all in!

The early stages of one, true. Where people are divided are with those who like Barr's actions, those who want to not stir up trouble and by default let the coup complete and those who oppose it with the use of powers legally possessed by Congress.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Quite the rabble rouser today, huh? Dems don't want that peripheral fight so they won't go there.

Barr's poodle. It figures. The overt attack on Congress is central to our way of government and the peripheral document the Congress.

 

[interchange]

Legal theory from Big-Deal Legal Scholar William Barr:

"If the president is being falsely accused, which the evidence now suggests that the accusations against him were false, and he knew they were false, and he felt that this investigation was unfair, propelled by his political opponents and was hampering his ability to govern, that is not a corrupt motive for replacing an independent counsel."

Brilliant. Too bad Bill Clinton didn't have that piece of insight available

Which is hilarious because obstructing the people from discovering what happened when their Presidential election was being interfered with because it personally hampers him is an inherently corrupt motive.

BUT

1. While Mueller did not find sufficient evidence to show a criminal conspiracy, he found significant evidence of attempts to work with the Russian government and a multitude of improper contact and crimes for Trump associates. All of these findings, while not crimes of Trump, clearly provide corrupt motivation for him to interfere with the investigation even if he knew he wouldn't be criminally implicated.
2. Trump actually hasn't been exonerated for conspiracy with Russian actors, either. Mueller's investigation clearly turned up a lot of evidence suggesting this possibility and clearly was hampered by a variety of activities and in many cases crimes committed to limit Mueller's ability to know everything that happened.
3. Trump actually was found to have committed a crime as a direct result of the probe. He's Individual 1, an unindicted co-conspirator in the investigation referred by Mueller to SDNY where Cohen plead guilty.
4. Trump may well have had several criminal findings against him as a direct result of the probe. There were what? 14 investigations? Mueller referred to other agencies as they exceeded the scope of his probe. We don't know what those were, and it's plenty likely that they involve crimes that Trump himself committed.
5. Trump clearly demonstrated that he felt that the Mueller probe was the end to his Presidency. To quote: "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m fucked". Trying to stop the investigation to protect himself is corrupt bar none.
6. The fact that people in his administration serially refused to carry out his acts because they understood them to be instructions to, for example, "do crazy shit" clearly indicates that in his attempts to obstruct the investigation it was readily understood that his requests were corrupt

 

[dainthomas]

Quite the rabble rouser today, huh? Dems don't want that peripheral fight so they won't go there.

One branch of government directly defying a lawful order from an equal branch of government is a "peripheral fight"?

Instead of testifying before Congress, Secretary Clinton could have just faxed them ten thousand middle fingers. Who knew? Will be great when a dem is president and they can just tell a Republican house to sit and spin.

 

[soundforbjt]

I can't get over Mueller letting Don Jr telling him no to testifying, I thought Mueller was going to be tougher than that. He turned out to be way less than thorough in his investigation.

 

[Jaskalas]

...No wonder Trump was so irritated with Jeff Sessions. No doubt Trump is kicking himself for not first having Barr instead of Sessions.
They are all so crooked.
Trump sure knows where to find the scum for his administration. Trump knows every swamp hole, every shit hole where these guys hang out. And Trump hires them.

Trump drained the swamp, and brought it with him to DC.

 

[Jhhnn]

I dont see R ever coming back from this.. that is why they arent planning on leaving..


I must admit, it IS Trump level stupid... It is like ignoring the arrow of time and deduction 101.
Wait a minute ... is Trump contagious? TrumpZika(tm) .. its a thing???

It *is* contagious in a way-

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/...ntry=US&blockId=most-popular&imp_id=772826414

 

[Jaskalas]

It is a coup if Barr's security force oppose a lawful order...

Quite the rabble rouser today, huh? Dems don't want that peripheral fight so they won't go there.

Hayabusa, you appear to be aiming for idealism while Jhhnn is aiming for practicalities. Jhhnn is looking towards the next election where as you'd suggest a course of action that might end up with 2016 as America's final Presidential election.