After the Muslims are all killed off...

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: TehMac
There is also to mention the millions of deaths committed by the Atheist U.S.S.R. Regimes.

Atheism isn't a religion. Atheism didn't cause Stalin to kill millions of people. It isn't the same as religions telling their followers to kill others.

 

[her209]

Scientology has killed 0 people so far.

 

[timosyy]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: TehMac
There is also to mention the millions of deaths committed by the Atheist U.S.S.R. Regimes.

Atheism isn't a religion. Atheism didn't cause Stalin to kill millions of people. It isn't the same as religions telling their followers to kill others.

It kills me that this is the atheist takeaway from religion. On the other hand, can't really blame them.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
how is this thread alive? Personal attacks, antisemitic all over the place. Not to mention just stupid ignorant and hateful posts. ATOT really sucks nowadays.

No one has posted a babe yet. You can bag Jews and call for the death of an entire class of people around here, as long as you don't show any side-boob.

 

[Casawi]

I think it is near impossible to wipe out Muslims. Muslims have been growing in number each year ever since... it is a great religion IMO. Muslims are generally the nicest people you will ever meet. I say the same thing about Americans, but people outside the US think Americans == American Government. Not the case of course....., Muslims are not what your government is telling you. Everyone that has ideologies that is not understood by the west is a terrorist.
Let's declare a war on terror... now we can blow up anybody that we label terrorist... as long we tell the public "terrorist organization" ... it is justified somehow.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
I love how the anti-Christianity zealots love to bring up the Crusades as an example of how many people have been killed in the name of that religion.

Big deal....it was 1000 years ago.

The religion TODAY that is doing all the the killing in its own name is Islam. Not Christianity. The people in the middle east who are essentially enslaved by their leaders (particularly the women) and still have medieval beliefs are MUSLIMS, not Christians.

That's all that matters. I don't know which religion has had more people killed in its name....but I DO know which religion TODAY has the most people being killed in its name.

fail

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
here's something amazing gaghalfrunt:

christians no longer go around crusading and pillaging... we're about 600 years past that. that's like saying we should give people reparations for slavery. it's utter bullshit to try and hold far history against people. hell, that's why the middle east is the shithole it is.

another fail

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: her209
Scientology has killed 0 people so far.

Incorrect

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

I didn't say that anything should be forgotten. But I don't believe comparing what's happening in todays world to things that happened 500+ years ago is apples to apples in this case.

For the record I think it's retarded when people start arguing about religion (bonus retard points for doing so over the internet) as there is no way to prove that your relgion is right or another's religion is wrong.

Oh I agree. Today's christians aren't the christians of the crusades. Practically every single one of them is light years beyond those numbskulls in terms of morality, but christianity can be traced back to those numbskulls nevertheless. You can't decouple yourself from the people and ideas that came before you, or else you might as well say you're starting your own personal religion and NOT being a christian. That's really what I'm arguing against I suppose. If god and his message are so immutably perfect and have always been, then why do his followers keep changing? The christians of the time of the crusades must have thought they were doing noble deeds or they wouldn't have kept crusading. They probably thought they were going to heaven for retaking the holy land from the heathens. Our much softer, kinder-hearted christians of today condemn the crusaders and are sure they went to hell. Do changes in religious dogma retroactively snatch souls from heaven when the zeitgeist moves on to the point that the moral majority no longer condones their actions?

BTW I like arguing about religion on the internet. I think no one will ADMIT to being wrong where everyone can see them, but they will adjust their viewpoint in response to a powerful argument regardless. I've done it myself. 😉

incorrect

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: sandorski

incorrect

Which part?

 

[Mr Smiley]

Lets kill all of the uninformed [in this thread].

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: moshquerade


I wonder if those Catholic Extremists are still tallying up deaths today like the Muslim Extremists are....

With all due respect (none) if you had even a shred of a clue you wouldn't have to "wonder" anything. I understand the need for so-called Christians to remain completely ignorant on the role of their religion on world atrocities. The only way to keep believing is to pretend that it's not happening. But most people who are so uninformed on world events would have the common sense to avoid blundering into threads to expose that fact. I say this for your own good Mosh, you DESPERATELY need to shut down ATOT once in a while and attempt to become educated on world events before attempting to debate with people who already are educated. The Vatican's role in Northern Ireland and Rwanda alone EASILY account for more deaths than Islamic terrorists. That's not a thing of the past, it's happening every day, it's happening while I type this, it's happening while you're "wonder"ing if it's happening because you're too ill-informed to KNOW it's happening.

Listen. YOU don't tell ME what to do Mr Big Ego on the Internets. Got it? Now shut up, because I am not interested in taking anything YOU tell me to heart. Ever.

You shouldn't get in an argument if you're not going to listen to the other side. You could just as well back up off the computer and go yell at your wall then. It produces the same result. No knowledge or information is exchanged.

It's also not a matter of religion, being afraid of an idea is in itself stupidity. Blaming something that in and of itself does not exist is counter-productive. Ideas do not have power. Ideas are not capable of committing atrocities. Ideas have no love, hate, malice, greed nor hubris.

People are what give ideas power. Anywhere else, under any other auspices, something like the crusades, moor invasions, islamic extremism, holocaust, etc would still happen, just under different fundamental reasons. Face it, people are douchebag covered douchebags with chewy douchebaggy cores. Ideas do not commit crimes against humanity, people do, they just use those ideas as a scapegoat for whatever inner demons possess them to do so.

I'd like to think we aren't blaming the muslims, we're blaming the people that use Islam incorrectly as a farce to back their personal hatred and ideologies. Islam does not promote these ideologies, the charismatic radical fundamentalist leaders do.

What everyone in this thread is doing is blaming the treadmill for the plane not taking off, when the root of the problem is you've got no fuel and your engines are on fire.

 

[dawp]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: sandorski

incorrect

Which part?

appearently, Bush thought we are in a crusade

Bush made the same point during his remarks at the White House. "This crusade, this war on terrorism is gonna take awhile. And the American people must be patient. I'm gonna be patient," Bush said.

and Bush wears his religion on his sleeve.

edit:
<------ P&N

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Not a problem. Your complete refusal to listen to anything resembling reason is what got you into this mess in the first place. You could educate yourself, you could hold your collection of pedophiles responsible for their atrocities and the blood on their hands, you could at least learn to stay out of threads where your ignorance is exposed so easily. But instead you just stick your fingers in your ears and scream "NYAH NYAH NYAH I'm not listening!!" at the top of your lungs. And all the while you're pretending to ignore everything I say we all know that you're seething about it and that you lack the understanding of world events to be able to fight back intelligently. You want to shut me up. You want to smack me down. You want to be able to refute all the facts I use with facts of your own. But you can't. Because you don't know any and because even if you did the facts support my position rather than your fairy tales. So lather up all you want Mosh, the lather is your anger at your leaders for doing all this crap in the first place and at yourself for lacking the fortitude to break off from a collection of criminals.

I didn't see any facts. Facts have evidence associated. I am not saying your statements aren't true but you certainly haven't linked to any evidence.

Okay, I hereby point you in the direction of every history book on earth. Are the Crusades some sort of well-kept secret? But since something isn't true unless it's online, start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade

Highlights:

Once inside the city, as was standard military practice at the time,[15] the Franks then massacred the civilians, destroyed mosques and pillaged the city.

In 1187, Saladin, Sultan of Egypt, recaptured Jerusalem, following the Battle of Hattin. After taking Jerusalem back from the Christians, the Muslims spared civilians and for the most part left churches and shrines untouched

After reaching port, Richard the Lionheart promised to leave noncombatants unharmed if the city of Acre surrendered. The brutality of an outnumbered army in a hostile land could be seen again when the city surrendered and Richard proceeded to massacre everyone, despite his earlier promise.

The Fourth Crusade was initiated in 1202 by Pope Innocent III, with the intention of invading the Holy Land through Egypt. Because the Crusaders lacked the funds to pay for the fleet and provisions that they had contracted from the Venetians, Doge Enrico Dandolo enlisted the crusaders to restore the Christian city of Zara (Zadar) to obedience. Because they subsequently lacked provisions and time on their vessel lease, the leaders decided to go to Constantinople, where they attempted to place a Byzantine exile on the throne. After a series of misunderstandings and outbreaks of violence, the Crusaders sacked the city

The Albigensian Crusade was launched in 1209 to eliminate the heretical Cathars of Occitania (the south of modern-day France). It was a decade-long struggle that had as much to do with the concerns of northern France to extend its control southwards as it did with heresy. In the end, both the Cathars and the independence of southern France were exterminated.



There were dozens of others, mostly with the same modus operandi. The Christians attacked pretty much everyone that wasn't them and exterminated whoever wasn't able to defend themselves. Feel free to educate yourself further. This is HISTORY. It's all there in black and white and the information is available to anyone with the ability to read and understand. Sadly, the very fact that the information exists is what causes Mosh and others of her ilk to get angry. They're just not mature enough to be able to get angry at the people who murdered millions in gods name, so they get mad at those of us that passed history classes instead. Odd, isn't it?

Wow you are an angry little man, I never said you were wrong, I only asked for sources.

And I was mainly asking about the 9 million vs. 1 million number.

And I am NOT going to sift through Wikipedia to find facts to back up YOUR statements.

I would also like to see the sources on the Vatican involvement in the other issues you mentioned.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: dawp

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: sandorski

incorrect

Which part?

appearently, Bush thought we are in a crusade

Bush made the same point during his remarks at the White House. "This crusade, this war on terrorism is gonna take awhile. And the American people must be patient. I'm gonna be patient," Bush said.

and Bush wears his religion on his sleeve.

edit:
<------ P&N

You're twisting what was said. Also, one person who may be part of a religion does not speak for that religion. Heads of different branches of Christianity aren't asking for Christians to declare a holy war and crusade against Islam. Bush and his war of terror are being carried out not for religious reasons, but his political reasons.

On the other hand, many Islamic attacks are being carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam.

You can argue that the end result isn't much differet, but for the scope of this conversation it is not the same. Now if the pope was to declare holy war on Jews/Muslims in the name of Christ, then that would be something else.

*edit - For the record I believe the vast majority of Muslims are probably decent people like you and me. I also believe the vast majority of Christians are as well. But right now, today there are more attrocities carried out in the name of Islam then Christianity by fanatics.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: her209
Scientology has killed 0 people so far.

Incorrect

Haha... beat me to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_McPherson

 

[alphatarget1]

this is a pretty fvcked up thread.

 

[ICRS]

Everywhere religion spreads it kills. All religions are evil. They kill in the name of their god, and they kill for their religion. Humanity won't be free until every last one of them is wiped out. Society can't advance it self as long as the shackles of religion hold us down.

Look at the crusades, look at the current middle east wars, look at what is happening in suddan, and look at nazi germany. These are all of the kills of religion, and they need to stop.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
here's something amazing gaghalfrunt:

christians no longer go around crusading and pillaging... we're about 600 years past that. that's like saying we should give people reparations for slavery. it's utter bullshit to try and hold far history against people. hell, that's why the middle east is the shithole it is.

another fail

care to explain how, rather than just saying "fail"?

 

[Gothgar]

The hate is strong in this thread....


Good goooooood, reach out with your hate!!!! Type those words of hate into the quick reply box and your transformation will be complete!

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: ICRS
Everywhere religion spreads it kills. All religions are evil. They kill in the name of their god, and they kill for their religion. Humanity won't be free until every last one of them is wiped out. Society can't advance it self as long as the shackles of religion hold us down.

Look at the crusades, look at the current middle east wars, look at what is happening in suddan, and look at nazi germany. These are all of the kills of religion, and they need to stop.

Religion isn't really the problem. Most people here are confusing things. You are making the argument that "if someone who happens to be of a particular religion kills someone else, then he killed that person on behalf of his religion" -- which is incorrect.

He could have killed because of greed (stealing something) or for some other reason. Only if a person (or organization) states that they are doing it under their religion (like bin Ladin has or during the Crusades or during the Islamic Expansion) then I think it is appropriate to say that religion is the cause.

For example, in the Washington DC area, we had a sniper who terrorized and killed many people here. It turned out the guy was a Muslim but nobody blamed Islam for this instance. Why? Because during his killing spree he never made any mention that he was killing in the name of Islam. He was just a crazy guy.

Also, I feel (and many people disagree with me on this) that there is no difference between religion and other belief systems (such as atheists, socialism etc). I have noticed that most atheist liberals treat the Constitution as if it was their Bible/Koran.

The problem isn't really with religion. It's with people who can't stand the thought that others might think differently and therefore must impose their own belief system on others.

 

[Jeff7]

Stormrider - don't waste your energy on ICRS. He's a .....troll. I can't say "recovering" because that would imply that he's getting better since his last vacation. That does not seem to be happening.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Stormrider - don't waste your energy on ICRS. He's a .....troll. I can't say "recovering" because that would imply that he's getting better since his last vacation. That does not seem to be happening.

QFT. At least our old trolls used to be entertaining sometimes, now ICRS is all we really have and he is more annoying then anything.

But I do like the hypocrisy of his statements though. Basically he blames all religion for being evil and need to be eradicated. He thinks his opinions is the only right way. And thinks that this opinion is fine. Yet when religions state that all other religions are evil and 'ours' is the only way, he thinks that is an evil thing.

 

[marvdmartian]

Originally posted by: Gothgar
The hate is strong in this thread....


Good goooooood, reach out with your hate!!!! Type those words of hate into the quick reply box and your transformation will be complete!

Sadly, the worst offenders in this thread seem to be those that are using the "quote" function. Oh, wait....... :roll:

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Not a problem. Your complete refusal to listen to anything resembling reason is what got you into this mess in the first place. You could educate yourself, you could hold your collection of pedophiles responsible for their atrocities and the blood on their hands, you could at least learn to stay out of threads where your ignorance is exposed so easily. But instead you just stick your fingers in your ears and scream "NYAH NYAH NYAH I'm not listening!!" at the top of your lungs. And all the while you're pretending to ignore everything I say we all know that you're seething about it and that you lack the understanding of world events to be able to fight back intelligently. You want to shut me up. You want to smack me down. You want to be able to refute all the facts I use with facts of your own. But you can't. Because you don't know any and because even if you did the facts support my position rather than your fairy tales. So lather up all you want Mosh, the lather is your anger at your leaders for doing all this crap in the first place and at yourself for lacking the fortitude to break off from a collection of criminals.

I didn't see any facts. Facts have evidence associated. I am not saying your statements aren't true but you certainly haven't linked to any evidence.

Okay, I hereby point you in the direction of every history book on earth. Are the Crusades some sort of well-kept secret? But since something isn't true unless it's online, start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade

Highlights:

Once inside the city, as was standard military practice at the time,[15] the Franks then massacred the civilians, destroyed mosques and pillaged the city.

In 1187, Saladin, Sultan of Egypt, recaptured Jerusalem, following the Battle of Hattin. After taking Jerusalem back from the Christians, the Muslims spared civilians and for the most part left churches and shrines untouched

After reaching port, Richard the Lionheart promised to leave noncombatants unharmed if the city of Acre surrendered. The brutality of an outnumbered army in a hostile land could be seen again when the city surrendered and Richard proceeded to massacre everyone, despite his earlier promise.

The Fourth Crusade was initiated in 1202 by Pope Innocent III, with the intention of invading the Holy Land through Egypt. Because the Crusaders lacked the funds to pay for the fleet and provisions that they had contracted from the Venetians, Doge Enrico Dandolo enlisted the crusaders to restore the Christian city of Zara (Zadar) to obedience. Because they subsequently lacked provisions and time on their vessel lease, the leaders decided to go to Constantinople, where they attempted to place a Byzantine exile on the throne. After a series of misunderstandings and outbreaks of violence, the Crusaders sacked the city

The Albigensian Crusade was launched in 1209 to eliminate the heretical Cathars of Occitania (the south of modern-day France). It was a decade-long struggle that had as much to do with the concerns of northern France to extend its control southwards as it did with heresy. In the end, both the Cathars and the independence of southern France were exterminated.



There were dozens of others, mostly with the same modus operandi. The Christians attacked pretty much everyone that wasn't them and exterminated whoever wasn't able to defend themselves. Feel free to educate yourself further. This is HISTORY. It's all there in black and white and the information is available to anyone with the ability to read and understand. Sadly, the very fact that the information exists is what causes Mosh and others of her ilk to get angry. They're just not mature enough to be able to get angry at the people who murdered millions in gods name, so they get mad at those of us that passed history classes instead. Odd, isn't it?

Wow you are an angry little man, I never said you were wrong, I only asked for sources.

And I was mainly asking about the 9 million vs. 1 million number.

And I am NOT going to sift through Wikipedia to find facts to back up YOUR statements.

I would also like to see the sources on the Vatican involvement in the other issues you mentioned.

I'd be happy to provide those sources. But first please link to a dictionary definition of every word you used so that the idiots without a vocabulary of their own can follow along.

Do your own homework Zippy. And if you're so ignorant and disconnected from events in the world stay out of threads where you might need that knowledge. And on the off chance that you're not just talking out of your ass and you really do want to learn something useful, read up on Rwanda and Northern Ireland. Both current and recent events where the Vatican is sponsoring, encouraging, financing and participating in religious exterminations.