After milling around Best Buy today a bit, I'm starting to consider a Plasma

[mshan]

If black levels are of upmost importance, have you looked at the Pioneer Kuro plasma?

The brands that always seem to be recommended in these forums are Sony and Samsung (A550 series and up) for LCD, and Panasonic and Pioneer for Plasma.

From what I've read, there is subtle improvement each year, so you should start with this year's models as your baseline, then see if perceptible differences, if any, are worth the extra money from a previous year release.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: mshan
If black levels are of upmost importance, have you looked at the Pioneer Kuro plasma?

The brands that always seem to be recommended in these forums are Sony and Samsung (A550 series and up) for LCD, and Panasonic and Pioneer for Plasma.

From what I've read, there is subtle improvement each year, so you should start with this year's models as your baseline, then see if perceptible differences, if any, are worth the extra money from a previous year release.

As much as I would like to, I can't afford a Kuro.

 

[aphex]

Price breakdown for anyone bored enough to look 🙂

http://web.me.com/josh.h/pics/tvprices.jpg

 

[ZetaEpyon]

I was in the same situation; wanted a Kuro, but couldn't realistically afford one.

I ended up getting the 46" Samsung (650) from Amazon, and have been largely happy with it. The black levels have been perfectly fine for me after adjusting the settings on the display (backlight level particularly). I don't watch in a completely black room, so your own viewing environment is definitely a difference to consider.

Is the Samsung perfect? No, of course not. Off-angle viewing isn't as great as I'd like it to be; it's usually not a problem when I'm watching by myself, but if I'm doing something else in the room and just casually watching, it can be a little annoying. I also noticed some color issues yesterday while watching football. However, I think that may be more to do with the channels than the set itself. Most channels looked perfect, and other sources (PS3 and HTPC) look pristine as well. I also really do not like the remote and GUI, but I don't have to use the GUI much, and I intend to replace the remote at some point with a Harmony or some such.

I do sort of wish that I had put down a couple hundred more and gotten the 52", but I still think it would be too large for my apartment. The 46" was almost uncomfortable to watch when I first got it (coming from a 26"), but now that I'm more used to it, it doesn't feel that way.

I think that regardless of what you pick, out of the options you listed, you'll be happy with your purchase after some basic adjustments.

 

[kalrith]

Here's a 10%-off coupon at Best Buy that expires 9/30 that you can use toward almost any TV over $799. Be sure to use your rewards card when you make your purchase. I got $55 in rewards certificate when I bought my plasma at BB. You might be able to find a double- or triple-point coupon as well.

Also, if you're torn between the LCD and plasma, why not choose the one that's $450 cheaper? I know that LCDs have closed the gap a lot in PQ, but I don't think they've closed the gap in price/performance for larger models; you still have to pay more to get the same (or close to the same) PQ.

I was lucky enough to get a Pioneer Kuro 5080 for $1900 at BB last December when they had a pricing mistake. I haven't regretted the purchase one time.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: kalrith
Here's a 10%-off coupon at Best Buy that expires 9/30 that you can use toward almost any TV over $799. Be sure to use your rewards card when you make your purchase. I got $55 in rewards certificate when I bought my plasma at BB. You might be able to find a double- or triple-point coupon as well.

Also, if you're torn between the LCD and plasma, why not choose the one that's $450 cheaper? I know that LCDs have closed the gap a lot in PQ, but I don't think they've closed the gap in price/performance for larger models; you still have to pay more to get the same (or close to the same) PQ.

I was lucky enough to get a Pioneer Kuro 5080 for $1900 at BB last December when they had a pricing mistake. I haven't regretted the purchase one time.

Thanks, yea that's the coupon I was checking out over at SD. Check my Pricing post just a few posts up, I did a rundown of all the price differences.

Also, I wasn't sure if the 10% off coupon will work on the Samsung Plasma since it includes a free Blu-Ray player, but was told by an associate it would (guess we'll see if I try and buy it).

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: kalrith
Here's a 10%-off coupon at Best Buy that expires 9/30 that you can use toward almost any TV over $799. Be sure to use your rewards card when you make your purchase. I got $55 in rewards certificate when I bought my plasma at BB. You might be able to find a double- or triple-point coupon as well.

Also, if you're torn between the LCD and plasma, why not choose the one that's $450 cheaper? I know that LCDs have closed the gap a lot in PQ, but I don't think they've closed the gap in price/performance for larger models; you still have to pay more to get the same (or close to the same) PQ.

I was lucky enough to get a Pioneer Kuro 5080 for $1900 at BB last December when they had a pricing mistake. I haven't regretted the purchase one time.

Thanks, yea that's the coupon I was checking out over at SD. Check my Pricing post just a few posts up, I did a rundown of all the price differences.

Also, I wasn't sure if the 10% off coupon will work on the Samsung Plasma since it includes a free Blu-Ray player, but was told by an associate it would (guess we'll see if I try and buy it).

I did see your pricing list, and that's why I posted the coupon. You only listed 10% off of the Samsung plasma when you should be able to get 10% off all of the BB TVs on your list. IMO the Panny 50" plasma at $1530 before tax is the best choice on the list.

Also, I seriously doubt they'll let you get both the 10%-off and free-Blu-Ray deals. The free Blu-Ray player is probably part of their HD Advantage, which is specifically excluded on the coupon.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: kalrith

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: kalrith
Here's a 10%-off coupon at Best Buy that expires 9/30 that you can use toward almost any TV over $799. Be sure to use your rewards card when you make your purchase. I got $55 in rewards certificate when I bought my plasma at BB. You might be able to find a double- or triple-point coupon as well.

Also, if you're torn between the LCD and plasma, why not choose the one that's $450 cheaper? I know that LCDs have closed the gap a lot in PQ, but I don't think they've closed the gap in price/performance for larger models; you still have to pay more to get the same (or close to the same) PQ.

I was lucky enough to get a Pioneer Kuro 5080 for $1900 at BB last December when they had a pricing mistake. I haven't regretted the purchase one time.

Thanks, yea that's the coupon I was checking out over at SD. Check my Pricing post just a few posts up, I did a rundown of all the price differences.

Also, I wasn't sure if the 10% off coupon will work on the Samsung Plasma since it includes a free Blu-Ray player, but was told by an associate it would (guess we'll see if I try and buy it).

I did see your pricing list, and that's why I posted the coupon. You only listed 10% off of the Samsung plasma when you should be able to get 10% off all of the BB TVs on your list. IMO the Panny 50" plasma at $1530 before tax is the best choice on the list.

Also, I seriously doubt they'll let you get both the 10%-off and free-Blu-Ray deals. The free Blu-Ray player is probably part of their HD Advantage, which is specifically excluded on the coupon.

Well, the sales associate I spoke to said they could do it as long as I was buying the warranty (which I planned to do anyway), but we'll see if that actually comes to fruition. The HD Advantage seems to be a separate program, as this is a week long deal offered by Samsung apparently (CC has the same deal going on certain Samsung models), however it may be excluded under the 'Other Offers' portion of the coupon. We'll see.

The reason the 10% off wouldn't work on the other TV's is because all the BB prices are higher, so I would be price matching other stores to get the lower price (the price matched price is what I was showing), and I know for a fact that its hard to get to them price match AND use the coupon. The only one that the coupon is higher value than the price match is the Panasonic 80u ($1799 at BB, $1699 at CC, $1619 w/ 10% off at BB without pricematch).

I'm not expecting anything to go as planned, but with the warranty in the mix we'll see what they can do. Having worked at CC myself a few years back, when the warranty is on the table, they usually have a little wiggle room with the managers approval.

 

[aphex]

Yea for BB! Just got a pack of coupons in the mail, 12% off or double reward zone points this friday at a new store opening across the street. Worst case scenario, if the coupon won't stack, i can at least grab another $85+ in RZ Certs instead 🙂

 

[aphex]

ROCK ON! Ran into an old friend who used to work at CC with me years ago who is now working at Best Buy, gonna let me use the 10% off coupon on the Samsung 50" 550 Plasma (even though its on sale) & is gonna give me the lower warranty price since the TV is dropped into a lower extended warranty price bracket.

$1599.99 (Sale price of TV)
- $159.99 (10% off Coupon)
- $70 Reward Zone GC (from previous purchases)
-------------
$1370 (Subtotal for the TV)
+ $260 (4 year extended warranty)
-------------
$1630 (Subtotal for TV w/ Warranty)
+ 7% (Tax)
-------------
$1744 (TOTAL)

Broken up over 24 months, that's ~ $73/mo. Not bad at all. He even rang it all up through the system to make sure the coupon worked on the sale price of the TV, and it did.

Gonna go back with my wife tomorrow to order the TV. Thanks everybody!

 

[zoiks]

Awesome. Enjoy your new tv.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: zoiks
Awesome. Enjoy your new tv.

Thanks! I'll post some pics once it arrives.

 

[aphex]

Why, oh why did I go look again.

So a new BB opened up across the street tonight, I go in to check out the TV selection and there they have a 50" Samsung plasma, the store had been open all of 20 minutes ever and it already had noticeable image retention. Now, i'm sure they had the TV on before the store opened, but enough to make it that noticable? The loop playing never had a logo on the screen for more than 1-2 minutes at a time. The Panasonic next to it was fine, the Pioneer above it was fine, but the Sammy, not so good at all. Threw the Scroller up for 10 minutes, came back, still pretty bad.

Why did I do that to myself? 🙁 Contemplating sucking it up and just spending the extra $300 for the 46" Samsung 650 LCD so I don't have to worry.

 

[Rio Rebel]

I think you're pretty close to realizing the universal truth of display technology: None of them are perfect.

Figure out the things most important to you, and get as close as you can.

I have purchased 4 high def displays over the last 5 years, and they have all been entirely different based on what I required and what is important to me. Brightness of the room, whether you are playing console games, how often you will be watching standard def programming...there are all types of directions you can go and solutions that will make you happy. But there currently is not one solution that makes everyone happy.

 

[kalrith]

There are a few things to know about image retention and burn-in. First of all, they are not the same thing. Getting image retention does not at all burn the image into the phosphors. Second, it occurs largely based on the settings of the screen. Most/all TVs at BB are in "torch" mode, which is not a mode you'd want to use at home. It cranks the brightness and contrast in order to compete with the bright lights at the store. High brightness and contrast both lead to increase image retention. Third, image retention is worst when the TV is brand new. The phosphors do not have any hours on them, so if the first hour of their life is spent on a BB logo, that's 100% of their life thus far. Fourth, most/all plasmas today have pixel shift, which will shift the pixels around on the screen to greatly reduce the chances of image retention and burn-in.

Do yourself a favor and get that Samsung plasma and then follow the instructions in this thread for breaking it in. I did this with my Pio 5080 and have never had any issues with image retention even after gaming for hours. I also use gray bars when viewing 4:3 content. Then search for your specific TV on avsforum or on different review sites like CNET that post their TV settings and use those settings for your TV. They won't be perfect as though it was calibrated, but it'll be much better than just using a preset and light years better than leaving it in "torch" mode.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: aphex
Why, oh why did I go look again.

So a new BB opened up across the street tonight, I go in to check out the TV selection and there they have a 50" Samsung plasma, the store had been open all of 20 minutes ever and it already had noticeable image retention. Now, i'm sure they had the TV on before the store opened, but enough to make it that noticable? The loop playing never had a logo on the screen for more than 1-2 minutes at a time. The Panasonic next to it was fine, the Pioneer above it was fine, but the Sammy, not so good at all. Threw the Scroller up for 10 minutes, came back, still pretty bad.

Why did I do that to myself? 🙁 Contemplating sucking it up and just spending the extra $300 for the 46" Samsung 650 LCD so I don't have to worry.

I've had a 50" Samsung plasma for over a year now. I've only ever noticed image retention once and it cleared in a few minutes. Never had any problems with burn-in. It's my main TV and it sees cable, dvd's, and xbox duty. Been great so far and would recommend it to anyone. Picked it up for $800 @ Sam's Club. My brother just bought a 50" plasma at the local Sam's Club 2 weeks ago for $700. I love their TV deals. 🙂

 

[aphex]

So i've yet to buy a TV. I did order one, but promptly cancelled before it arrived. Wife and I decided to hold on until we are 100% sure.

I did notice however that BB's new service plans cover image retention/burn in on Plasmas.

CC has the Sammy 46" 650 120hz LCD for $1692 and the 50" Panny 80u Plasma for $1440

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: aphex
So i've yet to buy a TV. I did order one, but promptly cancelled before it arrived. Wife and I decided to hold on until we are 100% sure.

I did notice however that BB's new service plans cover image retention/burn in on Plasmas.

CC has the Sammy 46" 650 120hz LCD for $1692 and the 50" Panny 80u Plasma for $1440

I love my Sammy 46" 650 120hz LCD but I hate the cheapness factor of the construction of the Touch of Color bezel. Along the bottom and top of it, it is attached with thick double sided TAPE, yea, that's right, TAPE. You can run a flashlight over it, and see the strips of TAPE and pieces of TAPE attached inside on the black plastic case, holding the clear red bezel in place. WTF? Mine is only 3 months old and starting to separate at one of the bottom corners. The TV works perfectly, but this level of extreme cheapness leaves me feeling a bit jipped at the 2k price point this HDTV set averages at. Duuno what I'm going to do about it yet, but some others have complained about it, and had Samsung come out and replace the TAPE and fix the bezel. WTF cheapness indeed. I would assume all the other ToC bezels on the other sizes are also just as cheaply attached, too. Down the road a few years, I can see the bezel completely falling off at some point as the TAPE gets dust and heat effecting it and the stickiness wears off or the bezel naturally seperates from it due to an imperfect fit.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: aphex
So i've yet to buy a TV. I did order one, but promptly cancelled before it arrived. Wife and I decided to hold on until we are 100% sure.

I did notice however that BB's new service plans cover image retention/burn in on Plasmas.

CC has the Sammy 46" 650 120hz LCD for $1692 and the 50" Panny 80u Plasma for $1440

I love my Sammy 46" 650 120hz LCD but I hate the cheapness factor of the construction of the Touch of Color bezel. Along the bottom and top of it, it is attached with thick double sided TAPE, yea, that's right, TAPE. You can run a flashlight over it, and see the strips of TAPE and pieces of TAPE attached inside on the black plastic case, holding the clear red bezel in place. WTF? Mine is only 3 months old and starting to separate at one of the bottom corners. The TV works perfectly, but this level of extreme cheapness leaves me feeling a bit jipped at the 2k price point this HDTV set averages at. Duuno what I'm going to do about it yet, but some others have complained about it, and had Samsung come out and replace the TAPE and fix the bezel. WTF cheapness indeed. I would assume all the other ToC bezels on the other sizes are also just as cheaply attached, too. Down the road a few years, I can see the bezel completely falling off at some point as the TAPE gets dust and heat effecting it and the stickiness wears off or the bezel naturally seperates from it due to an imperfect fit.

Probably my single biggest gripe with the TV(LN46A650). I've got the sticky tape gushing out of the edges of the bezel. And with the uber high gloss finish of it you notice ANY imperfection in the finish. Along the bottom of the front bezel I have a couple dimples that show up at certain angles.

I'm not all that picky of a guy, but it is a bit disapointing in a $2000+ TV.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: aphex
So i've yet to buy a TV. I did order one, but promptly cancelled before it arrived. Wife and I decided to hold on until we are 100% sure.

I did notice however that BB's new service plans cover image retention/burn in on Plasmas.

CC has the Sammy 46" 650 120hz LCD for $1692 and the 50" Panny 80u Plasma for $1440

I love my Sammy 46" 650 120hz LCD but I hate the cheapness factor of the construction of the Touch of Color bezel. Along the bottom and top of it, it is attached with thick double sided TAPE, yea, that's right, TAPE. You can run a flashlight over it, and see the strips of TAPE and pieces of TAPE attached inside on the black plastic case, holding the clear red bezel in place. WTF? Mine is only 3 months old and starting to separate at one of the bottom corners. The TV works perfectly, but this level of extreme cheapness leaves me feeling a bit jipped at the 2k price point this HDTV set averages at. Duuno what I'm going to do about it yet, but some others have complained about it, and had Samsung come out and replace the TAPE and fix the bezel. WTF cheapness indeed. I would assume all the other ToC bezels on the other sizes are also just as cheaply attached, too. Down the road a few years, I can see the bezel completely falling off at some point as the TAPE gets dust and heat effecting it and the stickiness wears off or the bezel naturally seperates from it due to an imperfect fit.

Probably my single biggest gripe with the TV(LN46A650). I've got the sticky tape gushing out of the edges of the bezel. And with the uber high gloss finish of it you notice ANY imperfection in the finish. Along the bottom of the front bezel I have a couple dimples that show up at certain angles.

I'm not all that picky of a guy, but it is a bit disapointing in a $2000+ TV.

disappointing to say the least.

op, the panny is still rockin and rollin, and under $1500 is a great buy.

 

[JackBurton]

Yeah, I'd have to agree. The Panasonic PZ80U is probably your best bet. It is a VERY nice TV at $1500, but if you could swing the PZ800U, I'd get that one instead. If you can't, the PZ80U is still a really nice TV.

 

[mshan]

There was a comment on CNET review of LN46A550 that there were 3 panels used, S - Samsung, A - AU Optonics, and C - Chei Mei, but someone else said this was only true for Samsung LCDs under 32 inches.

Does Samsung still use it's own panel for the LN46A550 and is it still the same panel that has garned all of the comments on how good an image for the money it has?

 

[aphex]

Yikes, just started searching about Bezel problems on the TOC samsungs, that doesn't look too good... 🙁 Thanks for the heads up.

So 50" Panny 80u Plasma for $1440 doesn't sound bad at all to me now. Especially with the BB warranty covering Burn-in/IR for 4 years. I could even drop down to the 46" for around $1300, but I think I want those extra 4" since I sit about 12 feet away.

 

[scootermaster]

Huh. I'm taking a look at that Panny TH-50PZ800U and it's looking pretty good. Seems like a better deal than their top of the line model. Although in the Cnet review, they said that it was the best bet, or at least until the "new" kuros come out. Have they? (I don't know how old this model is or when that review came out).

I'll have to look at some of them in person, but is this a decent starting point? Maybe I should start my own thread, but here's my parameters:

Budget: ~2k. I'm in CA, so that's 8.25% tax if I buy it here, which is incentive to not. (Hello Amazon?) But then again, there's shipping. Fry's and Costco are an option since they're both around here. I can go above 2k if there's a good reason to, but I also think I need to upgrade my trusty, die-hard Denon AVR-3801 (god I love that thing) to something that'll switch HDMI. And I might need a Blu-ray player too. And, of course, an Xbox 360. =]

Uses: Mostly HDTV. Some SDTV. Some Xbox 360. Likely some Blu-ray. Biggest use in the [near?] future: HTPC (likely blu-ray on this, as well as other stuff. So that's the big reason why 1080p is needed.)

Distance: Don't remember exactly, but it's probably 9-12 feet.

Picture quality is very important to me, so I'm willing to pay for that. I'm thinking 50" is a decent size for the room and the future. I'm not in a super hurry to get something, so if new models are coming in, say, December or something, I could be convinced to wait I also might be buying a 2k Macbook Pro, so I don't know if I need to buy a 2k TV right now (and a 1k receiver, and a $300 Blu-ray player, and a $300 Xbox, and, and and and and....=] )

 

[boomerang]

I've had my Panasonic TH-50PZ80U for about 5 weeks now. I'm very happy with the unit with one exception - power usage. My first electric bill with this set was about 30% higher. I started a thread here with more details. I'm anxious to see my next bill. I'll know in just a few days. A similar sized LCD uses far less electricity.

Glare is an issue. I'm not complaining as I anticipated it. I'd been watching a 32" CRT and had to deal with glare. So it was something I was used to. I truly do find that glare is less of an issue with this Plasma versus the CRT. It's much less noticeable. My attention isn't drawn to it like it was with the CRT.

I'm about 16' from the set. That's too far away. If I move closer the PQ really improves. But if I'd moved up to a larger Plasma, the price went up way too steeply for me. One must buy what one can afford.