After Handover, Hussein Palaces Looted

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Check this out, that Iraqi army that Bush keeps telling us is going to "stand up" so the U.S. military can "stand down" has finally managed to learn how to do one thing right from their American teachers. :laugh:

Next time Bush gets up in front of a microphone and repeats those tired lies about Iraqi military readiness please remember this story instead of instantly sending his poll numbers higher like a bunch of trained chimpanzees.

What a pathetic joke Bush's entire Iraq debacle truly is.

After Handover, Hussein Palaces Looted

November Transfer Ceremony Was Hailed as Symbol of Progress in Iraq

By Ellen Knickmeyer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, January 13, 2006; Page A01

BAGHDAD, Jan. 12 -- On Nov. 22, the top U.S. military and civilian leaders in Iraq handed over Saddam Hussein's most lavish palace compound to the safekeeping and control of the new Iraqi army and government, in a ceremony whose intended symbolism was as impossible to ignore as the military brass band.

"The passing of this facility is a simple ceremony that vividly demonstrates the continuing progress being made by the Iraqi government and their people," said Col. Mark McKnight, commander of 1st Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division, who handed the keys to the palaces to the governor of Salahuddin province.

But in the days after American forces and the Iraqi brass band pulled out of the circular palace drive on a bluff overlooking the Tigris River, local officials now say, looters moved in, ripping out doors, air conditioners, ceiling fans and light-switch plates from some of the compound's 136 palaces, leaving little more than plaster and dangling electric wires.

The culprits are some of the same Iraqi security forces and officials to whom Americans transferred control, police and the governor say.

"Thank God we were able to save the walls from the looters, because everything else was stolen,"
Gov. Hamed Hamood Shekti said by telephone.

Shekti, like police officials, blamed Iraqi soldiers at the palaces and his own deputy. "The palace was turned over to the Iraqi army units in the presence of Deputy Governor Abdullah Naji Jabara," he said. "Two weeks later I heard the place was looted. Now who can I accuse of the looting?"

Iraqi army commanders in and around Tikrit could not be reached by telephone for comment. Local authorities said Jabara had left on a pilgrimage to Mecca and could not be reached either.

The full extent of the alleged looting could not be determined. A provincial police commander, Lt. Col. Mahmud Hiazza, said soldiers and officials stripped at least some palaces that had been occupied by U.S. officials. "Also, there were some palaces not occupied by Americans," he said. "Even in those palaces, everything was gone."

A trip to one of the palaces appeared to substantiate the allegations. A witness, visiting one palace now used by Iraqi police, found officers working in offices stripped of their baseboards and doors, with holes where some air conditioners had sat and plaited wiring in place of electrical switches.

According to local officials, the Iraqi troops responsible for the alleged pillaging came from elsewhere, including the northern city of Mosul.

Over several days after the transfer of control from U.S. to Iraqi hands, furnishings from the palaces turned up in one local market for sale by the truckload, said a Tikrit resident, Rashid Juburi.

U.S. military spokesmen, some expressing surprise, said this month that they had not known of the alleged looting spree after the handover. They stressed that the Tikriti palaces, after Baghdad's Green Zone the most prominent U.S. installations eventually slated for return to Iraqi authority, were no longer U.S. troops' concern.

"I think what we're seeing as we're able to leave the areas and turn them over to the Iraqi government, we're giving more responsibility back to the Iraqi government," said Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad.

Johnson said he could appreciate the symbolism of the alleged looting taking place immediately after the much-ballyhooed handover.

"We would fully expect the Iraqi authorities to address any criminal activities" involved in the stripping of the Tikriti palaces, he said.

Lt. Col. Edward Loomis, a spokesman for the 101st Airborne Division in Tikrit, said he knew of no U.S. service members who had been in the compound since the handover.

A succession of U.S. military units used the palaces as a base after U.S. troops entered Iraq in March 2003. The 1,000-acre compound includes some of the most impressive scenery in Iraq, with sweeping views of the Tigris River valley. Hussein was born in a village outside Tikrit.

Gen. George W. Casey Jr., commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, and U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad were among the dignitaries who choppered out to Tikrit for the handover ceremony in November. In addition to the high-ranking officials in attendance, the event was notable for an incoming mortar round that sent dignitaries, brass band members and many of the soldiers diving to the asphalt.

The round, a dud, overshot the ceremony by hundreds of feet.

Shekti, the governor, said in his remarks that day that the handover highlighted "many national aspirations and goals. The first aspiration is the day when all multinational forces will be able to leave Iraq. The second aspiration is convincing the court of world opinion that the people of Iraq are able to manage their affairs independently."

As the band played, Jabara, the provincial official accused of the looting, ran the Iraqi colors up the flagpole.

In Washington, the Bush administration trumpeted the handover. "The Iraqi forces are becoming more capable on a daily basis, and so this was, I think, an important example of that process moving forward," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said that day. "It was, I think, symbolically important that this was a handover of one of Saddam's former palaces that he built in his home town, and now Iraqi forces that truly represent the will of the Iraqi people are now going to have control of that palace."

Some saw the U.S. emphasis on the Tikrit handover, also cited in speeches by President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, as an assurance that U.S. and Iraqi troops were indeed moving toward the day when all of Iraq would be turned over to its own forces and officials.


Police first entered the palaces about 20 days after the Americans left, said Maj. Subhi Nadhum, a deputy commander of a police emergency unit in the area. "Iraqi forces were the only forces inside the presidential palaces after the Americans left," Nadhum said. "During those 20 days the deputy governor and members of the governing council were going back and forth" among the army commanders at the palaces.

Hiazza, the provincial police commander, said he started investigating immediately after police first entered the palaces. "I found everything was looted, even the electrical switches," he said.

When Hiazza formally accused Jabara and some members of the provincial council in connection with the alleged looting, authorities abruptly transferred Hiazza north to Baiji, an insurgent hotbed. "The reason they transferred me is definitely I will get killed there," Hiazza said. He resigned instead.

Bush must be laughing his a$$ off after after every one of those speeches. I wonder how he can managae to keep a straight face until he's off camera.

 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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As everyone says - Iraq is for the Iraqi people. If they wish to destroy their country, why should we stop them.

/sarcasm
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
As everyone says - Iraq is for the Iraqi people. If they wish to destroy their country, why should we stop them.

/sarcasm

I see your point. After all, America has done such a good job of destroying Iraq how can we possibly protest when Iraqis complete the job?
 

slyedog

Senior member
Jan 12, 2001
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it all belongs to the iraq people, stolen from them by saddam. whats the big deal?
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: BBond
I see your point. After all, America has done such a good job of destroying Iraq how can we possibly protest when Iraqis complete the job?

Looting from their dictatorial tyrant != "destroying" the country.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,069
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Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: BBond
I see your point. After all, America has done such a good job of destroying Iraq how can we possibly protest when Iraqis complete the job?

Looting from their dictatorial tyrant != "destroying" the country.

It was no longer Saddam's stuff. It belonged to the folks these folks are supposed to protect.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
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Originally posted by: ironwing
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: BBond
I see your point. After all, America has done such a good job of destroying Iraq how can we possibly protest when Iraqis complete the job?

Looting from their dictatorial tyrant != "destroying" the country.

It was no longer Saddam's stuff. It belonged to the folks these folks are supposed to protect.

I still think you guys are missing the point. It is like the French having their revolution (though i conside this a "revolution" to no means) and looting everything in the French palaces...it isn't justified either way. And I've never read of a textbook that glorified that, yet we feel free to talk about how "great" this is.

If anything this is a sign that nearly three years after the invasion, security in Iraq still sucks balls...
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: BBond
I see your point. After all, America has done such a good job of destroying Iraq how can we possibly protest when Iraqis complete the job?

Looting from their dictatorial tyrant != "destroying" the country.

But they weren't looting from "their dictatorial tyrant," were they? No, they were looting the headquarters the U.S. command handed over to them in a ceremony designed to tout the advance of the very force that then looted that headquarters down to the bare walls.

If this is another example of what we're being told is the readiness of Iraqi troops then U.S. troops will never be able to leave Iraq.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
As everyone says - Iraq is for the Iraqi people. If they wish to destroy their country, why should we stop them.

/sarcasm

Same thing with no sarcasm.
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
I was one of the last Americans to leave the Tikrit Presidential Compound or FOB Danger as we called it. We actually had to pull security while contractors removed the hundreds of tons of gravel we had laid down for parking areas etc. as the Iraqis didn't want it there. I remember rolling out in one of the last convoys turning to the guy next to me and asking "So how long do you think it will be before they loot the place?" This shouldn't be any big suprise. Thier is no Iraqi authority, discipline, or popular mandate which would allow any government or security force to truly be effective and non-corrupt or at least under control.

This incident doesn't really say anything except that the Iraqis are fvcked.

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: ironwing
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: BBond
I see your point. After all, America has done such a good job of destroying Iraq how can we possibly protest when Iraqis complete the job?

Looting from their dictatorial tyrant != "destroying" the country.

It was no longer Saddam's stuff. It belonged to the folks these folks are supposed to protect.


:thumbsup:
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
I was one of the last Americans to leave the Tikrit Presidential Compound or FOB Danger as we called it. We actually had to pull security while contractors removed the hundreds of tons of gravel we had laid down for parking areas etc. as the Iraqis didn't want it there. I remember rolling out in one of the last convoys turning to the guy next to me and asking "So how long do you think it will be before they loot the place?" This shouldn't be any big suprise. Thier is no Iraqi authority, discipline, or popular mandate which would allow any government or security force to truly be effective and non-corrupt or at least under control.

This incident doesn't really say anything except that the Iraqis are fvcked.

Well, that may be true but if it is true then I'd say, thanks to George W. Bush and his ill-advised, unprovoked, irresponsible, recklessly ill-planned invasion of Iraq, Americans are "fvcked" too.
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
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So what? In the end what does it matter?

What are you going to do about it? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Go back to you regular lives and just tune all this crap out because you really have no influence on anything that really matters.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
So what? In the end what does it matter?

What are you going to do about it? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Go back to you regular lives and just tune all this crap out because you really have no influence on anything that really matters.

That's exactly what the people who are responsible for these crimes want you to think. How can anyone go back to their "regular lives" when what once constituted their regular lives has all changed?

If enough of us demand accountability for these crimes the criminals will be brought to justice. We can make a difference. We can have influence. But not by following your ignoble advice, Justin. Never by giving up and ignoring the lies and corruption, the crimes being perpetrated in our name, being committed in the name of "freedom and democracy" by people whose goal is to destroy those very ideals that America once stood for.

We were the beacon for the world's oppressed but now we've become the oppressor and the oppressed even in our own land. How can you even suggest that we can do nothing about it? It is our duty to do something about it. It is our only hope.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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If we don't make a stand and hold the current administration accountable for their actions we'll likely never get another chance to do so.

Nothing in the national consensus to combat terrorism after 9/11 envisioned the unilateral rewriting of more than 200 years of tradition and law by one president embarked on an ideological crusade.

An editorial opinion from today's New York Times on the subject of the looting of our own palaces...

The Imperial Presidency at Work

You would think that Senators Carl Levin and John McCain would have learned by now that you cannot deal in good faith with a White House that does not act in good faith. Yet both men struck bargains intended to restore the rule of law to American prison camps. And President Bush tossed them aside at the first opportunity.

Mr. Bush made a grand show of inviting Mr. McCain into the Oval Office last month to announce his support for a bill to require humane treatment of detainees at Guantánamo Bay and other prisons run by the American military and intelligence agencies. He seemed to have managed to get Vice President Dick Cheney to stop trying to kill the proposed Congressional ban on torture of prisoners.

The White House also endorsed a bargain between Mr. Levin and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, which tempered somewhat a noxious proposal by Mr. Graham to deny a court hearing to anyone the president declares to be an "unlawful enemy combatant." The bargain with Mr. Levin removed language that stripped away cases already before the courts, which would have been an egregious usurpation of power by one branch of government, and it made clear that those cases should remain in the courts.

Mr. Bush, however, seems to see no limit to his imperial presidency. First, he issued a constitutionally ludicrous "signing statement" on the McCain bill. The message: Whatever Congress intended the law to say, he intended to ignore it on the pretext the commander in chief is above the law. That twisted reasoning is what led to the legalized torture policies, not to mention the domestic spying program.

Then Mr. Bush went after the judiciary, scrapping the Levin-Graham bargain. The solicitor general informed the Supreme Court last week that it no longer had jurisdiction over detainee cases. It said the court should drop an existing case in which a Yemeni national is challenging the military tribunals invented by Mr. Bush's morally challenged lawyers after 9/11. The administration is seeking to eliminate all other lawsuits filed by some of the approximately 500 men at Gitmo, the vast majority of whom have not been shown to pose any threat.

Both of the offensive theories at work here - that a president's intent in signing a bill trumps the intent of Congress in writing it, and that a president can claim power without restriction or supervision by the courts or Congress - are pet theories of Judge Samuel Alito, the man Mr. Bush chose to tilt the Supreme Court to the right.

The administration's behavior shows how high and immediate the stakes are in the Alito nomination, and how urgent it is for Congress to curtail Mr. Bush's expansion of power. Nothing in the national consensus to combat terrorism after 9/11 envisioned the unilateral rewriting of more than 200 years of tradition and law by one president embarked on an ideological crusade.
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
So what? In the end what does it matter?

What are you going to do about it? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Go back to you regular lives and just tune all this crap out because you really have no influence on anything that really matters.

That's exactly what the people who are responsible for these crimes want you to think. How can anyone go back to their "regular lives" when what once constituted their regular lives has all changed?

If enough of us demand accountability for these crimes the criminals will be brought to justice. We can make a difference. We can have influence. But not by following your ignoble advice, Justin. Never by giving up and ignoring the lies and corruption, the crimes being perpetrated in our name, being committed in the name of "freedom and democracy" by people whose goal is to destroy those very ideals that America once stood for.

We were the beacon for the world's oppressed but now we've become the oppressor and the oppressed even in our own land. How can you even suggest that we can do nothing about it? It is our duty to do something about it. It is our only hope.

At this point I firmly believe that the vast majority of the American people are so ignorant and so unconcerned with the world around them as compared to the rest of the world...well let us dig our graves together. What happens happens and we can't blame anyone for ourselves for the outcome.

In short, I give up. Fvck it.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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0
Originally posted by: tnitsuj

At this point I firmly believe that the vast majority of the American people are so ignorant and so unconcerned with the world around them as compared to the rest of the world...well let us dig our graves together. What happens happens and we can't blame anyone for ourselves for the outcome.

In short, I give up. Fvck it.

If that's the case then I'll just keep on pointing out all the myriad opportunities Bush and those people you allude to are creating for me to say "I told you so". :laugh:

 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: tnitsuj

At this point I firmly believe that the vast majority of the American people are so ignorant and so unconcerned with the world around them as compared to the rest of the world...well let us dig our graves together. What happens happens and we can't blame anyone for ourselves for the outcome.

In short, I give up. Fvck it.

If that's the case then I'll just keep on pointing out all the myriad opportunities Bush and those people you allude to are creating for me to say "I told you so". :laugh:

Well then that just makes you petty. I prefer to fiddle while Rome burns. We are not worth saving. Let the Chinese or Indians take over.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: tnitsuj

At this point I firmly believe that the vast majority of the American people are so ignorant and so unconcerned with the world around them as compared to the rest of the world...well let us dig our graves together. What happens happens and we can't blame anyone for ourselves for the outcome.

In short, I give up. Fvck it.

If that's the case then I'll just keep on pointing out all the myriad opportunities Bush and those people you allude to are creating for me to say "I told you so". :laugh:

Well then that just makes you petty. I prefer to fiddle while Rome burns. We are not worth saving. Let the Chinese or Indians take over.

Nothing is more petty than the ignorance of the "vast majority of the American people" that you speak of other than willfully joining their ranks.
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: tnitsuj

At this point I firmly believe that the vast majority of the American people are so ignorant and so unconcerned with the world around them as compared to the rest of the world...well let us dig our graves together. What happens happens and we can't blame anyone for ourselves for the outcome.

In short, I give up. Fvck it.

If that's the case then I'll just keep on pointing out all the myriad opportunities Bush and those people you allude to are creating for me to say "I told you so". :laugh:

Well then that just makes you petty. I prefer to fiddle while Rome burns. We are not worth saving. Let the Chinese or Indians take over.

Nothing is more petty than the ignorance of the "vast majority of the American people" that you speak of other than willfully joining their ranks.

I have left thier ranks. I haven't been back to the states in over a year and don't intend to ever come back permamently.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: tnitsuj


I have left thier ranks. I haven't been back to the states in over a year and don't intend to ever come back permamently.

Well then, you're one of the lucky ones, aren't you? :laugh:
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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PS Be careful, since you're e-mailing from foreign soil the NSA is probably spying on you. :laugh: :laugh:
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
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76
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: tnitsuj


I have left thier ranks. I haven't been back to the states in over a year and don't intend to ever come back permamently.

Well then, you're one of the lucky ones, aren't you? :laugh:

All the innefective sheep who couldn't see the threat coming and couldn't deal with it when it came can fvck themselves.

All the people who were looking for an excuse to allow thier ignorance and xenophobia to come out with a new "other" to hate can go fvck themselves to.