After burning 200 CDs full of mp3z i find out today that

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oLLie

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2001
5,203
1
0
Originally posted by: Ramsnake
good mornin'

well i have some more screenshots i took late last night , if these dont convince you , then i guess nothing can..anyways pls not linkify, if u do, the link will cease to exist

http://www.geocities.com/ramsnake2000/image.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/ramsnake2000/image1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/ramsnake2000/image3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/ramsnake2000/image4.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/ramsnake2000/image6.jpg

if anyone here uses cdmate to burn cds then i guess things will be clearer...
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Ok, you are NOT smarter than a nation full of nerds. If 800MB on an 80 min. cd was truly possible, do you think YOU and your friends would be the first to know? There are 2 ways to get more than 700 MB on an 80 minute CD: OVERBURN or MODE2. Overburn will not do 100MB and Mode2 does not work with MP3's.

NUFF SAID.
 
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Ramsnake

Senior member
Apr 12, 2002
629
0
0
Ok, you are NOT smarter than a nation full of nerds. If 800MB on an 80 min. cd was truly possible, do you think YOU and your friends would be the first to know? There are 2 ways to get more than 700 MB on an 80 minute CD: OVERBURN or MODE2. Overburn will not do 100MB and Mode2 does not work with MP3's.
Click to expand...

ok i admit that i cannot argue with you guys any more, i dont have any thing left in my arsenal to convince you, i gave u guys the screenshots the second time showing mode 1 and close to 800 MB in the screenshots, you can say that i changed everything and used some visual trickery, if u think so , then so be it. i have nothing to gain here, just saw something when i tested for the second time and i thought i could share with all of u.
 
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teddymines

Senior member
Jul 6, 2001
940
0
0
I don't have the orange book in front of me, but I believe that a writable disc has a maximum ATIP address of 79:59:74. Anything beyond that puts the disc out of spec. Also, there are tight tolerances for track pitch (distance between tracks) so trying to squeeze in more tracks also puts the disc out of spec.

This looks like a cheap way to extend a storage method beyond design specs due to the fact that media and burners are so cheap and pervasive. Unfortunately, it creates hosts of discs that may not play on equipment designed to that spec.

I don't think those media manufacturers can legally put use the CD logo. Can someone verify this?
 
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bizmark

Banned
Feb 4, 2002
2,311
0
0
just do what someone else asked. Show a screenshot of the CD copying to your hard drive, and then the size of that folder on the hard drive.

Your bandwidth allocation on geocities is up, BTW.... I couldn't see any of your screenshots. Sorry if you've already posted one like this.
 
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Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,730
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Originally posted by: FrontlineWarrior
Ramsnake can you tell us how you did it? So that we can replicate the results...
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Exactly. Why not instead of razz him, someone try it out and confirm/disprove it. I'd do it if I had a burner at work. I'll try it tonight.
 
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Ramsnake

Senior member
Apr 12, 2002
629
0
0
im going for lunch right now, i shall put up the earlier screenshots and screenshots requested by bizmark, should be there in an hour,i shall see ya all then.
 
flood

flood

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 1999
4,213
0
76
Originally posted by: Ramsnake
im going for lunch right now, i shall put up the earlier screenshots and screenshots requested by bizmark, should be there in an hour,i shall see ya all then.
Click to expand...

I can host the screenshot I asked for :-]
 
M

MisterM

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,768
0
0
rubix:
you can fit 800mb on a 700mb/80minute cd. but you have to burn in it mode2, not mode1 which has error correction bits. but as far as i know you can't burn data files in mode2, it has to be a vcd or svcd. allowing non multimedia files in mode2 will lead to corrupted files.
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This is the correct answer.

If you guys have downloaded a SVCD before you might have noticed that the source file for the SVCD can be nearly 800MB big, and still fit on an 700MB CD-R. What Ramsnake is doing is burning his mp3's like SVCD's, in Mode2. Mode 2, unlike Mode 1 (the mode used for regular Data CD's) has got no error correction bits at all, so you get an additional 100MB of space, that would usually be used for error correction info.

700MB Data = 800MB Audio because Data is usually 700MB Data+100MB error correction. :)

The problem here is that the CD's that Ramsnake has burned in Mode 2 are, because of the lack of error correction, a lot more likely to become corrupted through scratches, so I would recommand against it, if storing your mp3s for safety is what you want to do.
 
V

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Originally posted by: MisterM
rubix:
you can fit 800mb on a 700mb/80minute cd. but you have to burn in it mode2, not mode1 which has error correction bits. but as far as i know you can't burn data files in mode2, it has to be a vcd or svcd. allowing non multimedia files in mode2 will lead to corrupted files.
Click to expand...

This is the correct answer.

If you guys have downloaded a SVCD before you might have noticed that the source file for the SVCD can be nearly 800MB big, and still fit on an 700MB CD-R. What Ramsnake is doing is burning his mp3's like SVCD's, in Mode2. Mode 2, unlike Mode 1 (the mode used for regular Data CD's) has got no error correction bits at all, so you get an additional 100MB of space, that would usually be used for error correction info.

700MB Data = 800MB Audio because Data is usually 700MB Data+100MB error correction. :)

The problem here is that the CD's that Ramsnake has burned in Mode 2 are, because of the lack of error correction, a lot more likely to become corrupted through scratches, so I would recommand against it, if storing your mp3s for safety is what you want to do.
Click to expand...

Since he is writing compressed audio, as data files, would the CD's even be readable as a data CD?

It's not being written as CD audio, so wouldn't an OS expect the error correction data to be there?

Viper GTS
 
M

MisterM

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,768
0
0
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Since he is writing compressed audio, as data files, would the CD's even be readable as a data CD?

It's not being written as CD audio, so wouldn't an OS expect the error correction data to be there?

Viper GTS
Click to expand...


The error correction data is only used in case of an error, so as long as his CD-Rs are in perfect condition, it should work.

But the moment the CDs are scratched or to dirty for his CD/DVD-ROM to read without errors, his mp3s will become corrputed or lost. :(

edit:

Here is a howto, for those that want to try it themselves. :)

edit2:

Apparently you need a filter to properly use the CDs burned with Mode 2, so the info I gave you above is not correct. Oh well, nobodys perfect. :)
 
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teddymines

Senior member
Jul 6, 2001
940
0
0
Originally posted by: MisterM
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Since he is writing compressed audio, as data files, would the CD's even be readable as a data CD?

It's not being written as CD audio, so wouldn't an OS expect the error correction data to be there?

Viper GTS
Click to expand...


The error correction data is only used in case of an error, so as long as his CD-Rs are in perfect condition, it should work.

But the moment the CDs are scratched or to dirty for his CD/DVD-ROM to read without errors, his mp3s will become corrputed or lost. :(

edit:

Here is a howto, for those that want to try it themselves. :)

edit2:

Apparently you need a filter to properly use the CDs burned with Mode 2, so the info I gave you above is not correct. Oh well, nobodys perfect. :)
Click to expand...
Not exactly true about a small scratch corrupting data. Mode 1 uses 2048 for user data + 288 for error correction. Mode 2 uses 2336 for user data and has no error correction at the frame level. However, there are still protection mechanisms in place such as CIRC and de-interleaving. In fact, the CIRC decoder can recover raw data that has an error burst of around 450 bytes. So a scratch will not necessarily cripple a disc written in mode 2.
 
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LordSnailz

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
4,821
0
0
ramsnake is correct - damm it's hard to convince people in here, as it was mentioned before, he's burning a 80min. audio cd onto a 80min cd ... he's not overburning or using mode2 ... it's possible since the audio files dont have the crc code in them ...

ls
 
J

jdini76

Platinum Member
Mar 16, 2001
2,468
0
0
This is amazing...You guys find the most mundane conversations to argue about...I can not beleive there are so many opinions to how much stuff you can fit on one CDR! I figured I have to be a part of this...

Instead of arguing why doesn't somebody try it!
 
Aves

Aves

Lifer
Feb 7, 2001
12,232
30
101
Originally posted by: LordSnailz
ramsnake is correct - damm it's hard to convince people in here, as it was mentioned before, he's burning a 80min. audio cd onto a 80min cd ... he's not overburning or using mode2 ... it's possible since the audio files dont have the crc code in them ...

ls
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According to Ramsnake, it's NOT just an Audio-CD.

Originally posted by: Ramsnake
dude it has a more than 20 hrs of mp3 audio in it. guys guys im not a comp novice....could it be that u didnt know abt this?
Click to expand...
 
V

VisionsUCI

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2000
1,834
0
0
somebody else should just try it... same program, burner, and disk would be nice, but just program and equivalent disk would be sufficient...
 
D

dawks

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,071
2
81
Originally posted by: LordSnailz
ramsnake is correct - damm it's hard to convince people in here, as it was mentioned before, he's burning a 80min. audio cd onto a 80min cd ... he's not overburning or using mode2 ... it's possible since the audio files dont have the crc code in them ...

ls
Click to expand...

Wow, how do I go about taking the crc code out of my mp3s?
rolleye.gif
 
N

nitsuj3580

Platinum Member
Jun 13, 2001
2,668
14
81
as mentioned you can burn 800 megs on a 700 meg cd in mode 2. It takes out all the error checking. I do this for divx files all the time.
 
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dawks

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,071
2
81
As mentioned in the quote, he said you can do this without using mode2 to burn. You simply use MP3s without CRC code..

Either he has a typo, or im missing something here. It would be cool if I could save that much space on my hard drive.. theres nothing wrong with it, so why do I need all that extra CRC code on my disk?
rolleye.gif
 
M

Mrburns2007

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2001
2,595
0
0
Open Nero and try it yourselves with a bunch of mp3's and see if it works, afraid to waste a disc then use simulation.
 
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randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,846
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
i've heard about mode2 and such.. but only worked w/ (s)vcd's for me... setting mode 2 for regular data did nothing to increase usable space. are there any settings in nero you're suppose to use/not use w/ mode 2??
 
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