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Africa is giving nothing to anyone --

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How about giving empowering the people of Africa to make a difference for themselves? We don't have to send troops to Libya, or to Darfur, but we can give money and resources to social entrepreneurs who are trying to help their communities.
 
OutHouse said:
whats the deal with the fad of digging up old ass postings lately?
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the fucked up thing is I never notice until after someone brings it up and then i'm left wondering why the fuck i replied to some asshole who necro'd an old ass thread.
 
leonlee said:
How about giving empowering the people of Africa to make a difference for themselves? We don't have to send troops to Libya, or to Darfur, but we can give money and resources to social entrepreneurs who are trying to help their communities.
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You mean like we have been doing for 30+ years?
 
What's ironic is that we've been doing the same thing for 30+ years both in Africa and domestically, with only somewhat better results domestically. That should tell you just a.) how F'd Africa is and b.) just how F'd 4th gen welfare folks are.

Chuck
 
CanOWorms said:
People here really underestimate the effects of colonialism.
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Even assuming colonialism is the cause of Africa's problems (doubtful considering other formerly colonized regions are growing much faster than Africa) it doesn't serve any purpose to worry about it. Only Africans control their own destiny.
 
Infohawk said:
Even assuming colonialism is the cause of Africa's problems (doubtful considering other formerly colonized regions are growing much faster than Africa)
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There are many variables at play. Some were able to overcome the devastation. Countries were also affected at different levels. How the colonizers decided to split or form the colonies also had a huge effect on each country freed from slavery.

it doesn't serve any purpose to worry about it.
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It's not only about worrying. It's also about knowing. If we know that Africa was plundered, why not have the former slave-master states repatriate the riches to the newly freed states?

Only Africans control their own destiny.
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Actually, I would argue that many of their former colonizers still unduly influence or interfere with them. Remember, it was not too long ago when France installed a cannibalistic dictator in the Central African Republic and participated in the Rwanda Genocide.

Those are not easy atrocities to recover from.
 
CanOWorms said:
There are many variables at play. Some were able to overcome the devastation. Countries were also affected at different levels. How the colonizers decided to split or form the colonies also had a huge effect on each country freed from slavery.

It's not only about worrying. It's also about knowing. If we know that Africa was plundered, why not have the former slave-master states repatriate the riches to the newly freed states?

Actually, I would argue that many of their former colonizers still unduly influence or interfere with them. Remember, it was not too long ago when France installed a cannibalistic dictator in the Central African Republic and participated in the Rwanda Genocide.

Those are not easy atrocities to recover from.
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Reparations are dangerous and not practical. Should Muslim countries have to repay Spain for the the conquest of Iberia? At some point you have to get over things. Remember what happened to Germany after WWI. South Africa showed that moving forward was the way to go. More importantly, do you really think aid would do anything in Africa? The aid they already get is squandered by corruption.
 
Infohawk said:
Reparations are dangerous and not practical. Should Muslim countries have to repay Spain for the the conquest of Iberia? At some point you have to get over things.
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Sure, but these were quite recent events. These are not personal reparations, too. It's country-to-country, government-to-government. Some of the plunder includes cultural artifacts, jewels, etc. that are easily traced. It's not all monetary reparations.

The atrocities committed were also on an unprecedented scale. It's not something that we can easily compare to other past events. Perhaps we can say that these pass the threshold where reparations are required while other events do not.

Remember what happened to Germany after WWI. South Africa showed that moving forward was the way to go. More importantly, do you really think aid would do anything in Africa? The aid they already get is squandered by corruption.
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I think that aid is one among many forces that need to be used to help.
 
CanOWorms said:
The atrocities committed were also on an unprecedented scale. It's not something that we can easily compare to other past events. Perhaps we can say that these pass the threshold where reparations are required while other events do not.
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If they were on an unprecedented scale it was mostly due to industrial changes. There's no reason to single out European colonization as distinct from the wrongs that have been committed by groups of humans since the beginning of time. Moors enslaved people on the high seas, Indo-Europeans set up a caste system that persists to this day in India (thanks for the reminder Baasha), the Phaohos used forced labor to create the pyramids. The list goes on and on and you can't account for everything or conclude that Europeans are the worst criminals that have existed.
 
Africa is just one big f-ed up continent suffering from the effects of colonialism, imperialism, racism, health problems, and other social issues with numerous factions and leaders vying for power and wealth.
 
Actually we need to let Islam permeate itself in all African countries.

Then we need to sit back and watch how the Muslims turn those backwards countries around and bring them into the 21st centurie!!
 
Infohawk said:
If they were on an unprecedented scale it was mostly due to industrial changes.
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I imagine it was because of the race for greed among the colonizers. The industrial changes you're speaking about came about in much more modern times when eradicating human life at a mass scale certainly wasn't an acceptable tactic like it may have been 500 years prior.

There's no reason to single out European colonization as distinct from the wrongs that have been committed by groups of humans since the beginning of time. Moors enslaved people on the high seas, Indo-Europeans set up a caste system that persists to this day in India (thanks for the reminder Baasha), the Phaohos used forced labor to create the pyramids. The list goes on and on and you can't account for everything or conclude that Europeans are the worst criminals that have existed.
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We're talking about the colonizers of Africa just in the last century. Some of these countries weren't even freed from slavery until the 1980s.
 
Colonialism has nothing to do with it. Read your history. Everyone was colonized and everyone is not fucked up. As long blame is misplaced there is no fixing what ails.
 
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