Aflac's sad sad workout thread

[Ika]

So I'm kinda new to this whole "health and fitness" thing. I've always had a scrawny upper body throughout my (admittedly relatively short) life; I've also been really bottom heavy (thick legs... genetics thing, I guess?).
I'm weak and extremely unfit, but I don't look it - I guess that's why I never got the motivation to really set up a serious workout/fitness schedule. As of last month, my (also very very scrawny) roommate decided to start going to the gym, and I figured "hey, if there's going to be someone scrawnier than me at the gym, I might as well go with him".

Anyway, on to the "meat" of this thread.

I've decided to first focus on strength training and bulk building, then focusing on stamina. Also, I have free access to a gym on campus here (well, the gym fee is mandatory, so we might as well use it), and I can run anywhere.

Also we've already planned a trip to Puerto Rico for spring break (early march), so it gives me a deadline to not look like a bleached twig when I show up at the beach. Hence the motivation.

I've been doing a 3-day split workout for about a month now. It consists of:

Monday - chest/triceps - dumbbell presses (3x10), isolateral incline press (3x10), isolateral decline press (3x10), tricep pulldowns (3x10), and machine-assisted tricep dips (3x10 or until failure).

Wednesday - back/bicep - widegrip pulldowns (2x10), reverse pulldowns (2x10), seated rows (3x10), single-arm dumbbell row (3x10), and bicep curls (3x10 or until failure).

Friday - shoulders - military press (3x10), dumbbell lateral raise (3x10), shrugs (3x15).


I had a few questions -
To add muscle, should I decrease my reps and increase my weight? I'm not very strong yet so my max is generally very low.
Is it redundant to do three types of chest presses (dumbbell regular presses, then machine incline/decline)?
I also wanted to add a few things - pec deck flys and regular dumbbell/machine flys to chest/tri workout, dumbbell reverse flys or seated machine reverse flys to back/bicep, and I don't really know what to add to shoulders (I've missed the shoulders day two weeks in a row).
Also if I miss a day, should I make it up and push the whole schedule back or just skip it?

Just looking for some feedback or tips. Working out is really something I've wanted to do for a long time, but never felt like I knew what I was doing or was too embarassed to go th the gym. Hopefully with the help of some friends and spring break, I can get this regime kick-started.

 

[brikis98]

If you are a beginner to weight training, you do not have the necessary knowledge to design an effective routine for yourself. There is no reason for a newbie to understand the effects of different choices of exercises, sets, reps, what days, how much rest, etc, but without that understanding, your routine will probably be very inefficient. In this case, you've picked a typical bodybuilding style split routine, with high reps, lots of isolation exercises and no training of the legs. These are all VERY poor choices for a beginner and while you'll make some initial progress on this routine, you could do FAR better.

You'd be much better of doing a routine designed by professionals. The gold standard for beginners is the routine in Starting Strength. The book is also the best resource I've seen for teaching the lifts, explaining the particular choice of exercises, and more. It is worth every penny. You can check out the Starting Strength Wiki for an overview of the book's content. Another option is the very similar Stronglifts 5x5 routine. Either one of these routines will be a much better choice to help you get bigger and stronger.

 

[Lamont Burns]

Shrugs are for your traps if you do them right, and really shoulders do not need a day to themselves at all b/c of how much indirect work they get with other proper exercises.

Oh and... where's your legs? Are you going to be on of those people I chuckle at with no quads and no real strength?

 

[gramboh]

What brikis said. Your legs contain the largest and strongest muscles in your body, ignoring them is insane from looks/performance/health function points of view. The routine you laid out will produce few results and be mind numbing.

Simple answer: do Starting Strength novice routine and fix your diet (eat more calories, focus on protein sources).

 

[Ika]

Shrugs are for your traps if you do them right, and really shoulders do not need a day to themselves at all b/c of how much indirect work they get with other proper exercises.

Oh and... where's your legs? Are you going to be on of those people I chuckle at with no quads and no real strength?

It was supposed to be leg/shoulder day, but I really loath the idea of working on legs. It's pretty stupid, I guess. My legs are already hugely out of proportion with the rest of my body, what I want is to LEAN them down, not bulk them up. In that case, should I be doing less weight + more reps? I haven't actually done a leg workout at the gym yet (two weeks I missed, and the last week the gym was closed due to weather).

StrongLifts5x5 looks pretty interesting. I'll take a read through the book when I have a little more free time, maybe start next week or the week after.

 

[brikis98]

It was supposed to be leg/shoulder day, but I really loath the idea of working on legs. It's pretty stupid, I guess. My legs are already hugely out of proportion with the rest of my body, what I want is to LEAN them down, not bulk them up. In that case, should I be doing less weight + more reps? I haven't actually done a leg workout at the gym yet (two weeks I missed, and the last week the gym was closed due to weather).

First of all, unless you've done lots of leg intensive training, your huge legs probably aren't as strong as you think. You'll realize this the first time you try to squat or deadlift. Second, your upper body will catch up with a routine like SS or SL 5x5. Not only will the upper body exercises (bench press, OH press, pull-ups, push-ups) help, but even the lower body exercises make extensive use of the upper body too (squats, deadlifts and power cleans all require massive ab/back strength).

StrongLifts5x5 looks pretty interesting. I'll take a read through the book when I have a little more free time, maybe start next week or the week after.

It's worth mentioning that if you are going to spend countless hours in the next months at the gym, it is WELL worth spending a few hours up front reading to make sure you are doing it right. At the very least, read through all the Stronglifts material; if you can, get a copy of Starting Strength and read that cover to cover. You'll thank me later.

 

[alkemyst]

First of all, unless you've done lots of leg intensive training, your huge legs probably aren't as strong as you think. You'll realize this the first time you try to squat or deadlift. Second, your upper body will catch up with a routine like SS or SL 5x5. Not only will the upper body exercises (bench press, OH press, pull-ups, push-ups) help, but even the lower body exercises make extensive use of the upper body too (squats, deadlifts and power cleans all require massive ab/back strength).


It's worth mentioning that if you are going to spend countless hours in the next months at the gym, it is WELL worth spending a few hours up front reading to make sure you are doing it right. At the very least, read through all the Stronglifts material; if you can, get a copy of Starting Strength and read that cover to cover. You'll thank me later.

probably not smart throwing out lifting lingo like SS SL to a noob to lifting.

OP hit up bodybuilding.com and search for a good routine that works for your schedule.

Remember rest days are almost as important as the lifting days.

 

[Lamont Burns]

OP do not hit up bodybuilding.com. That's worse than tossing out SS and SL lingo to a "noob." It's just damn right irresponsible.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

OP do not hit up bodybuilding.com. That's worse than tossing out SS and SL lingo to a "noob." It's just damn right irresponsible.

Plus, alkemyst has shown that he doesn't know what's going on in the world of fitness time and time again. Bodybuilding.com is for bodybuilders and inexperienced lifters typically. If you want to look like that, then by all means visit bb.com. However, if you want a more functional exercise program, the suggested StrongLifts and SS are probably best.

 

[brikis98]

probably not smart throwing out lifting lingo like SS SL to a noob to lifting.

I mentioned these both in full in my first post, but just in case it isn't clear:

SS = Starting Strength
SL = Stronglifts

OP hit up bodybuilding.com and search for a good routine that works for your schedule.

IMO, that is awful advice. That website is responsible for an incredible number of people wasting their time at the gym with ineffective workouts. The sooner people stop thinking "weight training" and "bodybuilding" are synonymous, the better.

 

[alkemyst]

Plus, alkemyst has shown that he doesn't know what's going on in the world of fitness time and time again. Bodybuilding.com is for bodybuilders and inexperienced lifters typically. If you want to look like that, then by all means visit bb.com. However, if you want a more functional exercise program, the suggested StrongLifts and SS are probably best.

*sigh* only on AT would our 'lifters' question a major lifting website.

They have very good articles there, the forums are hit or miss; but much better than the advice here overall.

Like I said, he should look up workouts that fit his schedule.

Everyone here is just quoting rippeltoe and westside dogma and at the same time lifting alone.

I assure you I know exactly what works well for myself and have consistently made quick and major transformations to my own physique.

Most here though think I just make crap up like dropping 86lbs in 3 months.

They see me as a threat to their sort of athletic builds and ok lifts.

 

[iluvdeal]

Plus, alkemyst has shown that he doesn't know what's going on in the world of fitness time and time again. Bodybuilding.com is for bodybuilders and inexperienced lifters typically. If you want to look like that, then by all means visit bb.com. However, if you want a more functional exercise program, the suggested StrongLifts and SS are probably best.

Actually it does sound like he's more interested in aesthetics than functional strength as he states his main motivation is looking good for spring break. There's nothing wrong with wanting a beachbody as your fitness goal either. I know many people on here are really into functional strength as their own goal however you have to be careful in just applying that automatically onto everyone else because that's your own goal and you are really into it.

So I guess the question is, is SS or SL the best program for Aflac? For aesthetics, you want to focus on balance, proportion, and symmetry. My main concern with those programs and his stated physique and goals is that doing squats would increase his lower body size even more. I'm not sure how thick his lower body actually is now, but if it's as he describes it, you'd be throwing off the proportion even more which is not a good look. While I'm sure squats would increase his lower body strength as well, remember that's not his goal here. Given how integral squats are to those programs and adding size/strength to your entire body, I wonder if you can get away with not doing squats on SS or SL and thus whether those particular programs are the right fit for him.

 

[brikis98]

*sigh* only on AT would our 'lifters' question a major lifting website.

They have very good articles there, the forums are hit or miss; but much better than the advice here overall.

bb.com has good articles, but they are hopelessly mixed up with trash. Same thing with the posts on the forum. A newbie has no way of distinguishing one from the other. IMO, for the typical beginner/intermediate lifter, ATHF is a surprisingly good resource. If you are an advanced trainee, you have enough experience to sift through the info yourself and don't need our advice.

Like I said, he should look up workouts that fit his schedule.

Well, sure, the workout needs to fit your schedule... But it also needs to help you achieve your goals. There will be a million workout plans on bb.com that might fit his free days, but that does not mean they are effective or appropriate for a beginner.

I assure you I know exactly what works well for myself and have consistently made quick and major transformations to my own physique.

Most here though think I just make crap up like dropping 86lbs in 3 months.

They see me as a threat to their sort of athletic builds and ok lifts.

Try not to flatter yourself too much.

 

[brikis98]

Actually it does sound like he's more interested in aesthetics than functional strength as he states his main motivation is looking good for spring break. There's nothing wrong with wanting a beachbody as your fitness goal either. I know many people on here are really into functional strength as their own goal however you have to be careful in just applying that automatically onto everyone else because that's your own goal and you are really into it.

So I guess the question is, is SS or SL the best program for Aflac? For aesthetics, you want to focus on balance, proportion, and symmetry. My main concern with those programs and his stated physique and goals is that doing squats would increase his lower body size even more. I'm not sure how thick his lower body actually is now, but if it's as he describes it, you'd be throwing off the proportion even more which is not a good look. While I'm sure squats would increase his lower body strength as well, remember that's not his goal here. Given how integral squats are to those programs and adding size/strength to your entire body, I wonder if you can get away with not doing squats on SS or SL and thus whether those particular programs are the right fit for him.

Aflac is clearly a newbie to weight training - just read his first post. Most routines focused on aesthetics are NOT efficient choices for newbies. Here are a few reasons why:

1. Beginners to weight training are able to recovery VERY quickly between workouts, largely due to the light weights involved. Strength routines take advantage of this to make VERY rapid gains by training the same muscle groups multiple times per week. Most BB routines are split routines which train each muscle group just once a week. This will make for MUCH slower progress.

2. A proper strength training routine will lay down a healthy foundation for future training by developing the trainee's proprioception, total body strength, and muscle balance. Many BB routines use a lot of isolation exercises and machines which, by their very nature, will not develop coordination or full body strength nearly as well - a situation that leads to injuries. Worse yet, unless you very carefully balance isolation exercises, it is very easy to develop muscle imbalances - strong anterior deltoid, weak posterior deltoid, strong quads, weak hamstrings, etc - which lead to further injuries.

3. In the early stages of weight training, the most efficient way to add muscle mass is by getting stronger. The most efficient way to get stronger is with a strength training routine (duh). In the later stages of training, high rep and high volume training - as seen in many BB routines - is useful to max out hypertrophy, but it is not necessary for the beginner.

4. A slightly less important point, but worth mentioning: the routines actually done by professional bodybuilders are often based on advantages that the pro's have: superior genetics, super strict diets, years of training, tons of supplements, and (for MANY pro's) steroids. All of these advantages - especially the steroids - let the bodybuilder recover from much more exercise; a normal person could not make progress on the same kind of volume/load. I am by NO means suggesting all BB routines make this assumption, but being aware of the source is very important.

Therefore, even if the goals are aesthetics, a nicely balanced strength training routine is still typically a better choice than a bodybuilding routine for the newbie. It's not that the BB routine won't work, but the strength routine will usually improve aesthetics just as much (if not more) while also building functional strength and maintaining a healthy body. Only when the trainee gets to intermediate and advanced stages do BB routines start to edge out strength routines in terms of aesthetics.

 

[alkemyst]

in reality for most they would be best served with a traditional type setup than a hardcore 5x5 deal. Most aren't looking to move trucks (and most in this thread are far from that) so in the end a bodybuilding type workout would give them the 'looks' they want and a routine they'd keep up with.

Every clown in the world is spouting off ripple, westside, crossfit, p90x...it's like a buzzword casserole.

 

[brikis98]

in reality for most they would be best served with a traditional type setup than a hardcore 5x5 deal. Most aren't looking to move trucks (and most in this thread are far from that) so in the end a bodybuilding type workout would give them the 'looks' they want and a routine they'd keep up with.

Every clown in the world is spouting off ripple, westside, crossfit, p90x...it's like a buzzword casserole.

If you feel like actually providing some reasoning for your opinion instead of just wasting everyone's time with name calling, I'll be happy to continue discussing this with you. Otherwise, I'll assume you are trolling and ignore you.

 

[alkemyst]

no need to provide reasoning...it'd fall on deaf ears. There are many reasons the big lift programs aren't for many people. Just look around an average gym and see what the average guy is doing.

If someone wants to get majorly serious about strength then I am all for big compound lifts. If someone wants to tone up and look good, I recommend another approach.

With big lifting comes intake of food that most don't want to deal with. I am eating every 3 hours now, it can be a bitch.

 

[brikis98]

no need to provide reasoning...it'd fall on deaf ears.

Why don't you try us.

There are many reasons the big lift programs aren't for many people. Just look around an average gym and see what the average guy is doing.

The "average guy", in case you haven't noticed, is fat, weak and consistently fails to achieve his fitness & appearance goals. Set foot in a typical gym and you'll see dozens of these "average guys": doing the same exercises with the same weight/reps/sets day after day, all the while scratching his head about why he isn't making any progress. Wasting countless hours on 3 types of bench press, the peck deck, and DB flies, wondering why his shoulders hurt, but his chest is still tiny and weak. The "average guy" doesn't know sh*t about exercise, so why the hell would you recommend emulating him?

 

[Howard]

Why don't you try us.


The "average guy", in case you haven't noticed, is fat, weak and consistently fails to achieve his fitness & appearance goals. Set foot in a typical gym and you'll see dozens of these "average guys": doing the same exercises with the same weight/reps/sets day after day, all the while scratching his head about why he isn't making any progress. Wasting countless hours on 3 types of bench press, the peck deck, and DB flies, wondering why his shoulders hurt, but his chest is still tiny and weak. The "average guy" doesn't know sh*t about exercise, so why the hell would you recommend emulating him?

Don't waste time with a troll. You'll never come across a topic he isn't an expert on.

 

[Ika]

Seems like my thread got derailed 🙁 let's see if we can get back on track.

I'm pretty confident that my legs are as strong or almost as strong as I think they are :hmm:. I tried messing around with a horizontal leg press and could reliably do around 280 lbs. I weigh 170, and my upper body exercises rarely break 30 or so each side, so this seems hugely disproportionate). What I want for my legs is tone, not strength or bulk. This probably means I should start an aerobics routine in between my "workout" days, but as of now I don't have the motivation required to start serious aerobics training. I'm just barely getting used to the idea of going to the gym every other day.

As for my goals - eventually I do want real-life strength, but first I want to be satisfied at least with the way I look. This means at least an average body build, because right now I'm all skin, fat, and bone on my upper body. To this end, should I just keep doing my routine now for a month or two, then switch over to SL5x5? I'm aware that my stability muscles are severely lacking, as I have trouble with even reliably benching half my body weight for reps (my max for 3x10 is probably around 70lbs; I weigh around 170), and I rarely feel it in my chest - always in my arms or shoulders.

The disproportion between my legs and upper body is probably why I've never really liked doing squats. What should I do?

P.S. I should probably post pictures of my current physique to give you guys an idea of where I stand. If I can borrow someone's digital camera, I'll try tomorrow. Or I can try using my netbook as a cam...

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Firstly, leg press is a very different beast than the squat. Back when I did a bodybuilding split, I could leg press over 500 pounds while my one rep max for squat was about 300. Everybody has some sort of asymmetry in the body, whether its functionally or physically. My legs are stronger than my upper body due to rotator cuff problems. Does that mean you stop working out your lower half? No, it means you just continually strive to improve the top half.

I don't think you understand how the body works. As you get on a strength-training program, your body will start to change a bit. You'll get a bit leaner and start looking better in all the right places. If you decide to cut first, you're going to lean out relatively quickly. A strength training program WILL make you look way better than you look now AND will build functional strength. You can have your cake and eat it too. Bodybuilding typically involves poorly functional movements and the aesthetic difference really won't be very noticeable for a beginner, especially while cutting.

What do you do? You do a full body workout every time you go to lift. You work your legs, a pulling motion, and a pushing motion. I don't understand why the disproportionate nature of your strength is a problem. Continue getting stronger in everything. I think you're still overestimating your leg strength. There is not as big of a difference as you think.

 

[brikis98]

Seems like my thread got derailed

Sorry. I offer this as an explanation 🙂

I'm pretty confident that my legs are as strong or almost as strong as I think they are :hmm:. I tried messing around with a horizontal leg press and could reliably do around 280 lbs. I weigh 170, and my upper body exercises rarely break 30 or so each side, so this seems hugely disproportionate).

The weight you use on the leg press is largely meaningless. I think I did over 300 on the horizontal leg press the first time I did it years ago in high school, but I severely struggled to squat 135 (actually, half squat due to poor technique and flexibility) when I first tried. On the incline leg press, I used to do over 700 for reps when my squat 1RM was still under 300. So, it is still quite possible that your legs - and the rest of your body (including the upper body) that works damn hard during the squat - aren't as strong as you think.

What I want for my legs is tone, not strength or bulk. This probably means I should start an aerobics routine in between my "workout" days, but as of now I don't have the motivation required to start serious aerobics training. I'm just barely getting used to the idea of going to the gym every other day.

Although I know what you mean, the word "tone" is not very useful. Instead, focus on "more muscle", "less muscle", "more fat", "less fat". So, when you say "more toned" you simply mean more muscle and less fat. You seem totally against the former, so that only leaves the latter option. However, you CANNOT effectively spot reduce - that is, lose fat in one specific place and not somewhere else - so don't expect to just magically have your legs start looking all shredded just because you start running. Instead, you need to tweak your diet to lose weight (see the fat loss sticky). However, trying to lose fat and lots of running will inhibit the mass and strength gains you want in the upper body, so I don't recommend this strategy at all. If anything, you should be trying to bulk up, which means your legs will NOT look any more "toned" unless you add muscle to them too.

As for my goals - eventually I do want real-life strength, but first I want to be satisfied at least with the way I look. This means at least an average body build, because right now I'm all skin, fat, and bone on my upper body. To this end, should I just keep doing my routine now for a month or two, then switch over to SL5x5?

I hate to sound like a broken record, but SL 5x5 is still probably your best bet. The routine you posted is just too damn inefficient for a beginner - a split routine with too many reps, too many exercise per muscle, and not well balanced. Since you seem to think your legs will grow comically large from the squatting, just skip the squats and do the rest of the routine as written. The bench press, rows, push-ups, crunches, overhead press pull-ups and bridges will all get your upper body in shape. And yes, I recommend you do the deadlift as well to give your back a serious workout without much threat of making your legs any bigger.

I'm aware that my stability muscles are severely lacking, as I have trouble with even reliably benching half my body weight for reps (my max for 3x10 is probably around 70lbs; I weigh around 170), and I rarely feel it in my chest - always in my arms or shoulders.

It could be a lack of priorioception and coordination to balance the weight, but it could also just be poor technique. Stronglifts has a decent bench press guide.

 

[spamsk8r]

Squats don't just work the legs, the work the entire body and increase good hormone output (more testosterone and growth hormone), which increases muscle mass and reduces body fat. Plus they take way less time than doing 100 different useless isolation movements. Do squats, deadlifts, bench press. Eat real food. Get strong and look good. Simple, but not easy.

 

[alkemyst]

Why don't you try us.


The "average guy", in case you haven't noticed, is fat, weak and consistently fails to achieve his fitness & appearance goals. Set foot in a typical gym and you'll see dozens of these "average guys": doing the same exercises with the same weight/reps/sets day after day, all the while scratching his head about why he isn't making any progress. Wasting countless hours on 3 types of bench press, the peck deck, and DB flies, wondering why his shoulders hurt, but his chest is still tiny and weak. The "average guy" doesn't know sh*t about exercise, so why the hell would you recommend emulating him?

where I live that's not the average guy. However I come back to the gym after a layoff and they all look the same.

Everyone cries about how they got injured, it makes my real injury suck.

 

[alkemyst]

Don't waste time with a troll. You'll never come across a topic he isn't an expert on.

when have YOU proven me wrong? I am not trolling in this. I have been lifting since I was in middle school, I am 38 now.

To catch you up, I have a current bookshelf of 300 books, I tested near genius professionally, I aced the ASVAB, I gave up my seat in Pharmacy school on only had an AA degree at the time, I do my own autowork, I am active in charities, I am active with animal causes, etc.

Sorry I didn't settle on being mediocre.