Afhanistan - US sanctioned religious persecution in action

[peonyu]

"KABUL, Afghanistan — The jail commander had remained silent as the prisoner, Sayed Mussa, told a reporter about his journey from Islam to Christianity: his secret baptism nine years earlier, his faith in Jesus Christ and the promise of heaven.

But when Mr. Mussa said he believed in the Bible but also loved the Koran’s teachings, it was too much. “So you love the Koran and the Bible?” the commander broke in incredulously. “What kind of love is this?”

A guard thumbing Muslim prayer beads squared his shoulders and started to rise. “You want me to beat him?” he asked.

“No, no,” the commander said, calming himself and waving off the guard. “Everyone has the right to express themselves.”

Such has been Mr. Mussa’s life since his arrest for converting to Christianity nine months ago in a case that illustrates the contradictions — and limits — of religious freedom in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan’s Constitution, established in 2004, guarantees that people are “free to exercise their faith.” But it also leaves it open for the courts to rely on Shariah, or Islamic law, on issues like conversion. Under some interpretations of Shariah, leaving Islam is considered apostasy, an offense punishable by hanging.

Mr. Mussa, 46, is staring at the prospect of a death sentence."


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/world/asia/06mussa.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=world



Great, our troops are dying over there for that type of freedom. Freedom to be Muslim, or die if you are not. Sounds just like life under the Taliban except it is US sanctioned this time as "a free democratic people in Afghanistan" [yea obviously that is the case...they are really free].


Im sure Egypt will gain freedom in the same manner as this once the US backed "Pro-Democracy" people take over.

 

[blackangst1]

Afghanistan’s Constitution, established in 2004, guarantees that people are “free to exercise their faith.” But it also leaves it open for the courts to rely on Shariah, or Islamic law, on issues like conversion.

US sanctioned religious persecution not found.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

US sanctioned religious persecution not found.

/Thread

 

[peonyu]

US sanctioned religious persecution not found.

It is sanctioned since our government had a VERY heavy hand in writing their constitution. Allowing Islamic law [of all things] to have a legal voice does count as US sanctioned religious discrimination. Islamic law would not be a legitimate legal system in Afghanistan if it was not given the OK from someone from the US.

And as far as Islamic law itself goes, it is a "Islam or else" system, and is likely the most bigoted law system in the world today. Its achievements include blowing up the Buddha statues in Afghanistan since those equated to "idol worship" in Islamic law. And of course, stoning converts from Islam like this case. That sure sounds like freedom to me.


So yes, our soldiers are dying in Afghanistan fighting in defense of Sharia law. A law system that actively persecutes non-Muslims.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Don't like what going on, step the fuck up and go do something about it.

 

[peonyu]

Nice non-retort. Guess you dont have anything real to say besides /thread, when clearly you did not know what the hell you were replying about.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Nice non-retort. Guess you dont have anything real to say besides /thread, when clearly you did not know what the hell you were replying about.

The fact is that we don't really care about Afghanistan any more. It's like holding onto a fiery coal in an explosives factory. You want to get rid of that bitch, but if you do things around you will really go to hell fast.

Doesn't make it right, but all other considerations aren't being considered.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Nice non-retort. Guess you dont have anything real to say besides /thread, when clearly you did not know what the hell you were replying about.

Any thread you start is pure bullshit and doesn't deserve a reply other than what I provided.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The fact is that we don't really care about Afghanistan any more. It's like holding onto a fiery coal in an explosives factory. You want to get rid of that bitch, but if you do things around you will really go to hell fast.

Doesn't make it right, but all other considerations aren't being considered.

It's just been a useful distraction since 2003, not one politician wanted this war to be won after the initial invasion and i doubt any officer above majors grade wanted it either.

Fuck Afghanistan, fuck Iraq, we have politicians who need to be supported and corporations that need to profit.

Didn't work in the UK, worked like a charm in the US though.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

"KABUL, Afghanistan — The jail commander had remained silent as the prisoner, Sayed Mussa, told a reporter about his journey from Islam to Christianity: his secret baptism nine years earlier, his faith in Jesus Christ and the promise of heaven.

But when Mr. Mussa said he believed in the Bible but also loved the Koran’s teachings, it was too much. “So you love the Koran and the Bible?” the commander broke in incredulously. “What kind of love is this?”

A guard thumbing Muslim prayer beads squared his shoulders and started to rise. “You want me to beat him?” he asked.

“No, no,” the commander said, calming himself and waving off the guard. “Everyone has the right to express themselves.”

Such has been Mr. Mussa’s life since his arrest for converting to Christianity nine months ago in a case that illustrates the contradictions — and limits — of religious freedom in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan’s Constitution, established in 2004, guarantees that people are “free to exercise their faith.” But it also leaves it open for the courts to rely on Shariah, or Islamic law, on issues like conversion. Under some interpretations of Shariah, leaving Islam is considered apostasy, an offense punishable by hanging.

Mr. Mussa, 46, is staring at the prospect of a death sentence."


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/world/asia/06mussa.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=world



Great, our troops are dying over there for that type of freedom. Freedom to be Muslim, or die if you are not. Sounds just like life under the Taliban except it is US sanctioned this time as "a free democratic people in Afghanistan" [yea obviously that is the case...they are really free].


Im sure Egypt will gain freedom in the same manner as this once the US backed "Pro-Democracy" people take over.

One report from an "unbiased" source? Just piss off.

 

[peonyu]

Any thread you start is pure bullshit and doesn't deserve a reply other than what I provided.

From what I have read from you, its better you dont post in my threads anyway. You have the intelligence of a bread crumb and it shows. Especially since you are one of those idiots who does not even know what he is replying about in nearly any thread, and your comments are limited to lame one liners.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

From what I have read from you, its better you dont post in my threads anyway. You have the intelligence of a bread crumb and it shows. Especially since you are one of those idiots who does not even know what he is replying about in nearly any thread, and your comments are limited to lame one liners.

You must be looking in a mirror. So Pee On You!!!

 

[peonyu]

One report from an "unbiased" source? Just piss off.

Article One of the constitution of Afghanistan states that "Afghanistan is an Islamic Republic, independent, unitary and indivisible state." Article 2 of the constitution of Iraq states that "Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation." Both states identify Islam as the bedrock of the state and also the law of the land.

No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.
-Article 2, A, constitution of Iraq

In Afghanistan, no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam.
-Article 3, constitution of Afghanistan



Iraq has the same constitution, they are both Islamic states. You are a fool.

More sources -
http://www.persecution.org/2011/02/07/afghan-rights-fall-short-for-christian-converts/
http://www.afghanistannews.net/stor...ghan-Rights-Fall-Short-for-Christian-Converts
http://www.eutimes.net/2011/02/afghan-rights-fall-short-for-christian-converts/

Now why dont you pissoff.

 

[peonyu]

You must be looking in a mirror. So Pee On You!!!

Funny!! Another one liner! Keep those nuggets coming.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Article One of the constitution of Afghanistan states that "Afghanistan is an Islamic Republic, independent, unitary and indivisible state." Article 2 of the constitution of Iraq states that "Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation." Both states identify Islam as the bedrock of the state and also the law of the land.

No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.
-Article 2, A, constitution of Iraq

In Afghanistan, no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam.
-Article 3, constitution of Afghanistan



Iraq has the same constitution, they are both Islamic states. You are a fool.

More sources -
http://www.persecution.org/2011/02/07/afghan-rights-fall-short-for-christian-converts/
http://www.afghanistannews.net/stor...ghan-Rights-Fall-Short-for-Christian-Converts
http://www.eutimes.net/2011/02/afghan-rights-fall-short-for-christian-converts/

Now why dont you pissoff.

No son, just piss off, i'm not asking you to provide sources, i'm TELLING you that you are wrong.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Funny!! Another one liner! Keep those nuggets coming.

He's not too bright, don't hold that against others that disagree with you based on what is real though.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Funny!! Another one liner! Keep those nuggets coming.

Let me know when you post something that truly deserves any consideration. One or two isolated incidents aren't worth the time or trouble.

 

[peonyu]

No son, just piss off, i'm not asking you to provide sources, i'm TELLING you that you are wrong.

And your a moron, im TELLING you that. And the difference is, im right. Why ? Simple. Both Afghanistan and Iraq needed US approval for Islam/Sharia to be the basis for their constitutions. They got it. Our troops are dying in defense of Islam since both of those nations are not true Democracies, they are Islamic states with limited elections. And the legal system that we allowed, is sentencing religious converts to death for leaving Islam. US approved ? Yep.

Anyways, I bet you are one of those gungho pro Bush, pro Iraq war fellows. The ones who were fooled the most is you. Operation Iraqi freedom ? Really...And they get Sharia law/a Islamic state instead. Complete with American support, Sucks to be on your side.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

And your a moron

My what is a moron? Not to bright, are ya?

I'm going to have to excuse myself because i'd get banned for telling you what i think of you.

Cheerio.

 

[Howard]

good thread is good

 

[Brovane]

It's just been a useful distraction since 2003, not one politician wanted this war to be won after the initial invasion and i doubt any officer above majors grade wanted it either.

Fuck Afghanistan, fuck Iraq, we have politicians who need to be supported and corporations that need to profit.

Didn't work in the UK, worked like a charm in the US though.

I am confident that General Petraeus wants the war to be won in Afghanistan.

 

[Brovane]

Article One of the constitution of Afghanistan states that "Afghanistan is an Islamic Republic, independent, unitary and indivisible state." Article 2 of the constitution of Iraq states that "Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation." Both states identify Islam as the bedrock of the state and also the law of the land.

No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.
-Article 2, A, constitution of Iraq

In Afghanistan, no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam.
-Article 3, constitution of Afghanistan



Iraq has the same constitution, they are both Islamic states. You are a fool.

More sources -
http://www.persecution.org/2011/02/07/afghan-rights-fall-short-for-christian-converts/
http://www.afghanistannews.net/stor...ghan-Rights-Fall-Short-for-Christian-Converts
http://www.eutimes.net/2011/02/afghan-rights-fall-short-for-christian-converts/

Now why dont you pissoff.

Unfortunately neither country is really ready for full religious freedom as are most islamic countries in the Middle East. So the US does the best that we can to setup a democracy. It isn't perfect but it is the best we can do considering the situation on the ground in the country with the population. Hopefully as education continues people will eventually realize the importance of individual choice and freedoms.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I am confident that General Petraeus wants the war to be won in Afghanistan.

I left Afghanistan a while ago and i can tell you that he knows it will never be won.

So does every other thinking human being with an IQ over 10.

 

[Brovane]

I left Afghanistan a while ago and i can tell you that he knows it will never be won.

So does every other thinking human being with an IQ over 10.

I think maybe we need to define winning. Are we refering to a situation similar to how we defined victory in Iraqi?

 

[Lemon law]

I find my self somehow siding with JOS on this dogfight fight. In the giant turd that Afghanistan has been and still is heading in, it seems quite odd to focus on just one ex Muslim seeking to convert to Christianity. Even Ossama Bin Laden has a doctrine of respecting people of the book, namely Muslims, Christians and Jews. And leaves the bulk of his intellectual ire to fall on those with no religious indoctrination they slavishly follow.

But JOS somewhat hits the nail on the head when he says, "Fuck Afghanistan, fuck Iraq, we have politicians who need to be supported and corporations that need to profit.

Didn't work in the UK, worked like a charm in the US though. "

But wait, it worked like a damn charm for the UK for hundreds of years when the Brits had the largest colonial empire in the world before WW1 and WW2 had the side effect of ending Colonialism. And now that the USA are now the most powerful short sighted fools on the planet, why should we learn any valuable lessons from the past?

As we came into Afghanistan, guns blazing, with the whole idea of advancing democracy. And in the process we allied ourselves with the greatest corrupt thugs in recent Afghan history. And now, oh goodie, we not only have a totally ineffectual Afghan government where no institution in government works, not the courts, not the army, even better yet, we have spread the blight to destabilizing Pakistan, Iran, and even India. And then even better than that, we do it on the cheap cheap cheap. Which means all we can do is have ineffectual and temporary military victories, while non mobile Afghan catch hell, watch us play wacko mole with the Taliban, and as soon as the Nato occupation goes else where to extend the misery,
the Taliban is right back in control. At least the Brits used to have it right, they planned to be in control for the long term, and all Nato does is to plan to flop. Meanwhile, lots of US money to be made immediately. I could go on and on, regarding Afghanistan, but in 2011, a Nato victory looks further off than it did in 2002. I will not totally bad mouth Petranus who wants to win, but wanting is nothing, after all people in hell want ice water.

As for Iraq, that is another clusterfuck, as long as there are a bunch of Nato troops in Iraq, it may provide a veneer of stability, but as soon as those troops leave, Iraq may descend into civil war.