Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Tisk, tisk you love to say it. Be honest with your feelings.
I was thinking about your qualities as a human being, your selflessness, your acceptence of how others in need should be helped, and I came to the conclusion that this country would be better off with you in Iraq, or anywhere else. Frankly, I don't like you, and I am sure the feeling is mutual.
Our consitiution was drafted my men who WANTED a united country and had common purpose. I was about as ideal a situation as could practically imagined. We did it. No outside coercion. Iraq isnt like the US, it's like the Balkans. Waiting to fragment, because it was never a natural country. It exists because of the last "liberation" from the Ottoman Empire, who were smart enough to pretty much ignore it. Holding up a piece of paper isnt going to do a damned thing in Iraq. The best thing would be to see how groups interact and then let the region divide naturally with as little chaos as possible.
I'll thank you never to call me "selfless" again; I find that to be a disgusting term that implies nothing more than a lack of any form of personal value, and I'm afraid that simply *isn't* me.
You're right that the Founding Fathers wanted a united nation; that doesn't mean that all the people in all the colonies, who were divided by race, religion and even national origin (where even WHITE people couldn't get along with each other because of their national and cultural pride issues...), but even so the founder forged on and created something that was greater than the sum of its parts. You are wrong, however, to say that it involved no outside coercion or influence; it was precisely because of the long series of abuses by George III that the Founding Fathers decided to "overthrow" their government and institute new government. They did not simply get up one morning and decide it would be the nice thing to do. The people who are to be the new founders of Iraq's new government have a similar opportunity.
Your example of Iraq "waiting to fragment" is both flawed and yet holds a grain of truth. Iraq IS waiting to break because of its long-held culture of religious intolerance and in-fighting between different tribes. They are not "united" under a common banner that guarantees the freedom of everyone to mind their own lives and consciences, which is precisely what they need right now. The starting point is a constitution that will empower the government to protect those needs but to otherwise leave the Iraqi people free to pursue their own interests, restraining them only from harming one another. Education is needed to teach the Iraqi people the virtues of religious tolerance and natural rights and freedom. It is precisely in this capacity that they NEED a people like the Americans to help them through this process. It won't be easy, and mistakes will be made, you simply have to accept that as part of the process. The same holds true in Afghanistan, which is where this discussion started, thanks for derailing it a bit, and if we can help there, we should do so.
To say we should just "watch and see what happens" is foolishness at best. We all know what will happen: religious fighting between the various tribes will begin again, and there will be a whole lot of chaos, not "as little as possible." Where did you find that nonsense?
As for whether you like me or not, I frankly don't give a damn. I've got better things to do than worry about whether some shmuck on a message board likes me or not.
Jason
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