Afghanistan calls for Jihad

[xyyz]

<<

<< The thing that really scares me about the people we may be fighting is if they are anything like the people flying those planes, they are not afraid to die. >>



Thats ok I am not afraid to kill them either besides men that aren't afraid to die are typically easier to kill. >>



Okay... this view is shared by many and it's moronic...

You think the'll simply curse at you when you shoot them... no... they'll be shooting back at you... and inflicting many losses as well... remember these are really hardened and highly trained individuals.... everyday for years they've been fighting... they're pretty good at it.

 

[b1er]

And our guys have never touched a weapon..... right. Do you think everyone got replaced after the Gulf War? Our pilots are the ones that have had 10 years of training dropping bombs on Iraq. A handful of troops held off thousands in Somalia when those Blackhawks went down. The point is our troops aren't a bunch of newbies. I say they should" Go forth and kick a$$".

God bless our Nation.

B1er
USAF

 

[etech]

Patton

The Japanese and Germans in WWII also thought that the US was afraid to fight.

They were wrong.

 

[Pabster]

Come on, some people here need to open their eyes. Afghanistan is an extremely rough and rugged terrain. I know, because I've visited there several times in previous years. Very, very sparsely populated. Mountaineous, and there are (quite literally) an infinite number of places for someone like Bin Laden to "hide". I believe we can get him, but it won't be instantaneous and it will take time. The idea that we can simply march in and "blow 'em off the map" sounds nice but has no footing in reality.

 

[xyyz]

<< And our guys have never touched a weapon..... right. Do you think everyone got replaced after the Gulf War? Our pilots are the ones that have had 10 years of training dropping bombs on Iraq. A handful of troops held off thousands in Somalia when those Blackhawks went down. The point is our troops aren't a bunch of newbies. I say they should" Go forth and kick a$$".

God bless our Nation.

B1er
USAF >>



Who's saying they haven't touched weapons? Those are your words... certainly not mine. I'm stating obvious fact here... they are highly trained... and right now the common preception is that they will be pushovers. War has been a way of life for these people for ages.

These people aren't the Somalians... remember a handful of them handed the former Soviets their asses back to them...

You haven't been listening to the news here... this war will not be won by air superiority... you come to bomb.. and they'll flee in their mountains... this will be a total groundwar. While we are technically superior... they have no fear and they know every inch of their country and they're amonst the most fierce fighters in the world.

Let's think with cooler minds here and be rational about things... let's not be gung-ho... that attitude will get alot of American troops killed.

We need to study them... and expliot their weaknesses.... not run up to them and start shooting.

 

[Mrburns2007]

Isn't afghanistan pretty much all war'ed out ?

I'm sure the people there really hate the taliban and the only muslim nation that even bothers to help them is Pakistan and there becoming more embarrased by the Talibans behaviour.

The rest of the muslim world treats afghanistan like rednecks treated Tim Mcviegh when he wanted to start a war agianst this country.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Afghanistan calls for Jihad >>



Afganistan is about to be turned into a heap of smoldering ash.

 

[db]

Sheesh....how many times in the past have they called for jihad?
A lot, I would guess.

 

[etech]

Afganistan willl not be destroyed or bombed back into the stone age. We are not at war with all of the Afgan people.

We are at war with their government, the Taliban, and the terrorists they support. After the Taliban is disposed and the terrorists brought to justice we will support the people of Afganistan with aid and help them rebuild their country. We did it with Germany and we did it with Japan. Our goal will be to destroy the terrorists and the people that support them. We will help those who are left.

 

[Nemesis77]

The irony in this is that your biggest ally in the region in case of war against Taleban might be.... IRAN! Iran and Taleban hate each other guts! In fact, Iran came close to attack Talebans positions in Afganistan some time back. The Army of Iran was waiting at the border when they backed out.

But ground combat in Afganistan... It aint pretty! In Somalia, the troops who held out against somalis after the Blackhawks went down were elite. Rangers and Delta Force if I remember correctly. Afgans are another matter. In large-scale war, you couldn't just use elite forces. Well, Marines would be suitable .

They are battle-hardened after YEARS of combat (against fellow countrymen and against the soviet war-machine). They have no fear (just ask soviets). Fact is, they have never been beaten. They are anything but pushover! Your best hope in winning there are:

1. Taleban opposition in the north takes advantage of the situation and liberates Afganistan.
2. The people of Afganistan kick the Taleban out (they certainly would love to do just that).

When you fight in Afganistan, work towards those two goals. And don't be negative if Iran decides to make a hit or two against the Taleban.

 

[DarkKnight]

Are war against the Muslim countries would be very unwise since they control almost all of the worlds oil supply.

 

[etech]

The war is not intended to be against the Muslim countries. It is against terrorists and the countries that support them.

I think many of the countries of that region will support NATO operations. They also have much to lose from the fundamentalist Muslims with their distorted version of the Muslim religion.

Please understand it will be difficult for them to support the "unbelievers" in this war, but I believe that they will.

 

[BrintonAA]

<< Come on, some people here need to open their eyes. Afghanistan is an extremely rough and rugged terrain. I know, because I've visited there several times in previous years. >>


You visited Afghanistan? Are you a reporter


<< Anyone else find it rather damning that Afghanistan is already on the defensive, calling for a "Holy War"? To me that's like an inch away from an admission of guilt. >>


My thoughts exactly.

 

[MadRat]

The US Army is going through a transformation for just such warfare. In Afghanistan the rebels and Taliban readily operate out in the open outside of rifle range due to the lack of long range artillery. They do have some rockets, mortars, howitzers, and recoilles rifles, but not enough to sustain a barrage.

The US Army had moved to heavy snipers and multiplied the number of light snipers on the platoon level. The heavy snipers use .50 caliber rifles accurate out to one mile. They've been testing 20mm rifles that are accurate out to almost 2 miles. The light snipers can place 1-foot groups at 500-yards with special 7.62mm rounds. These distances are far outside the range of the Taliban snipers.

Sure we will take casaulties, but the overall death will fall on the Taliban side. Guerrilla warfare in Chechnya was effective because they had alot of places to hide in buildings, plus their people were trained for urban warfare. The Taliban specializes in living off the desert, but as far as fighting goes they try to win by attrition. The rebels have a better defense than the Taliban has an offense. Likewise they do not have the effective numbers to overrun the Taliban. This is the basis of their stalemate.

The Taliban has superior numbers of personell but cannot organize above a company level due to their horrible organization. Even the "paper tiger" Iraqi war machine could operate at the brigade level. The lack of organization makes it difficult to attack and counter-attack. The timing necessary for effective fighting in the western world in up to the division and corps level. That is like outnumbering the enemy 10:1.

The Taliban is really rampant with drug users. The average fighter in the Taliban does not want to be there. They are forced to be there because to walk away is sure death. They stay because the leaders of the Taliban regularly kill people in public displays in order to terrorize their people. (That is the basis of why the civilized countries do not use public executions, to not terrorize people!) This is no different than the soldiers of Iraq. They do not want to be there, but have no choice. Drug use is just one of many problems afflicting these people. All of the problems compound to a pretty lousy fighting force.

 

[Nemesis77]

(edited slightly)



<< The average fighter in the Taliban does not want to be there. They are forced to be there because to walk away is sure death. They stay because the leaders of the Taliban regularly kill people in public displays in order to terrorize their people. This is no different than the soldiers of Iraq. They do not want to be there, but have no choice. All of the problems compound to a pretty lousy fighting force. >>



Well, the core of Taleban force are the religious fanatics. They are nothing like the iraqi forces. Iraqi were demoralised, they did not want to fight. Taleban is extremely moralised. Fighting against the unbelievers is a sure way to gain attention of Allah. If they die doing so, so be it, they will gain their acces to Paradise. Point is, unlike iraqis, they are not afraid to die. Enemy that has no regard for his own life? That's the worst kind of enemy, just ask the marines who assaulted Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Okinawa...

What would I do? Well (assuming USA had the full backing of neighbouring countries)... First, send in the Special Forces. Hit Osama Bin Ladin and his men. Hit them hard. Taleban will propable protest and attack american they can find (inside Afganistan that is). In best case scenario, conflict ends here. If not... Then, send in 30.000 - 50.000 men (more if needed) supported by combat helicopters, APC's and tanks. Maybe some NATO forces as well (british mostly) Use good men, marines would be suitable. Depending where you enter the country, try to make contact with the government forces in the north. Together with them, drive to Kabul. Surround it, and neutralise it. Pakistan is a big mystery here, so make sure that Taleban has no route there (just in case), cut their supply-lines.

You would then propably have only western Afganistan to worry about. If Iran decides to hit Taleban at this point, let them. In best case, Taleban gets crushed between NATO and Iran.

Anyway, at this point you could reduce your troops. Arm the government troops and support them, they should be able to take care of the weakened Taleban.

No collateral damage! The majority of people of Afganistan will propably welcome you as liberators, make sure you win their hearts.

After the war it's imperative that Afganistan receives aid! They must feel like that they have been liberated! Civilans must be helped, infrastrucure restored. And relations between you and Iran might improve. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Well, that's just me...

EDIT: Well, you might need more that 30.000 - 50.000 men.

 

[superkeith]

yes we must expect casualties in a campaign against the taliban...but their religious fanaticism will not overcome a better equipped and organized military that is fighting with equal resolve and air support available at a moment's notice. yes, ground troops will be essential and battles will be bloody. but to disregard our complete air superiority is to ignore perhaps our greatest tactical advantage.

sacrifice is difficult, but it's time to stand up for the victims of the wtc bombings, the pentagon bombing, the embassy bombings, the barracks bombing and the cole bombing. let this fight against terrorism become a defining moment so that our generation will take its place among america's greatest and bravest. dubya is right...as the world's leading democracy and defenders of freedom, it is our historical obligation to fight the good fight. let not future generations blame us for an opportunity missed. it is time for a new world order based upon civility and may each of tuesday's victims be so considered a point of light on a path to a better tomorrow.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< yes we must expect casualties in a campaign against the taliban...but their religious fanaticism will not overcome a better equipped and organized military that is fighting with equal resolve and air support available at a moment's notice. yes, ground troops will be essential and battles will be bloody. but to disregard our complete air superiority is to ignore perhaps our greatest tactical advantage. >>



True, but I would guess that there wouldb't be big Taleban units facing you, mostly small units hidden everywhere. It's difficult to find them (espesially from the air) and it'd difficult to flush them out. That's how they defeated soviets, and soviets also had 100% air-superiority and superior organisation and firepower.

And while the war rages in Afganistan, you must expect terrorists to attack USA. It might be more difficult for them to attack mainland USA, but not impossible. But that threat can be severly reduced by successful inital attack by the special forces against Bin Ladin.

Damn, I regret now that I taped over "The Beast of War". It's about the war in Afganistan...

 

[nicowju]

Wonderful... Jihad. Supposedly, most of the Afghan citizens don't like the Taliban due to its oppressiveness and harsh treatment of women.

But yeah, casualties And we can't win just through an airwar or throwing thousands of missiles and bombs into their land (conventional, not nukes)

 

[SP33Demon]

<<<<Are war against the Muslim countries would be very unwise since they control almost all of the worlds oil supply. >>>

This would be an opportune moment to get the oil, don't you think? hehehe... Time to slaughter Muslim fundamentalists who decree that all Jews, Christians, and non believers should be destroyed (From the Koran paraphrased)...

 

[darkjester]

<< Saw on MSNBC that Afghanistan has threatened to attack any nation that aids the US in attacking them. Also they have called for a Jihad, Holy War, in which all Muslims are called to fight. This could be very bad considering attack on Afghanistan looks imminant. This easily has the potential for WWIII. If it plays out as so, there are a lot of Muslims in this world and it could be very very bad for everyone, assumiing they are fvcked up enough to follow the declaration of their extremist wing. >>


News for Afghanistan: anyone that helps us attack them has already declared war on them. It's like getting into a boxing ring and after your opponent hits you you say, "I'm going to fight you!" Morons. On top of that, good luck attacking all our allies... the thinner they spread themselves, the shorter it'll take to turn their country into a giant parking lot.

And as for their jihad, that just means when we're dropping bombs that we don't have to worry about such things as civilian casualties. Afterall, they're all soldiers in their jihad then.

 

[zippy]

<< a hero in war doesnt die for his country, he makes the other poor bastard die for his. or something to that effect. it's a churchill quote i think >>



=



<< "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. "
- General George Patton (1885-1945) >>

 

[sandorski]

I'm sure that the Soviet Union was as confident as many here. They were quickly awakened once within Afghanistan's borders. To expect this to be a walk in the park is folly.

 

[stingbandel]

Looks like the war can't be avoided anymore....

 

[Nemesis77]

<<
This would be an opportune moment to get the oil, don't you think? hehehe... Time to slaughter Muslim fundamentalists who decree that all Jews, Christians, and non believers should be destroyed (From the Koran paraphrased)...
>>



Really? To my knowledge Koran say that jews and christians are "of the word", but only muslims "walk the right path". So Koran recognizes that christians and jews are of right religion, but the are one a wrong path so to speak.

Sure, muslim fundamentalists may say whole lot of things... Just like christians fundamentalists ("This attack was caused by gays!" -Jerry Falwell) or jewish fundamentalist can. The door swings both ways. Overwhelming majority of muslims don't want to kill jews or christians.

 

[Chad]

"Who's saying they haven't touched weapons? Those are your words... certainly not mine."

He was using Hyperbole to illustrate his point more clearly.

"I'm stating obvious fact here... they are highly trained... and right now the common preception is that they will be pushovers. War has been a way of life for these people for ages."

Didn't they say this same thing about the Iraqies imperial guard or whatever? Yeah... they were badass's weren't they?

"These people aren't the Somalians... remember a handful of them handed the former Soviets their asses back to them..."

Two points.... 1. The Soviet is not what they used to be... and certainly are NOTHING compared to US forces. 2. They were ONLY able to accomplish this because we aided, armed, informed and taught them how.

"You haven't been listening to the news here... this war will not be won by air superiority... you come to bomb.. and they'll flee in their mountains... this will be a total groundwar. While we are technically superior... they have no fear and they know every inch of their country and they're amonst the most fierce fighters in the world."

Then you do not understand the mentality of our war machine. Yes they will fleee to the mountains. But our patience and perserverance in a sustained attack will weaken them into an unorganized, uncommunicable blob of individual scraps that we can dominate. This not to mention what we can and will do to them through sanctions and through high tech means. Your thinking of our Vietnam war machine. We've learned how to fight these kinds of people now... and our war machine has changed much. Your underestimation of our capabilities is exactly what the Afgans will probably predict also... to their own demise.

"Let's think with cooler minds here and be rational about things... let's not be gung-ho... that attitude will get alot of American troops killed."

We are always calm cool and methodical with our war making. You are going to see a cold, brutal and relentless attack like the world has never witnessed. And mercy will not be something we will give. The only real question is... once we commence, how will the world interpret our brutal cold heartedness after a few years, when the Afgans will be begging for our mercy to a deaf American ear.