Afghan Strikes by Taliban Get Pakistan Help, U.S. Aides Say

[Lemon law]

Anyone can string words together like tvarad did with "Pakistani army PULLS ALL THE LEVERS IN PAKISTAN. Even a fly can't take a s**t in that country without them knowing about it", but saying those words does not make them true. Can those words withstand the tests of reality?

If the Pakistani army is so all powerful, how do you explain Musharraf getting the boot when he violated the Pakistani constitution on term limits? Musharraf had the unquestioning support of the Pakistani army and even the support of the people. But when he tried for term three, he became an enemy of Pakistani democracy and it was the people who demanded he must go.

Maybe you might try again tvarad, your statement does not meet the reality test.

 

[Lemon law]

Straight from the why do we still fail in Afghanistan department , the following comes the New York Times as it details the Obama administration's decision making process.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03...litics/28prexy.html?hp

All of those 100% US inputs without asking for a single Afghan or Pakistani input on how its likely to play in the Afghan equivalent of Peroria???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

At least this column may give a different perspective.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03...inion/27brooks.html?em

 

[Taejin]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Bullshit to undermine Pakistan. We should throw the fucking American aid back on their faces.

lol you just sit there quietly with your twisted little world view

 

[Lemon law]

I would assume the USA is skating on rather thin ice regarding Pakistan, at any point, Pakistan can shut down its ports to incoming US shipping, and there goes the US supply line into Afghanistan.

Its military logistic 101, an army travels on its stomach, and once the supply line is cut, there goes everything. Of course there is always airfreight, 3x the cost and nothing big and heavy, and even then there is the issue of Pakistani airspace which Pakistan can declare off limits.

Of course there is another option, go hat in hand to Iran and grovel for an alternate supply line. Maybe in four years there may be a railroad through the Northern Stans, but the Russians control the incoming terminals.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: crisscross
So much for Pakistan being an ally in the war on terror. It blows my mind how Pakistan is able to get away with all the shit they pull and still get massive amounts of AID from America.

The fact is they cannot be trusted never could;


I believe this because of the simple fact that their religion allows even requires them to lie;

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. One of those circumstances is to gain the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

In fact they are obligated to lie;

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746) - "[it is] obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... Whether the purpose is war, settling a disagreement, or gaining the sympathy of a victim legally entitled to retaliate... it is not unlawful to lie when any of these aims can only be attained through lying. But is is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression..."

It is because of this that a ?non-believer? can never ever under any circumstance trust the word of a Muslim as anything can be twisted to fall under the guise of a permitted or compelled lie.

This is why they can say one thing then do another, it is why they can say they are on our side and still be on the other. All we can do is hope they will do what we ask, we can never expect them to and need to plan as much for them not to as we do for them to.

 

[Lemon law]

And now we have the sociopath assertion of "I believe this because of the simple fact that their religion allows even requires them to lie"

And good ole GWB&co, those fine Christians lied about Saddam WMD, Uranium from Niger, rocket tubes, etc etc etc. Are all Christians lying sacks of shit because Christianity requires lies?

I for one think not, its more just human nature to assert bogus arguments that feather nests. Don't blame religion for human sin.

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I would assume the USA is skating on rather thin ice regarding Pakistan, at any point, Pakistan can shut down its ports to incoming US shipping, and there goes the US supply line into Afghanistan.

Its military logistic 101, an army travels on its stomach, and once the supply line is cut, there goes everything. Of course there is always airfreight, 3x the cost and nothing big and heavy, and even then there is the issue of Pakistani airspace which Pakistan can declare off limits.

Of course there is another option, go hat in hand to Iran and grovel for an alternate supply line. Maybe in four years there may be a railroad through the Northern Stans, but the Russians control the incoming terminals.

The record of surrender-monkey pakistanis in raising the white flag so far:

1) 1965: one week after starting the fight.
2) 1971: two weeks before 93000 of it's brave soldiers surrendered to Indian forces in Bangladesh
3) 1999: two months before being chased out of Kargil after being caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

You could say that their record is improving from weeks to months, so they must have been doing something right, but

4) less than 12 hours after Colin Powell's call to Musharaff on September 13th 2001, they decided to throw the Taliban under the bus and do the bidding of the Americans.

All it would take is another ultimatum and you can bet that they will bend over and ask the Americans to do as they please.

 

[Lemon law]

Tvarad may have a minor point with, "The record of surrender-monkey pakistanis in raising the white flag so far:

1) 1965: one week after starting the fight.
2) 1971: two weeks before 93000 of it's brave soldiers surrendered to Indian forces in Bangladesh
3) 1999: two months before being chased out of Kargil after being caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

You could say that their record is improving from weeks to months, so they must have been doing something right, but

4) less than 12 hours after Colin Powell's call to Musharaff on September 13th 2001, they decided to throw the Taliban under the bus and do the bidding of the Americans.

All it would take is another ultimatum and you can bet that they will bend over and ask the Americans to do as they please."

But it still misses the point. Pakistan is in the generic position you or I would be in if we lived next door to Tyson. Its a no brainer that Tyson could beat, you, I, and anyone else to a bloody pulp with one hand tied behind his back.

And for Pakistan that 800 pound Gorilla is India that has a Kashmir ongoing dispute with Pakistan and is about six times larger than Pakistan. And in terms of the USA, which is playing off both India and Pakistan, why trade domination by India for domination by the USA. Especially since the USA has a track record of just being in things for only US short term interests.

As for the Colin Powell call to Musharraf on 9/13/2009, think of it more in the movie about the Godfather terms, Powell just made Mushie an offer he could not refuse, who wants to wake up next to the severed head of a horse? And it still misses what the original deal was, Pakistan leases a land route in and
the US stays the hell out of Pakistani affairs.

If the US had been originally committed to winning in Afghanistan and had been responsible, we would not have gone in with so few troops, and could have caught the Taliban and Al-Quida in a pincher like tactic. Instead the US relied on the Afghan Northern alliance to chase AL-Quida and the Taliban into the tribal areas of Pakistan, and then mission accomplished, the Northern Alliance went back into Afghanistan, and set up their corruption business at the same old stands. And Nato has never had any sufficient military troop numbers to do much of anything ever since.

And Nato has just stagnated ever since. And Nato is strong enough and has such tactically superior weapons that Nato can't be dislodged, but has such few troops that they can't come even close to policing the country against the Taliban and Al-Quida.

But in terms of any country in the region, they don't think of the USA as anything reliable or a country that will keep its word. As for the people in Pakistan, per capita, US aid has amounted to $9.00, and does not benefit the population because its in the form of military hardware.