affirmative action and hispanics

Pandamonium

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2001
1,628
0
76
I'm not for affirmative action. Not now, at least. I'm of the opinion that AA programs have been in effect for long enough.

My understanding was that AA was to give minority groups that were systematically disadvantaged by the government a level playing ground. So because slavery, blacks deserve AA, while native americans are given AA because of the colonial times.

I don't agree with how japanese-americans (or asians in general) don't get a break for internment camps or cheap labor during the railroad construction. I understand that this demographic seems successful enough to not "need" AA, but I view need and deserving as two distinct categories.

What I don't understand AT ALL though, is why hispanics get AA. When did the government deprive hispanics of essential liberties or effectively import hispanics for cheap labor? Either I'm having a huge senior moment and am blanking on a major portion of US History, or something is seriously wrong with today's AA.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Pissed Off White Nerd
I'm not for affirmative action. Not now, at least. I'm of the opinion that AA programs have been in effect for long enough.

My understanding was that AA was to give minority groups that were systematically disadvantaged by the government a level playing ground. So because slavery, blacks deserve AA, while native americans are given AA because of the colonial times.

I don't agree with how japanese-americans (or asians in general) don't get a break for internment camps or cheap labor during the railroad construction. I understand that this demographic seems successful enough to not "need" AA, but I view need and deserving as two distinct categories.

What I don't understand AT ALL though, is why hispanics get AA. When did the government deprive hispanics of essential liberties or effectively import hispanics for cheap labor? Either I'm having a huge senior moment and am blanking on a major portion of US History, or something is seriously wrong with today's AA.
It's the White Man's burden Bubba
 

imported_goku

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2004
7,613
3
0
I believe there shouldn't be affirmative action where a minority group in the scope of the county is a majority. For example, if you go to berkely campus, you'll see that asians are the majority yet affirmative action still applies and that is unfair.
 

I Saw OJ

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
4,923
2
76
While I dont agree with AA, it should either apply to all minorities, or it shouldnt apply to any. It shouldnt matter if that minority's great great great great grandfather was mistreated in some way
 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,345
3
71
Originally posted by: goku
I believe there shouldn't be affirmative action where a minority group in the scope of the county is a majority. For example, if you go to berkely campus, you'll see that asians are the majority yet affirmative action still applies and that is unfair.
Um, yes asians are the majority at Berkeley (noet teh speeling). But they have not practised AA for years now. It was smacked down the year before i went to grad school there (1997).

BTW, all this white mans burden, reverse discrimination stuff is absolute and utter crap. When i was in grad school berkeley high was considered one of the most integrated schools in the nation. Yet, graduation rates were ~95% for whites and asians and ~10% for blacks and hispanics. This is a socioeconomic issue. Like it or not this country was founded by the rich white male for the rich white male. One only needs to look at the current "leader" of this nation to see this. Also, pelosi is the FIRST female speaker of the house. Up to now they have ALL been rich white males. If youre a rich white male and cant make a go of this edumakation thing youre a looser and always will be.
 

LordNoob

Senior member
Nov 16, 2003
997
8
81
What most people fail to realize is that in many areas, white people are the minority. However, this does not mean they are necessarily disadvantaged, though in many rural areas they in fact are. Race-based programs will never be able to sort out those who need help and those who don't.

What about the children of rich black people? They get a double boost. First they get all of the educational opportunities available to rich whites thanks to their parents wealth, then they get a boost over every other non-minority because of Affirmative Action. Is that right? No- they don't necessarily need help because they probably went to an elite preschool, not to mention the private high school that probably costs more than some people's college tuition.

The simple fact is that race-based programs will never work equitably, or perhaps not even at all.

The solution is that if we wish to continue any sort of program resembling affirmative action, we must open our eyes and see that the true defining factor between minority and majority advantage is socio-economic status. Yes there will probably always be at least some latent racism on the part of whatever group is in power (black or white), though rich minorities don't need the unfair advantage they already receive. The fact is that rich parents beget rich children, for many reasons I don't need to go into. As such, the children of rich minority parents don't need Affirmative Action, because they have already got a clear path to success OF THEIR OWN ACCORD. I believe that means more than anything affirmative action could ever do.

Further, do you have trouble taking seriously minority students at major public institutions because they may have only gotten in 'because' of affirmative action? Perhaps not, however many people don't take them seriously.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,713
11
56
Just like unions in this country, AA policies need changing. When they began they were a good thing, but now they aren't doing what they were originally intended to do.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Originally posted by: Pandamonium
I'm not for affirmative action. Not now, at least. I'm of the opinion that AA programs have been in effect for long enough.

My understanding was that AA was to give minority groups that were systematically disadvantaged by the government a level playing ground. So because slavery, blacks deserve AA, while native americans are given AA because of the colonial times.

I don't agree with how japanese-americans (or asians in general) don't get a break for internment camps or cheap labor during the railroad construction. I understand that this demographic seems successful enough to not "need" AA, but I view need and deserving as two distinct categories.

What I don't understand AT ALL though, is why hispanics get AA. When did the government deprive hispanics of essential liberties or effectively import hispanics for cheap labor? Either I'm having a huge senior moment and am blanking on a major portion of US History, or something is seriously wrong with today's AA.
First off your completely erroneus in your post. For the the one millionth time AA applies to all minority groups and that has been the problem. AA was originally intended to help establish the black male so he could be a leader in developing a foudation for the black family. That is not what has happened. Unfortunately racism still found many ways around the intended use of the AA policies. White women have benefited the most from AA and women in general, that includes black women as well. AA was never written to say you have to hire this many blacks or any other race.

AA was written to say you have to provide a level playing field if two candidates are qualified and one is from a minority group, then that person should get the job or whatever. It is the unknown red tape. Goverment contracts went to whites who were from different countries, because under law they qualified as being a minority. Figure that one out. Skin color is not what makes a person be a minority. And let me put to "rest the hard working with no help" belief that is attached to asians. Its total bs. Asians have benefitted out the ass from AA programs. If a asian person comes to this country, they get free housing in good neighborhoods and often times cash and loan preferences when starting a business. Oh they are an true and good example of what many of us who are not asian shoudl strive to be like as a people group. They take advantage of their opportunites, but trust me they benefit greatly from favorable treatment. People on this board talk about AA and they don't a clue as to what they are talking about.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
2
76
I personally think AA should be given based on financial status not race. And during medical school applications they have some called URM- underrepresented minority- which only includes African Americans and Latinos
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Originally posted by: KK
can whitey get in on some of this AA action too?
whiteys do get in on some that action. I know a young white woman who got a 4 year free ride to college because she had a possible 1/32 of Indian blood. Yea right.

I know a another young white woman, who lives in a 900-1000 square foot apartment in beautiful apartment complex and pays $9 a month. Oh she had a kid after college thats why she gets the apartment. Did I mention she went to school for free and graduated from Rowan because her mother didn't graduate from high school. Oh whiteys get their slice of the pie.
 

OrganizedChaos

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2002
4,525
0
0
when asains start rioting in the streets they can have AA benefits too.

squeky wheel gets the grease.........
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
9
81
The idea of AA started off great. Everyone having a equal footing for a job and school. To bad over time that distorted, changed and manipulated.


I think it needs to be re-worked.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Just like unions in this country, AA policies need changing. When they began they were a good thing, but now they aren't doing what they were originally intended to do.
I think the intention behind them was a good thing - but the reality of thier implementation has never been a good thing.

I am all for qualified people being given opportunities that they would not have otherwise had because of their race.

I am not in favour of having less qualified people being given opportunities over qualified people because of their race. This happened all too often under the guise of AA.

The problem here is two-fold:

1) Based on socio-economic factors, a good portion of minorities (but not strictly minorities) don't have the opportunity to prepare themselves for many roles in society.

2) Even if they have prepared themselves properly - they may not be given the opportunity to fulfill that role.

AA attempted to solve both problems, when in reality it should have only solved (2).

The solution to (1) is far more complex.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,125
2
56
Originally posted by: Pandamonium
I'm not for affirmative action. Not now, at least. I'm of the opinion that AA programs have been in effect for long enough.

My understanding was that AA was to give minority groups that were systematically disadvantaged by the government a level playing ground. So because slavery, blacks deserve AA, while native americans are given AA because of the colonial times.

I don't agree with how japanese-americans (or asians in general) don't get a break for internment camps or cheap labor during the railroad construction. I understand that this demographic seems successful enough to not "need" AA, but I view need and deserving as two distinct categories.

What I don't understand AT ALL though, is why hispanics get AA. When did the government deprive hispanics of essential liberties or effectively import hispanics for cheap labor? Either I'm having a huge senior moment and am blanking on a major portion of US History, or something is seriously wrong with today's AA.
There is no one alive today who was a victim of slavory, internment camps, land-stealing, etc. There is also no one alive today who was responsible for those things. Reparations, Afirmative Action, and other "oh your ancestors suffered so we're going to make YOU out to be a victim" horseshit ideas are completely bogus.

Affirmative Action is legalized racial discrimination and there's no two ways about it.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,125
2
56
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: KK
can whitey get in on some of this AA action too?
whiteys do get in on some that action. I know a young white woman who got a 4 year free ride to college because she had a possible 1/32 of Indian blood. Yea right.

I know a another young white woman, who lives in a 900-1000 square foot apartment in beautiful apartment complex and pays $9 a month. Oh she had a kid after college thats why she gets the apartment. Did I mention she went to school for free and graduated from Rowan because her mother didn't graduate from high school. Oh whiteys get their slice of the pie.
:laugh:

That wasn't because she was white, that's because of her native american heritage.

Show me a white person who's been assisted by Affirmative Action based on their ango-saxon/european heritage?
 

SacrosanctFiend

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
4,269
0
0
My ancestors were slaves to the railroad companies and the coal mines. I deserve to be assisted by AA.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,903
19
81
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: Pandamonium
I'm not for affirmative action. Not now, at least. I'm of the opinion that AA programs have been in effect for long enough.

My understanding was that AA was to give minority groups that were systematically disadvantaged by the government a level playing ground. So because slavery, blacks deserve AA, while native americans are given AA because of the colonial times.

I don't agree with how japanese-americans (or asians in general) don't get a break for internment camps or cheap labor during the railroad construction. I understand that this demographic seems successful enough to not "need" AA, but I view need and deserving as two distinct categories.

What I don't understand AT ALL though, is why hispanics get AA. When did the government deprive hispanics of essential liberties or effectively import hispanics for cheap labor? Either I'm having a huge senior moment and am blanking on a major portion of US History, or something is seriously wrong with today's AA.
There is no one alive today who was a victim of slavory, internment camps, land-stealing, etc. There is also no one alive today who was responsible for those things. Reparations, Afirmative Action, and other "oh your ancestors suffered so we're going to make YOU out to be a victim" horseshit ideas are completely bogus.

Affirmative Action is legalized racial discrimination and there's no two ways about it.
Not directly victims of slavery, but there are certainly victims of institutional racism alive today. And uh... if you're going to use the "no one alive today" argument, then you ought to leave out the internment camps, because that was only 65 years ago.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,125
2
56
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: Pandamonium
I'm not for affirmative action. Not now, at least. I'm of the opinion that AA programs have been in effect for long enough.

My understanding was that AA was to give minority groups that were systematically disadvantaged by the government a level playing ground. So because slavery, blacks deserve AA, while native americans are given AA because of the colonial times.

I don't agree with how japanese-americans (or asians in general) don't get a break for internment camps or cheap labor during the railroad construction. I understand that this demographic seems successful enough to not "need" AA, but I view need and deserving as two distinct categories.

What I don't understand AT ALL though, is why hispanics get AA. When did the government deprive hispanics of essential liberties or effectively import hispanics for cheap labor? Either I'm having a huge senior moment and am blanking on a major portion of US History, or something is seriously wrong with today's AA.
There is no one alive today who was a victim of slavory, internment camps, land-stealing, etc. There is also no one alive today who was responsible for those things. Reparations, Afirmative Action, and other "oh your ancestors suffered so we're going to make YOU out to be a victim" horseshit ideas are completely bogus.

Affirmative Action is legalized racial discrimination and there's no two ways about it.
Not directly victims of slavery, but there are certainly victims of institutional racism alive today. And uh... if you're going to use the "no one alive today" argument, then you ought to leave out the internment camps, because that was only 65 years ago.
>_>

<_<

shhhhhh


:p
 

punjabiplaya

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2006
3,495
1
71
AA is the biggest piece of BS ever created.
My parents and I came to this country with nothing. Through hard work and a lot of time, we can finally enjoy some of the luxuries and higher quality of life we have here. I don't understand how spoon feeding people who refuse to work will help them? Lowering the standard for a certain race is not going to fix any problem.
How come asians are not regarded as disadvantaged minorities? Because rather than bitching about the past, we go to school, go to work, and do what we can.
Katrina is the biggest example in recent history. I live in Houston, and you can notice the difference. The crime rate is through the roof. No one wants to work. Their mentality is just "Oh no, the government screwed us." Well, our good family friends had their entire house destroyed too. They lost everything, their home for 25+ years is just a rotten moldy shell. What did they do? They went back to work, got an apartment and are working their asses off to get life back to normal. Instead of resorting to crime, they are working to bring their lives back to normal.
I don't understand AA at all. If anyone could come through with a valid explanation, please, by all means, post your knowledge. I see absolutely no use, and validity in this policy. Just because you are lazy, don't blame your inability to do anything on something that is 200+ years old.
Ebonics is not a language. Just because you refuse to learn English, don't expect everyone else to learn Spanish. Why should I be denied something just because you'd rather be stealing someone's TV, impregnating your 16yr old girlfriend, and chroming your low-rider?
I am not being racist. I am being culturist. There is no way you can deny that a culture that is focused on nothing but all the wrong things is being allowed into our great universities while kids who have worked their asses off their entire life are not getting into great universities.
If you want to learn, you will learn. Find a library. Find a computer. Find a teacher. Put down the stolen goods. Economic status is in no way an excuse for a lack of knowledge. I know, my family and I have been poor as dirt.
I can understand AA for Native Americans. Other than that, it's BS.
/rant off
 

Kilim

Member
Sep 8, 2004
60
0
0
As a mexican-american, seeing a bunch of asians at a university makes me happy, showing as it does that hard work is still rewarded.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,903
19
81
Originally posted by: punjabiplaya
AA is the biggest piece of BS ever created.
My parents and I came to this country with nothing. Through hard work and a lot of time, we can finally enjoy some of the luxuries and higher quality of life we have here. I don't understand how spoon feeding people who refuse to work will help them? Lowering the standard for a certain race is not going to fix any problem.
How come asians are not regarded as disadvantaged minorities? Because rather than bitching about the past, we go to school, go to work, and do what we can.
Katrina is the biggest example in recent history. I live in Houston, and you can notice the difference. The crime rate is through the roof. No one wants to work. Their mentality is just "Oh no, the government screwed us." Well, our good family friends had their entire house destroyed too. They lost everything, their home for 25+ years is just a rotten moldy shell. What did they do? They went back to work, got an apartment and are working their asses off to get life back to normal. Instead of resorting to crime, they are working to bring their lives back to normal.
I don't understand AA at all. If anyone could come through with a valid explanation, please, by all means, post your knowledge. I see absolutely no use, and validity in this policy. Just because you are lazy, don't blame your inability to do anything on something that is 200+ years old.
Ebonics is not a language. Just because you refuse to learn English, don't expect everyone else to learn Spanish. Why should I be denied something just because you'd rather be stealing someone's TV, impregnating your 16yr old girlfriend, and chroming your low-rider?
I am not being racist. I am being culturist. There is no way you can deny that a culture that is focused on nothing but all the wrong things is being allowed into our great universities while kids who have worked their asses off their entire life are not getting into great universities.
If you want to learn, you will learn. Find a library. Find a computer. Find a teacher. Put down the stolen goods. Economic status is in no way an excuse for a lack of knowledge. I know, my family and I have been poor as dirt.
I can understand AA for Native Americans. Other than that, it's BS.
/rant off
Wow... that's an interesting rant full of racial stereotypes... maybe AA exists because people like you are in a position to hire for jobs, and when a black guy comes in to interview you can't see past all of those stereotypes? :Q

BTW, I think affirmative action is a failed program, and it should be ended. More effort should be devoted to better education in urban areas to help poor people - black, white, hispanic, asian or what have you - lift THEMSELVES out of their situation.
 

mercanucaribe

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
9,763
1
0
The problem all around is that AA seems to help people who aren't disadvantaged, while those who are disadvantaged stay that way.
 

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