Advice on getting a high-tech internship

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
This is my follow-on to last year's discussion on landing on a high-tech job which is here. But this has a specific focus on getting an internship.

I am involved in interviewing and hiring interns for Intel. Given that I've spent the better part of today reading through literally over 100 resumes, taking notes on them, and deciding who I want to interview, I have a few bits of advice for people who are thinking about a high-tech internship - advice from the guy on the other side, one could say. :)

But first, please do not send me a resume - applications for Intel need to be submitted through Intel's job webside. I can't help anyone get a job at Intel - beyond general advice - or at any other high-tech company. I'd encourage people to apply, but not to contact me as a way to "get into the system". My purpose in posting is to help people by giving advice that hopefully people will find useful. So please do not email or PM with your resume - submit it to Intel at the website at the website above.

The following is just my advice - I'm sure other people who read lots of intern applicant resumes have their own bits of advice, but these are mine. I wouldn't recommend ripping up your current resume and rewriting it like I describe below, but I would recommend re-examining your resume in light of some of my comments below.

My first bit of advice is to apply. This sounds dumb, but I remember that I was a completely clueless back when I was in college, and I never did. I would wait until my friends started talking about the internships that they had lined up and then think "hey, I should do that too!" and by then it seemed like it was too late, and I'd sigh and still didn't apply. Now is a good time to submit resumes, but there really isn't a bad time to apply. Do it now (Oct. 2006), do it later (Feb. 2007), but if you want an internship, make sure you apply.

Second bit of advice, put what you are looking for in your objective statement. In the past, I said that objectives were a bit of a waste of resume space, but I was wrong. It's a waste of time when people write "fluff" and put it in their objective statement ("I want an exciting job in high-tech") , but in reality it's a great place to describe what you are looking for. Specifically I love it when I see dates on internship applications. "I am looking for an internship in digital circuit design. Availability. Jan 2007 - Aug. 2007.". So my advice is to either skip the objective statement if you don't know what to write or you are open to anything - better not to waste space with a non-specific one - but , even better, use it to describe what you want and when you want it.

Next, put your expected graduation date in your resume, what degree(s) you are pursuing, and put your GPA in. The graduation date is useful because it gives resume readers a good idea where you are in the education process. If someone doesn't include a GPA then I figure that it must be really low.

Next, list classes and projects. I can't stress this enough. For an internship, this is usually the most interesting part of a resume, but I have seen a bunch of resumes today where people just completely skip this section and instead tell me how about their last 4 jobs that aren't really relevant to high-tech at all. If I'm looking for someone to fill an internship in digital circuit design, I want to know if they've taken a digital circuit design class - not that they worked at a job stocking shelves at a video rental store three years ago. Projects are especially interesting because they are close to real-world work. I would recommend describing a project with a sentence or two, not just listing the title of it.

Next for skills, put as many as you can think of in the skill section that are relevant. If you speak another language, put it in. If you know Linux well, put it in. You are good at Windows XP networking, put it in. Put every buzzword you can think of that applies to yourself in the skills section. You've used SPICE and have written some HDL - mention it. This section - and the classes and projects section - are the two best ways to differentiate your resume and get it through an automatic search screen, in my opinion. Make sure that you use it. Unix is a useful skill in circuit design at Intel, but I see lots of people skip mentioning it at all on their resume but it comes up in the interview which leaves me wondering why it's not on their resume. Or they'll list a project and in the interview they'll be describing it and describe all sorts of skills and knowledge that they didn't list on their resume but probably should have.

For my next bit of advice, it is to limit space discussing previous jobs to just one or two unless they are applicable to the job you are applying for. Otherwise they waste space (in my opinion). If you haven't ever had a job, then mention charity work or volunteer activities.

And since I frequently have mentioned space above, the reason to limit space is to keep a resume down to one to two pages unless you have a lot of relevant stuff that you want to make the resume reader aware of. So if you have patents and published papers and acadamic awards, then it's fine to run over multiple pages, but if you are using it to describe lots of previous jobs in unrelated fields and that go back over plenty of years, then for an internship resume I'd keep the resume focused on education, classes & projects, skills, awards & honors and a bit on previous jobs.

It's good to mention one or two jobs - even if in unrelated fields. It's a good thing to mention any previous jobs that are directly relevant - but if they aren't directly relevant, then it's still good to list one or two. It shows that you have had a job and can hold a job.

It's also great to mention any awards, papers, patents, or articles you've written. Useful software you've written, open source projects you've helped. Even ones that you aren't sure would really matter like Eagle Scout, academic scholarships, honors, awards, etc. Honors are short to describe, don't take up much space, and distinguish yourself from others. I would encourage you to mention things that you don't think are important (like "awarded an Elite member at Anandtech.com for valuable posts to the forum." but perhaps not, "awarded a Lifer membership at AT for excessive neffing")

Another important bit of advice is not to lie on a resume. I would also highly discourage excessive exaggeration. If someone mentions something on their resume, there is a high probability that I will ask something about it. If someone lists that they know Unix, I will almost certainly ask them a Unix question ("if you want to search for a word in a text file in Unix, what command would you most likely use", "what does the term piping mean with regards to Unix", etc.). If someone lists something as a skill, then they should know it. If they describe that they worked on the design of a switched-mode power supply as a project and I ask how one works, I'd hope that they could describe it to me. If not, it looks bad. It's definitely worse than not mentioning it at all.

Lastly, it's very helpful to include contact details that are up to date and will remain up to date for a while. Sometimes resumes sit for months before someone looks at them. Make sure you put an address/telephone/email that you will at for a while. If you know you are moving out of your apartment in two months, it's best to give an address you will be at longer. If you won't be checking university email over the summer, make sure you include an email you will be checking.

I hope that this post is of some use to people.

Patrick Mahoney
Senior Design Engineer
Enterprise Processor Division
Intel Corp.
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
applications for Intel need to be submitted through Intel's job website.

AMD's application process is a lot less painful than Intel's, and you won't have every group that's interested in you send you a slightly different version of the same Word document and ask you to fill it out (even though you already provided all the info through the web site... as a Word document) ;).
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
When is a good time to start applying for internships? Third year?
I'm in my second year of a Mechanical Engineering Technology program, and frankly, I feel like I haven't learned much of anything useful. I've only had the basics - material and manufacturing processes, calculus I and II, and statics. Those are the highlights. Is that enough to be useful in an internship?
 

A5

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2000
4,902
5
81
Originally posted by: Jeff7
When is a good time to start applying for internships? Third year?
I'm in my second year of a Mechanical Engineering Technology program, and frankly, I feel like I haven't learned much of anything useful. I've only had the basics - material and manufacturing processes, calculus I and II, and statics. Those are the highlights. Is that enough to be useful in an internship?

The only real key is to be sure that they're hiring you for a job that's relevant to your field. It's up to them to decide if you know enough.

I can't stress this enough though: MAKE SURE YOU'RE BEING HIRED TO DO SOMETHING RELATED TO YOUR FIELD.

I failed to do this, and now I'm programming for/maintaining some Unix boxes (3rd semester out of 5 total). This would be all well and good if I were CS or Software Engineering, but I'm Computer Eng, trying to specialize in hardware design. Don't be afraid to decline an offer if you don't think you'll be at least somewhat interested in the job - you can always just wait a semester or year and try again.
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
Originally posted by: Jeff7
When is a good time to start applying for internships? Third year?
I'm in my second year of a Mechanical Engineering Technology program, and frankly, I feel like I haven't learned much of anything useful. I've only had the basics - material and manufacturing processes, calculus I and II, and statics. Those are the highlights. Is that enough to be useful in an internship?

Apply early. Worst case, you get ignored. I got ignored until junior year... I do know of a few people who did get good jobs the summer after sophomore year though. Don't worry about not knowing enough. Companies know what to expect from interns, and they know how much they can teach you. When I started co-oping at AMD the first time (after junior year), I was worried I wouldn't be able to contribute usefully, but as it turned out, I got to do a lot of useful, real work and learned a lot.

I failed to do this, and now I'm programming for/maintaining some Unix boxes (3rd semester out of 5 total). This would be all well and good if I were CS or Software Engineering, but I'm Computer Eng, trying to specialize in hardware design. Don't be afraid to decline an offer if you don't think you'll be at least somewhat interested in the job - you can always just wait a semester or year and try again.

I don't know if I agree with that. I would think having a summer job is better than not having a job. You will probably have to work a bit to make sure you don't get stuck on a career path you don't like though. Specifically point out that you're looking for a hardware design position in your objective.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
How many internships are paid? I'm not sure if I can afford to take an internship that doesn't pay anything. I'm wary of taking out too much in student loans, because 1) I just don't like being in debt, and 2) I'm kind of semi-sort of sure that I might probably stick with this Mechanical Engineering Technology. It's my second major switch. Well, 3rd technically. I went from Cisco Networking (2 years) to plain old ME (1 year), and now I'm in MET. So I don't want to incur a huge amount of debt, only to find myself back working retail again with loans I have no hope of repaying.
 

Lord Banshee

Golden Member
Sep 8, 2004
1,495
0
0
PM, thanks for all the helpful hints, BTW you happen put mine in the good pile :)... just kidding. Also the link to last years thread doesn't work. Here is the correct
Link

Jeff, I've never heard of a Engineering Intern/Co-Op not being paid.. it is almost a most.
 

borealiss

Senior member
Jun 23, 2000
913
0
0
Originally posted by: Jeff7
How many internships are paid? I'm not sure if I can afford to take an internship that doesn't pay anything. I'm wary of taking out too much in student loans, because 1) I just don't like being in debt, and 2) I'm kind of semi-sort of sure that I might probably stick with this Mechanical Engineering Technology. It's my second major switch. Well, 3rd technically. I went from Cisco Networking (2 years) to plain old ME (1 year), and now I'm in MET. So I don't want to incur a huge amount of debt, only to find myself back working retail again with loans I have no hope of repaying.


any decent company offering internships should pay you. getting an internship or coop will most likely help you pay off school loans. the more you do, the more you can save. i paid off my entire last year of school through coops.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
So, my question is, what do I do if my resume stinks? I mean I have a 2.5GPA, I haven't done any research, I don't have any proffesors who love me to write reccomendations, and I need some sort of internship/research opportunity this summer. What are the opportunities for someone who doesn't have a great resume? I mean obviously I could work some minimum wage job, but the money you make there is trivial compared to the amount that you would make by beefing up your resume with a fancy looking internship.

So, basically, we know that the cream of the crop get internships at Intel, AMD, etc..., where do the rest of us losers go?
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
I would say that, depending on what exactly you're shooting for, it can be useful to leave seemingly unrelated work experiences on your resume. When I was looking for sponsorship for my masters research, I had the following work experience:
1. Air Force Research Lab for 2 years
2. Vacuum Salesman for 6 weeks
3. CAD for 6 weeks
4. Construction for 6 years

The project I applied for was developing environmntally-friendly fuels for the Air Force. They didn't care that I had already worked with them or about anything else on my resume except that I had done construction, because it happened that a lot of this project would be building new equipment. I started laughing when the guy told me that because I almost took it off my resume before I applied because I thought it was totally irrelevant. Just one anecdote that you might consider.
 

Aluvus

Platinum Member
Apr 27, 2006
2,913
1
0
Originally posted by: BrownTown
So, my question is, what do I do if my resume stinks? I mean I have a 2.5GPA, I haven't done any research, I don't have any proffesors who love me to write reccomendations, and I need some sort of internship/research opportunity this summer. What are the opportunities for someone who doesn't have a great resume? I mean obviously I could work some minimum wage job, but the money you make there is trivial compared to the amount that you would make by beefing up your resume with a fancy looking internship.

So, basically, we know that the cream of the crop get internships at Intel, AMD, etc..., where do the rest of us losers go?

The usual advice is to play up any project experience you have. And if you don't have any... get some.

* Not a career counselor.
 

coolingoff

Member
Aug 6, 2006
40
0
0
hey pm I had a question for you.
I'm a sophmore majoring in ECE/CS at a top 10 school, GPA of around 3.0.

I'm way ahead of most of the people in my year, in that I've taken a digital logic course, and I'm done with most of my analog classes.
But I've just done one substantial digital logic project, apart from some comp sci projects. I'll be taking some intense computer architecture courses
in the next two semesters, so do you think I should apply this summer, or wait for the next summer? or could I apply this summer, and
kind of update my resume, or better resubmit it when I have considerate amount of digital design under my belt?

thanks
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
When is a good time to start applying for internships? Third year?
I figure there's no harm in applying whenever. I have been reading resumes and I see quite a few first-years. The only problem that I have with first year's - well, several problems but they all boil down to the same thing - is that they probably haven't taken any relevant classes which makes it hard to interview them, makes it hard to ramp them up when they start and generally means that I don't tend to pay a lot of attention to first-year resumes unless they are something impressive. But after the second year I would think there would be enough classes and a project or two and it would be a good time to apply.

How many internships are paid?
In my experience, all of them. It's not a huge amount of money, but it's not too bad.

So, my question is, what do I do if my resume stinks? I mean I have a 2.5GPA, I haven't done any research, I don't have any proffesors who love me to write reccomendations, and I need some sort of internship/research opportunity this summer. So, basically, we know that the cream of the crop get internships at Intel, AMD, etc..., where do the rest of us losers go?
This is a good question. I sent you a PM by the way and never heard back. But anyway, it's a challenge. I can be honest and say that my grades for undergrad were not so impressive. (less than a 3.0 - although I went to university in England so the whole translation thing is a bit confusing.. but I think it's safe to say that I was under a 3.0). So I've been there.

My best advice is to try anyway. With a minimum amount of effort, one could apply to probably 10 high-tech jobs per 20 minutes... 30 jobs per hour. The application process - once you have a resume - is pretty fast and painless (well, except as CTho9305 pointed out, at Intel). There's no harm in applying. If you want an internship, polish your resume and try anyway. If you give up, then there's definitely no hope of landing one.

Beyond applying and hoping, working on projects for the "fun of it" can be impressive on a resume. If someone is a programmer, get involved in Open Source software. If someone likes to tinker, make something interesting. I interviewed an intern (who we hired) who made a automatic light switch based on motion detectors that used a counter to figure how many people were in the room (so it didn't shut off if someone was still in the room even if there was no motion). He did it for the heck of it and put it on his resume. I thought it was cool. We chatted about the problems with it and how to maybe make it better. In fact, when I see him now, I still ask him about it. I interviewed another who made, for the heck of it, a digital clock out of nixie tubes - and we spent a while talking about nixie tubes and how to make a clock from basic components. I interviewed yet another who had been making d-class amplifiers for the fun of it and was messing around with a small one for his iPod. For each one of these examples, first I was intrigued, then it gave us something to talk about, something to quiz them on ("how did you drive the nixie input", "what IC did you use for the d-class amp? why'd you choose that one?") It shows initiative, it shows that they are interested in electronics, it shows that they can design something.

If none of the above are intriguing enough to try, then I would recommend a master's degree. If you get a master's and do well, leave your GPA for undergrad off the resume completely.

so do you think I should apply this summer, or wait for the next summer? or could I apply this summer, and kind of update my resume, or better resubmit it when I have considerate amount of digital design under my belt?
I would apply now, and then update your resume and apply later. Electrons are cheap. :)
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I agree with what pm is saying. Project classes are the key. In fact, one or two VLSI project courses should be enough for you to get started in this career, if you really take the projects seriously and not just cram to pass the class. It is very transparent in interviews when applicants don't have a good feel for the material and are just regurgitating formulas.
I will add this one little bit of advice. Go to career fairs. Talk to people, especially middle aged people who are in decision making positions who can make your career. Take business cards. If you go through the regular channels, and don't get an offer by mid spring, start emailing your resume directly to the people whose cards you picked up months ago, and ask them to help you out. Especially if they are alumni of your university, they often will help you out.
I got a sweet internship this way once. I waited till the last second, mid April. All my friends had internships lined up, and I was sitting there looking at another sh!tty summer job. But the previous fall, I went to career fair to pick up the freebies and t-shirts, and I also picked up a bunch of business cards that I held on to. So I started emailing my resume to them, saying "remember me?". Well, one of them was a VP at a computer company (now part of HP), and he forwarded my resume to one of the hiring managers, and I got an interview and an offer in time for summer. There is a huge difference between you submitting your resume into a database and hoping someone takes a look at it, and a hiring manager getting your resume from your organization's VP. Because when the VP wants you to take a look at a resume, that says a lot. But any sort of internal refferal is a leg up on the competition in many cases.
I only talked to the guy for maybe 30 seconds during the career fair, and I guarantee you he didn't remember me, and I didn't remember what he looked like either, but he helped me out big time.
Additionally, if one company flies you out for an onsite interview, and you have option of staying an extra day to check out the area, take it, and call up other local companies you may have had on campus interview with who haven't invited you to onsite visit. They may not think it's worth the expense to fly you over to interview for an internship, but if they don't have to pay to do it, and you are in the area anyways, they may give you a shot on that spare day. And if not, you can still use that extra day to check out the area and see what it is like before you decide to spend a summer there.
 

coolingoff

Member
Aug 6, 2006
40
0
0
Thanks for the additional tips, senseamp.

My only concern right now is that if I apply this year as a sophmore, with not too many project classes under my belt, if they mark me off, then would they even consider an updated better application/resume from me the next year?

By next year, I should have at least 3 more project oriented courses under my belt, and a better ECE GPA at least. So I'm still thinking if I should submit applications this year to companies where I would really like to intern, if not this summer then next summer.

plus me being an international student doesn't help the cause .....
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: pm
How many internships are paid?
In my experience, all of them. It's not a huge amount of money, but it's not too bad.

If I may ask, what exactly does "not a huge amount of money" qualify as, in dollars? :)
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: pm
How many internships are paid?
In my experience, all of them. It's not a huge amount of money, but it's not too bad.

If I may ask, what exactly does "not a huge amount of money" qualify as, in dollars? :)

It depends on your qualifications and the company (mainly what year you are in school and previous experience) and where you're working (you'll be paid a LOT more, and probably still save less, living in Silicon Valley, compared to Austin). In Austin, I'd guess $15-$30/hr, and in Silicon Valley, up to $40/hr (including any "extras" like housing stipends). I'm pretty sure I can't give you the exact numbers for AMD, so those ranges come from asking my friends at a bunch of companies what they made as interns/coops or are currently making if they're not full time yet. The people at the higher ranges are masters/PhD students with multiple tours at their companies. As an undergrad, expect $15-25 depending on your qualifications and the company.
 

A5

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2000
4,902
5
81
I'm free to talk about my salary, since I'm a public employee. So here's some advice:

Most undergrad internships/coop rates (from my experience and my friends' experiences) range from $12-$24ish. I'm currently in my 3rd tour with my company (GT Research Institute) and making $17.08/hr. I made $14.78/hr my first semester, and I'll make ~$20/hr during my 5th semester, depending on how much they raise it when the re-index the salaries every year. Considering the cost of living where I'm working (Huntsville, AL), and the fact I can live at home while working, I'm doing pretty well.

The places that pay at the lower end oftentimes provide housing (especially in Cali), and the places that pay a lot more than what I'm getting are few and far between.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,660
762
126
Interesting thread. I checked the Intel website out of curiosity and noticed that math PhDs were listed as one of the potential employment candidates. What sort of jobs do you offer for mathematicians? I'm a math major in my third (final) year and will be going to graduate school in applied math next year. I have a strong record (4.0 GPA and several graduate classes; was also one of the finalists in the Intel Science Talent Search competition a few years ago) and fairly broad applied interests, and although I'm not looking for an internship this summer, I would be quite interested to know about any career options I may have later on.
 

Shadowmage

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2004
1,162
0
76
Hey, great thread.

I have a question about Intel's internships. I've been offered some positions at AMD, but all I will be doing is verification (test cases, etc). Is Intel similar to this or will I be able to write some actual hardware? :)
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
I'd like to be able to answer the questions about mathematicians but I'll honest and will admit that I don't know. I pretty much only look at EE resumes. I'm sure that there are careers at Intel for Math majors, but I don't know what they are.

As far as salaries... I would say the numbers that A5 posted are the range that I have heard of too.

As far as what internships at Intel are like compared to other companies... to be completely honest, it depends on the luck of the draw in my experience with the team you join. Some teams basically give test and validation work to interns, others actually give design assignments, or others. I know this to be true at Intel, and I would presume it to be true of other companies as well. If you get on a good team with a good intern coordinator, then you would be likely to get a much more interesting assignment than if you join a team that isn't as well organized. I think locally in Fort Collins we have a very good internship program. We generally strive to get co-ops (which are >3 month internships according to the Intel definition of the term) and we generally strive to put together a training and work program that is interesting and produces a real, useful end result that contributes to the team. That said, verification work is a very useful pre-requisite (IMO) to writing RTL. I believe that you learn faster and better from finding and debugging others mistakes than you do writing bad code and making mistakes yourself. Also, there are plenty of engineers whose full time job is writing verification tests and they are happy with their career choice - it's not just grunt work handed off to interns... it's useful work that is good training, and it can be rewarding and enjoyable.
 

mattsaccount

Member
Nov 30, 2003
87
0
0
I had an internship at Intel last summer and would recommend it to anyone :) Mine was in SSG (Software and Solutions Group), rather than on the hardware side of things. Intel is a huge company and they have positions for people with any number of skills.
 

bobsmith1492

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2004
3,875
3
81
Originally posted by: A5
I'm free to talk about my salary, since I'm a public employee. So here's some advice:

Most undergrad internships/coop rates (from my experience and my friends' experiences) range from $12-$24ish. I'm currently in my 3rd tour with my company (GT Research Institute) and making $17.08/hr. I made $14.78/hr my first semester, and I'll make ~$20/hr during my 5th semester, depending on how much they raise it when the re-index the salaries every year. Considering the cost of living where I'm working (Huntsville, AL), and the fact I can live at home while working, I'm doing pretty well.

The places that pay at the lower end oftentimes provide housing (especially in Cali), and the places that pay a lot more than what I'm getting are few and far between.

Around here (West Michigan), it's pretty typical to get 10-11/hr as an engineering student in the coop program at GVSU. The range is about 9-17/hr as far as I have heard (I get 17/hr and haven't heard of anything higher). Nothing is as expensive here as it is in CA, though, I'm sure, so it'll go a lot further. :p
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
I already have a paid internship, and I've applied for a paid research program for the summer. (If I get accepted I'm going to do both) Just out of curiousity, what would you recommend more for those that have an opportunity to choose one or the other?