advice needed for new budget build from old XP system

[tommyncal]

I have an old XP system ('08 or '09 ) that I need to upgrade. I've decided to dump XP and go with either W7 or W8. I was going to do this almost a year ago and just put it off. But now my monitor also died. I'd like to save and re-use a few items from old computer.
I came up with some components and would like some advice on their compatibility and 'value' per other similar components. Also, anyone's thoughts on a pre-built. My wife and I use this computer for web surfing with multiple tabs, watching you-tube videos, Microsoft Publisher quite often, 'hobby' use of photo editing (Lightroom 3) and no gaming.
Components I'd like to keep and re-use:
Case: Antec Sonata
PSU: Antec Smart Power 450 watt
Optical: Samsung

There's a couple of choices on some components. Not sure if the extra cost is warranted in my usage.

CPU: Intel G3220- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116950
or Intel i3 4130- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116946

MB: ASUS H81M-A-http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132044
or MSI B85-G41- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130699

RAM: GSkill Ripjaws/1333/(2x4Gb)-http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231402
or GSkill/1600/ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231428

SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 128Gb-http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147192

*Not sure which integrated graphics is better, or how much better, between the 2 boards.
*The G3220 requires 1333 RAM. Not sure which one to use. The 10600 or 10666? Or will either work?

Monitor: looking at a 24", possibly an ASUS VS248H-P /$180.00
OS: I think I prefer W7 but dont quite understand the OEM vs Retail. I know you can only use the OEM on 1 computer. But is it stuck with that 1 SSD? Can you re-format?

Thanks for any help

 

[Torn Mind]

Don't throw away the monitor. Chances are someone on Ebay is willing to take a bite and try to repair it.

Integrated graphics are now on the CPU and the Intel-compatible motherboards no longer has a northbridge. The i3 will have better integrated graphics than the Pentium.

OEM is tied to one mobo. For W7, the OEM license was not meant for personal use; it was meant for systems that were to be sold to another unrelated party, although I don't think Microsoft will enforce the rules on you because they can't tell. Windows 8 doesn't have this restriction, but Windows 8.1 does. If you feel that you want to not break the law even if you can't get caught, it's Windows 8 or procuring a retail version of Windows.

 

[tommyncal]

Thanks for the reply. I'm assuming either MB will be fine with the i3. I dont mind breaking that rule, kind of similar to putting cardboard in the trash bin instead of the recycle bin. But what would happen if the motherboard failed? But buying the retail copy might be easiest to deal with. hopefully microsoft will support W7 for awhile.

 

[Torn Mind]

Windows 7 will be supported until 2020. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle

If the motherboard dies, you technically have to get one that is the exact same model or if not available, very similar to the one you had. You can then try to boot up the OS and see if you have to reactivate. If neither typing in the code or automated phone activation works, you'd have to call Microsoft and speaks to a person and tell them that your motherboard died and need to reactivate Windows. Of course, you could try to buy a totally different board and see if Windows boots up with no issue, as the activation mechanism is not "all-knowing".

 

[tommyncal]

2020 should work. Let me ask again, is the1333/10600 RAM the same as the 1333/10666 ?

 

[mfenn]

Windows 8 doesn't have this restriction, but Windows 8.1 does.

It would be a shame if they reverted that policy. Link?

 

[mfenn]

2020 should work. Let me ask again, is the1333/10600 RAM the same as the 1333/10666 ?

The two are identical, it's just a matter of rounding on the somewhat useless PCXXXX number. However, you don't have to use DDR3 1333 on a Pentium. DDR3 1600 will work, you just have to set the values manually or use an XMP profile.

As for your parts:

- The G3220 is a much better deal than the i3. It's $50 less expensive and all you lose is 17% clockspeed and HyperThreading
- The H81-A is a better choice for a basic machine assuming it has all the ports you need. In fact, I don't really see a reason to pay a premium for the ASUS name when the ASRock equivalent H81M-HDS is $52
- That Ripjaws you linked is way too expensive at $83. I'd grab this Team kit for $64
- There's not really any value in going with a Samsung Pro drive over an EVO in this situation. I'd grab a Samsung 840 EVO 120GB for $100. Maybe even use the savings from the above to grab the 250GB version.

 

[tommyncal]

Thanks for the helpful reply, and for the cost savings. I just wasn't sure if the G3220, with its integrated graphics, would serve my purpose. Might put the savings towards an IPS monitor. Not sure I'll ever need a 250Gb SSD. But will check out the price of one.
Don't know about setting valves manually or the XMP profile. Will have to do some research.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

- The G3220 is a much better deal than the i3. It's $50 less expensive and all you lose is 17% clockspeed and HyperThreading

Lets not forget AVX/AVX2, but for this kind of usage it should be a non-issue.

 

[spaceman]

if u keep long term id get a cpu w.more punch

 

[AViking]

- The H81-A is a better choice for a basic machine assuming it has all the ports you need. In fact, I don't really see a reason to pay a premium for the ASUS name when the ASRock equivalent H81M-HDS is $52

I'm kinda curious about this. H81 if you only need 2 SATA 3 ports and 2 SATA 6 ports, H87 if you need more SATA ports, Z87 if you need SLI and the full shebang? Is there no difference in overall performance, just features? More USB ports, more memory slots and so on?

I'm thinking of consolidating my Hard Drives and just getting 2x8GB and calling it a day - and maybe H81 is all I'll need.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

H81 if you only need 2 SATA 3 ports and 2 SATA 6 ports, H87 if you need more SATA ports, Z87 if you need SLI and the full shebang? Is there no difference in overall performance, just features?

Yes, that's pretty much it. Unless you run a K series, you don't need anything more then H81/H87.

 

[tommyncal]

So, if I was going to use a DDR3 1600 pair of RAM instead of the DDR3 1333, I would boot up to BIOS and manually input the voltage and 4 timing numbers for that particular memory dual channel kit I'm using? For instance 1.5V & 7-7-7-21 ?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

So, if I was going to use a DDR3 1600 pair of RAM instead of the DDR3 1333, I would boot up to BIOS and manually input the voltage and 4 timing numbers for that particular memory dual channel kit I'm using? For instance 1.5V & 7-7-7-21 ?

The BIOS/UEFI should set up everything automatically according to the memory SPD/XMP. Faster rated kits have voltage/timings for various lower speeds. Usually standard 1066/1333/1600 is covered. But its always a good idea to check everything is what it should be. Some boards have a nasty default of overvolting the memory.

I wouldn't recommend trying to run 7-7-7-21 on anything faster then 1333. Besides timings don't really have that much impact on performance any more. This little article over at Xbitlabs covers Sandy/Ivy Bridge and Haswell pretty nicely:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/ivy-bridge-ddr3.html

Generally, you should always go for higher clock speeds before timings.

 

[tommyncal]

These would be my 2 choices for memory with the G3220 CPU
1) http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313344
2) http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428

Both have timings of 9-9-9-24 and 1.5V. You think the MB will auto adjust for either of these? If not, I would go into BIOS to check and change if needed?

 

[mfenn]

These would be my 2 choices for memory with the G3220 CPU
1) http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313344
2) http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428

Both have timings of 9-9-9-24 and 1.5V. You think the MB will auto adjust for either of these? If not, I would go into BIOS to check and change if needed?

Yes, the DDR3 1600 speeds should be programmed into the SPD (standard detection) or XMP (optional detection that you have to enable). If both of those fails, you can easily just put in the timings yourself.

 

[mfenn]

I'm kinda curious about this. H81 if you only need 2 SATA 3 ports and 2 SATA 6 ports, H87 if you need more SATA ports, Z87 if you need SLI and the full shebang? Is there no difference in overall performance, just features? More USB ports, more memory slots and so on?

I'm thinking of consolidating my Hard Drives and just getting 2x8GB and calling it a day - and maybe H81 is all I'll need.

Correct, there is no difference in performance between chipsets, only features. Intel and AMD have worked very hard to get all performance-sensitive parts of the system out of the chipset and into the CPU (first the memory controller, then graphics, now PCIe).

 

[tommyncal]

mfenn, thanks for your help. I think I have decided on all my components now. Just pondering the retail or OEM Windows 7 decision.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

mfenn, thanks for your help. I think I have decided on all my components now. Just pondering the retail or OEM Windows 7 decision.

If you don't mind using 8(.1), then 8(.1) OEM (system builder) has a way better licensing then 7 OEM, because 8(.1) allows you to move the licence to a new machine, whereas 7 is tied to the mainboard you first installed it on. You can do the same with the 7 retail licence, but its typically more expensive.

I'm not saying for or against, its just something to keep in mind.

 

[tommyncal]

I haven't really tried either W7 or W8. It just seems the majority of users, strictly from reading comments, prefer W7. From post #2, above from Torn Mind, there's the possibility that the license for W8.1 (OEM) refers back to the same as W7 (OEM). I don't know which is correct. But I would have no reason to change my mainboard, other than failure. 120Gb is more than enough. I don't store videos and all my photos are stored on an external HDD. My C drive now has only 35Gb used up on a 500Gb HDD.

 

[Torn Mind]

It would be a shame if they reverted that policy. Link?

http://www.zdnet.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-your-windows-8-1-upgrade-options-7000021554/

There’s also a big change in the terms attached to OEM System Builder versions of Windows 8.1. With Windows 8, Microsoft introduced a new Personal Use License, which allowed anyone to buy an OEM System Builder copy of the software and install it on a PC that is intended for personal use. Windows 8.1 removes that rider from the OEM System Builder license agreement, which means that the license agreement once again is for use on PCs built for resale only; the terms prohibit installing an OEM System Builder copy of Windows 8.1 on a PC for personal use.

I would think that if he bought 8 and upgraded to 8.1, he should be okay. His Win8 license was legit and should remain in force after the upgrade

 

[tommyncal]

So, I don't want to start a huge debate, is W8 or W8.1 not as bad as it is made out to be? I don't have a touch screen monitor and I'm coming from XP.

 

[Torn Mind]

I haven't really tried either W7 or W8. It just seems the majority of users, strictly from reading comments, prefer W7. From post #2, above from Torn Mind, there's the possibility that the license for W8.1 (OEM) refers back to the same as W7 (OEM). I don't know which is correct. But I would have no reason to change my mainboard, other than failure. 120Gb is more than enough. I don't store videos and all my photos are stored on an external HDD. My C drive now has only 35Gb used up on a 500Gb HDD.

I personally don't get what the big deal is for Windows 8. Yes, perhaps Microsoft could have provided some actual documentation instead of a brief visual tutorial that only runs when first setting up your Windows account; all it tells you to move your mouse to the corners. That advice is helpful. But obviously, if the account is already set up, then you don't get to see that tutorial. Once I got used to it, I don't mind the new UI all that much if just doing "point and click" computing.

I do think the Start screen is a bit clunky and those unaware of how to close apps might struggle with how to close them at first. But the "type in and search" feature remains and there is a shortcut to the desktop provided on the Start screen. Metro apps are closed by clicking and dragging down. Getting to the "all apps" screen can be done quickly; you can right click on the Start screen or if on desktop, move the mouse to a right-side corner and click "Search"

I do like the fact that the Control Panel is quicker to access in 8 than in 7 while you are on the desktop; move the mouse to a right-handed corner and it will be there. The Control Panel is pretty much the same.

Another benefit is that it takes up less hard drive space for the main install.

One con is that Aero Glass is pretty much gone, so W8 is not as aesthetically pleasing as Windows 7.

I have not tried 8.1, so I don't know what changes did they do to it.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

http://www.zdnet.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-your-windows-8-1-upgrade-options-7000021554/



I would think that if he bought 8 and upgraded to 8.1, he should be okay. His Win8 license was legit and should remain in force after the upgrade

Didn't microsoft replace the system builder version with a full retail version for 8.1? From that link:

Instead, every retail copy includes a full license.

To me that means if you buy a retail copy of 8.1, it means you get a full licence. Could someone who is more into the intricacies of licensing clarify? Would be nice to know.

 

[Torn Mind]

Didn't microsoft replace the system builder version with a full retail version for 8.1? From that link:



To me that means if you buy a retail copy of 8.1, it means you get a full licence. Could someone who is more into the intricacies of licensing clarify? Would be nice to know.

As far as I know, vendors like Newegg do sell OEM versions or 8.1; but 8.1 also has more expensive full-blown retail versions with the pretty boxes.

Based on the whole paragraph that sentence is in, what Microsoft got rid of was the separate "upgrade" license, which was supposed to be installed on a computer with a legit previous Windows install and not supposed to be used on a machine with no previous Windows OS or pirated Windows(obviously, workarounds to getting an upgrade license have been used). In other words, there will be no Windows 8.1 Upgrade boxes being sold like there was for 7 and 8. Just full retail and OEM versions.

For Windows 8, there was no full retail version at all, just an upgrade version and the OEM version. If you wanted a "full retail" license of Windows 8 for personal use, you bought the OEM version and agreed to the terms of the Personal Use license. That license is transferable to a new computer.