Advice for a new machine: budget, timelines, usage & known information provided

[surfjungle]

OVERVIEW
- I'm looking for a new PC (just the box and everything in it).
- Before posting this, I read several of the existing and recent posts regarding PC upgrades and have assimilated this information with regard to below. Because CPUs are a large driver for upgrades, including mobos, I though this forum the most apt.

USAGE (in order of frequency)
- PHOTOGRAPHY: processing 22MP raw/dng files in Lightroom.
- GAMING: first person shooters etc.
- VIDEO EDITING: up to and including high definition with Avid or similar. No 4K stuff.

BUDGET, TIMELINE, LOCALE
- No more than €3000 or $3600 for the box and everything in it.
- I cannot buy until late February or early March. I have to save first.
- As I live in Ireland, I will not buy from American sites such as NewEgg as I would have to pay massive import duty. This makes me a little more constrained since tech over Europe is that bit more expensive.

CURRENT MACHINE (from November 2008)
- PROCESSOR: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83 GHz, Yorkfield, 45nm
- MOBO: EVGA 132-CK-NF78 (nForce 780i SLI)
- RAM: 8 gigs DDR2, Dual Channel, PC2-6400, 400 MHz
- GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX280, 1 Gig, 65nm
- HARD DRIVE (OS): Western Digital 10K RPM Raptor 300 GB
- HARD DRIVE (Storage): Western Digital 7.2K RPM 1 TB
- OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
- SOUND CARD: Creative Fatal1ty
- CASE: adequate
- PSU: adequate.
- DVD RW: adequate.

KNOWN INFORMATION
- I want a completely new machine and I will not be reusing anything from my old machine.
- I will be running Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit on the new machine. I don't like the look of Windows 8. I may choose to dual boot Fedora.
- The new Intel Haswell processors will be out at the earliest in June. However, there doesn't seem to me massive changes as Haswell is on Intel's tock cycle, correct me if I'm wrong. From what little I currently know, the processor seems to the only thing that may be worth waiting for - are there any other major hardware changes coming soon? With my November 2001 upgrade, I remember once missing USB 2.0 by about 1-2 months.
- Ideally, I would like the tech to be quieter as occassionally I find myself having to sleep with the PC powered on.
- I may choose to overclock the CPU somewhat (balanced with acoustics) if the vendor can do it so liquid cooling may be required.
- I work with large amounts of data in regard to photos and movies and will need adequate space and backup capacity (including optical).
- I don't like Creative and ideally, would not like a creative sound card due to bad hard- and software experiences.
- I probably won't go for SLI / Crossfire - just get a single great graphics card.

REQUIRED INFORMATION
- What hardware should I buy?
- When should I upgrade, in relation to Haswell and / or any major new tech updates?
- Do you know of any (english language) sites where I can configure and buy a PC in Europe? I don't want to do this myself. I won't be buying in Ireland nor online at Dell or Alienware. I have found better online places such as the configurable 3XS systems built by www.scan.co.uk. Alternatives are welcome.
- As an aside to this, do you have any professional / gaming monitor recommendations - I'm considering something by Eizo - any viable alternatives? I'm thinking IPS based.

FINALLY
- Thank you kindly for your patience and effort in reading and perhaps responding - kind regards, surfjungle.

 

[dma0991]

With your purchase being around Feb-March, I'd suggest waiting for Haswell anyway. I'm pretty sure your current machine could hold up for an extra 3-4 months. If you're not willing to wait a while longer, you're looking at a Core i7 3770K build or a Core i7 3930K build, both require different motherboards.

The general idea is that you should get a SSD with the next rig you build. Preferably 256GB or higher. As for the sound card, you could go with Asus. They make good sound cards like the Xonar Essence STX, a perfect match with headphones.

 

[surfjungle]

@dma0991: that's sound advice.

SSD is probably the most performance oriented upgrade for me. I have my eye on an OCZ 512 GB one.

I also have my eye on the Asus Xonar as it was an alternative option on one of the 3XS systems from scan.co.uk. I think that's the first time I realised that Asus did sound cards. Good to know the Asus Xonar Essence STX is good with headphones because I exclusively wear them - I have no speakers.

I have been looking at the Core i7 3930K but did not realise that different mobos were required for processors within the i7 family so thanks for that.

 

[MrSquished]

my uses are the same as your first two - i edit 16MP Raw Files in LR4 and have started mucking about with 32 bit HDR as well. the next most intensive thing i do is play fps like bf3.

i just upgraded from a Q6600 to an i5 3570K oc'd easily to 4.4ghz with 16gb (2x8gb) on an asrock z77 extreme 4- and the difference is night and day. all told those three things with a cheap hyper evo heatsink cost just over $400. i would suspect coming from a core 2 quad to an i5 or i7 will be a huge jump equal to getting an SSD - and with both together it will be ridiculous.

i did however re-use multiple items from my old rig due to major $$ restraints.

i did read the i7 3770k has perhaps a 5% increase in performance over the i5 for things like photo and video editing. however instead of paying 169 for the chip it was going to be $60 more and i couldn't justify the money - preferring to save that towards an SSD upgrade.

if you can find deals now on things like the i7 at places like MicroCenter's equivalent's overseas, discount tech places, and boards like the Asrock z77 extreme 4 or 6 and on RAM i would strongly consider upgrading now. Haswell will have a price premium when it comes out and in the meantime you will have had months of enjoyment of your new rig. learn to build it yourself, it's not that hard and very enjoyable and will last you a lifetime of rebuilding yourself and upgrading desktops.

i7 3770k, 2x8gb pc1600 ram, asrock z77 mobo, hyper evo + cooler, get a 128 or 256gb ssd for your OS and proggies depending on how many you install, and then grab a 128gb ssd for your cache drive for photos and videos. then a couple of nice 1-2TB drives you can keep all your work on and back it up to using synctoy.

im running bf3 at a native 1900x1200 resolution with a 58501gb card with most settings on high or ultra, no AA though but FPS stay 50-60 (V-sync on) so if you have the money, go for something like a 7870 2gb card for some good game future proofing, otherwise a 7850 which can be found for like 160 after rebates i think.

case-wise just do research for the quiet ones. power supply again if you are looking for quiet do your research but a nice antec or corsair ps around 700w is just fine. im running all my stuff on a corsair 620 from 4 years ago just fine, and ssd use far less power than spindle drives.

 

[Solomutt]

OVERVIEW
- I'm looking for a new PC (just the box and everything in it).
- Before posting this, I read several of the existing and recent posts regarding PC upgrades and have assimilated this information with regard to below. Because CPUs are a large driver for upgrades, including mobos, I though this forum the most apt.

USAGE (in order of frequency)
- PHOTOGRAPHY: processing 22MP raw/dng files in Lightroom.
- GAMING: first person shooters etc.
- VIDEO EDITING: up to and including high definition with Avid or similar. No 4K stuff.

BUDGET, TIMELINE, LOCALE
- No more than €3000 or $3600 for the box and everything in it.
- I cannot buy until late February or early March. I have to save first.
- As I live in Ireland, I will not buy from American sites such as NewEgg as I would have to pay massive import duty. This makes me a little more constrained since tech over Europe is that bit more expensive.

CURRENT MACHINE (from November 2008)
- PROCESSOR: Core (Quad) 2.6 GHz
- RAM: 8 gigs DDR2
- GPU: GTX280 1 Gig.
- HARD DRIVE (OS): Western Digital 10K RPM Rapton 300 GB
- HARD DRIVE (Storage): Wester Digital 7.2K RPM 1 TB.
- OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
- SOUND CARD: Createive Fatal1ty.
- MOBO: MSI & adequate.
- CASE: adequate
- PSU: adequate.
- DVD RW: adequate.

KNOWN INFORMATION
- I want a completely new machine and I will not be reusing anything from my old machine.
- I will be running Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit on the new machine. I don't like the look of Windows 8. I may choose to dual boot Fedora.
- The new Intel Haswell processors will be out at the earliest in June. However, there doesn't seem to me massive changes as Haswell is on Intel's tock cycle, correct me if I'm wrong. From what little I currently know, the processor seems to the only thing that may be worth waiting for - are there any other major hardware changes coming soon? With my November 2001 upgrade, I remember once missing USB 2.0 by about 1-2 months.
- Ideally, I would like the tech to be quieter as occassionally I find myself having to sleep with the PC powered on.
- I may choose to overclock the CPU somewhat (balanced with acoustics)if the vendor can do it so liquid cooling may be required.
- I work with large amounts of data in regard to photos and movies and will need adequate space and backup capacity (including optical).
- I don't like Creative and ideally, would not like a creative sound card due to bad hard- and software experiences.
- I probably won't go for SLI / Crossfire - just get a single great graphics card.

REQUIRED INFORMATION
- What hardware should I buy?
- When should I upgrade, in relation to Haswell and / or any major new tech updates?
- Do you know of any (english language) sites where I can configure and buy a PC in Europe? I don't want to do this myself. I won't be buying in Ireland nor online at Dell or Alienware. I have found better online places such as the configurable 3XS systems built by www.scan.co.uk. Alternatives are welcome.
- As an aside to this, do you have any professional / gaming monitor recommendations - I'm considering something by Eizo - any viable alternatives? I'm thinking IPS based.

FINALLY
- Thank you kindly for your patience and effort in reading and perhaps responding - kind regards, surfjungle.

I'd use AMD, but that is more of a platform and brand loyalty choice. For the price of that SSD, why not just get two (2) fast 2 or 3 TB hard drives, and mirror them (motherboard can do this), unless your vendor lacks the option, and you lack the desire to self-configure. I would STILL go hard disk, simply for the typical longevity they see now. There are hard disks wth built-in SSDs acting as huge (64 GB in one case, iirc) caches.

Moving on.... I would buy a robust machine that either uses integrated graphics, or has a cheapo card in it. Machines with great graphics in the box are typically overpriced, due to being geared for gamers willing to pay for a "no assembly required" rig.

Buy a separate graphics card. I'd have the vendor put in (2) 8GB sticks of RAM, so you can hit 32 GB when ready, or just flat buy the 32 now.


Overclocking may not be an option on boards used by big vendors, as a "by the way"....

 

[ShintaiDK]

Ivy Bridge now or wait for Haswell. If you can wait I would wait for Haswell.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Haswell comes with major new ISA changes, including AVX2, and TSX. Both should help with multi-threaded multimedia software.

I would wait, if at all possible.

 

[Markfw]

Not sure, but with your usage profile and budget, and refresh cycle, I would go 3930k. There is nothing like 12 threads @ 4.2 or better ghz for the tasks you list. Gaming will not get you more than 3570 or 3770k, but the other 2 sure will.

 

[nyker96]

I personally would wait for haswell, the new AVX seems to be geared for multimedia software. would be best fit for your usage pattern. plus will be same money.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Not sure, but with your usage profile and budget, and refresh cycle, I would go 3930k. There is nothing like 12 threads @ 4.2 or better ghz for the tasks you list. Gaming will not get you more than 3570 or 3770k, but the other 2 sure will.

What do you use all those computers listed in your sig for?

 

[surfjungle]

Lads,

Thanks for all the answers - ye've given me quite a bit to think about. I'll get back to you later tonight or tomorrow.

Kind regards,
Surfjungle.

 

[nature1ders]

You don't think, you wait for Hawell! OMG

 

[surfjungle]

Hi again,

Thank you kindly for your insightful responses. Since ye have spent so much time writing responses, I thought I'd aggregate the results.

Here's what I've learned

• dma0991:
  • Wait for Haswell or if not get either a i7 3770K or a i7 3930K processor.
  • Get an SSD, 256 GB or larger.
  • Asus Xonar Essence STX soundcard as an alternative to Creative and is very good for headphones.
• PixelSquish:
  • Worth overclocking i5/7 processors with plenty of RAM and a good mobo. Processor update over Q series will be significant.
  • SSD will be a big benefit over hard disks.
  • Be aware of the trade-offs between usage and cost of chip, especially where the cost is high and the benefit is not so high. Past a certain level of processor (i5), money is better invested in SSD.
  • Asrock Z77 mobo is good.
  • Upgrading now might be a better idea as Haswell won't be out till June, will have a price premium and if I upgraded now, I will have enjoyed and have been productive for about a half year already.
  • Build the PC yourself, it's a good life-skill to have.
  • [posted_spec_of_a_sample_machine]
  • Invest in a good graphics card to future proof the rig.
  • Research quiet cases and power supplies.
• Solomutt
  • Favour disk drives over SSD for longevity or go for a hybrid.
  • Go for integrated graphics, then buy a separate graphics card and install if I am not building the machine myself.
  • Be wary of overclocking on big vendors mobos as I may not be able to do so.
• ShintaiDK
  • Wait for Haswell [no_reason_specified].
• VirtualLarry
  • Wait for Haswell as it comes with major new ISA changes including AVX2 and TSX which should both help with multi-threaded multimedia software.
• Markfw900
  • Don't wait and go for the i7 3930K which has 12 threads and plenty of processing power with regard to multimedia. Gaming doesn't anything past i5 3570 or i7 3770K.
• nyker96
  • Wait for Haswell as the new AVX is geared toward multimedia software and will save me money.
• nature1ders
  • Wait for Haswell [no_reason_specified].

Conclusion

• As I am still saving, I'm going to wait until March to make a decision. The main decision is to either get a PC in March with an i7 processor or wait for Haswell.
• There does not seem to be any other major updates other than processor - perhaps the current mobo may change as as result of Haswell - is there a socket change?
• I have several other items to think about above such as the Asus Xonar Essence, quiet technologies, building the PC myself, etc.

Thanks again for all your help!
Surfjungle.

 

[Danimal1209]

Building your own pc is extremely easy and saves a lot of money.

I mean think about it.

When you buy your case and motherboard, the motherboard can only sit in the case one way, then you screw it in to place. Unlock the cpu latch and slowly put the cpu in place, it also only fits one way. Close the latch to put it in place and put some thermal paste on the top of it. Attach the cpu heatsink and fan and screw that in place. Plug in your hard drive and slide it in place. Put your RAM in and lock them down. Put your power supply in and screw it in place, same for the graphics card. Them plug everything in for power and to the motherboard.

A whole new build for someone who hasn't done it before should take around 1-2 hours.

 

[surfjungle]

Howdy Danimal1209. I have done some repair and upgrade work on PCs before but have never actually built one myself. I also have a certain Scott Mueller book from many years ago around somewhere. After reading the above, I would be more inclined to build it with me own hands.The most pernickity parts of building seem to be mounting the motherboard, connecting the CPU, PSU and non-SATA device cable sto the motherboard such as audio etc. After that, it seems much more easier. If you can advise any up-to-date online guides, I could make use of them.

 

[Cerb]

If you have to wait that long, anyway, try to wait for Haswell. You have a nice aging rig, now. Improvements in active idle, combined with an SSD for the OS/apps/PF/scratch, should make an easy to quiet rig, that sips power when you're not banging on it. Also, photo and video editing software are very likely to get AVX2 implemented ASAP.

Look into Corsair and Fractal Design for good quiet cases for the money*, Seasonic as a slam-dunk PSU choice, and Asus as a good sound card choice, as far as hardware easy to spec out right now.

A quiet OOtB PSU, case with good airflow, but also baffling, nice quiet fans (which may or may not come with the case: standard sizes, like 120mm, help, here), and a big CPU HSF, will help a lot for noise; but the specific choices will be best made with the rest of the PC specified, already, and may change based on part availability.

So, basically, try to wait for Haswell, then come back and ask about purchasing parts for the computer ASAP, at that time.

If you can advise any up-to-date online guides, I could make use of them.

http://www.mechbgon.com/build/index.html

It's old, but not enough has changed to matter, except for PATA pretty much having gone away.

Get the motherboard stand-offs in the right places--only where the mobo actually has screw holes--and everything else is pretty easy. Aftermarket heatsinks can throw a wrench into it, but nothing major.

* My previous go-to Antecs have been getting lots of poor QC user reviews, in the last 6-12 months.

 

[dma0991]

You don't need a guide. The provided motherboard manual is very comprehensive when it comes to assembling your own PC from scratch. In fact, you probably need the manual when you attach the front panel connectors anyway.

 

[surfjungle]

@ dma0991 - you are probably right about the guide - I've had a look at my current mobo manual and it's quite detailed but it never hurts to have something to fall back on : )

@ Cerb - Looks like the other savings for quietness in addition to performance are worth waiting for too. Thanks for the Fractal and Corsair case and Seasonic PSUI advice I will definitely look these up as well as the guide.

 

[surfjungle]

I've been looking up the latest Haswell information and have found this TomsHardware article and am curious as to why there are no 6 and 8 core processors - it it because it is Haswell Ivy Bridge and not Haswel Sandy Bridge? If so, why is there no mention of it at a later date?

It says that Sources indicate that a number of Haswell CPU's should be released on the 2nd of June and that related products will be showcased just days later at Computex 2013. Could these be the more advanced, performance intensive processors?

I'm looking for somebody to disambiguate the article - from my perspective there is not much point waiting for Haswell if the more better processors aren't coming out until Q3 or Q4 of 2013.

 

[SammichPG]

@dma0991: that's sound advice.

SSD is probably the most performance oriented upgrade for me. I have my eye on an OCZ 512 GB one.

I also have my eye on the Asus Xonar as it was an alternative option on one of the 3XS systems from scan.co.uk. I think that's the first time I realised that Asus did sound cards. Good to know the Asus Xonar Essence STX is good with headphones because I exclusively wear them - I have no speakers.

I have been looking at the Core i7 3930K but did not realise that different mobos were required for processors within the i7 family so thanks for that.

Stay away from ocz and anything sandforce powered.
Samsung, crucial and intel are the brands you want when buying an ssd with reliability in mind (with crucial coming third, but with a good track record).

Some intel ssds use sandforce controllers with intel's tuned firmware but I still wouldn't trust them.


You could get one more year of usage out of that q9550 with a 3.4 (easy) or a 3.8ghz (harder)imo overclock, get a pci express sata3 card and an ssd though.

I find myself using my dual core laptop equipped with a crucial m4 more often than my q9550 dekstop because the ssd makes everything smoother.
That's what kind of difference an ssd makes in user experience, I'm not doing anything cpu intensive though.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Stay away from ocz and anything sandforce powered.
Samsung, crucial and intel are the brands you want when buying an ssd with reliability in mind (with crucial coming third, but with a good track record).

Some intel ssds use sandforce controllers with intel's tuned firmware but I still wouldn't trust them.

I like the Intel SSDs, but I've also had a lot of luck with the Vertex 4 drives. I'm also pretty sure the "Vector" drives are good, too.

That being said, if you want peace of mind, just go Intel/Samsung/Crucial and forget about it

 

[SammichPG]

I like the Intel SSDs, but I've also had a lot of luck with the Vertex 4 drives. I'm also pretty sure the "Vector" drives are good, too.

That being said, if you want peace of mind, just go Intel/Samsung/Crucial and forget about it

That's my point, for most people ocz works but when you don't care about the extra 15-50$ on your boot drive why playing the lottery?

 

[ElFenix]

Moved to General Hardware as it fits better here

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[Sleepingforest]

I've been looking up the latest Haswell information and have found this TomsHardware article and am curious as to why there are no 6 and 8 core processors - it it because it is Haswell Ivy Bridge and not Haswel Sandy Bridge? If so, why is there no mention of it at a later date?

It says that Sources indicate that a number of Haswell CPU's should be released on the 2nd of June and that related products will be showcased just days later at Computex 2013. Could these be the more advanced, performance intensive processors?

I'm looking for somebody to disambiguate the article - from my perspective there is not much point waiting for Haswell if the more better processors aren't coming out until Q3 or Q4 of 2013.

Intel doesn't really do more cores (except for high end server parts). Instead, each core in middle/higher end parts can use hyper-threading to achieve a similar effect. You'll be served well by the i7-4770K (Haswell's equivalent to the i7-3770K, if I'm not mistaken).

I think you're confused about Intel's CPU nomenclature. Basically, each generation is given a code name: Sandy Bridge (2011), Ivy Bridge (2012), Haswell (2013), Broadwell (2014), and so on. You can't have a "Sandy Bridge Haswell" or an "Ivy Bridge Haswell"; you're trying to combine the names of discrete generations of CPUs.

The actual name of each chip is a little harder to understand, but it's not too bad. The i3/i5/i7 notation at the beginning of each chip name generally segregates by feature (i3 has fewer cores and less cool abilities like hyper-threading, i5 generally is 4 cores with nearly every feature, and i7 has 4-6 cores and all the features). The next number tells us the generation it comes from, so an i3-2XXX would be a Sandy Bridge chip, while an i3-3XXX is Ivy Bridge and an i3-4XXX is Haswell. The next two numbers indicate their relative strength WITHIN A GENERATION (so an i3-2220 outclasses an i3-2120, but may lose to the next generation's i3-<u>3</u>120). The last number generally indicates the strength of the integrated graphics (an i3-3225 has better graphics than an i3-3220). Generally, if you have a dedicated graphics card, the last number doesn't matter so much.

Finally, there's the letter at the end of the whole thing. "K" indicates that it has an unlocked multiplier and is thus easy to overclock. "T" generally indicates that it's a stripped down, lower TDP version. I don't know all of the letters, but there's also an "S" version and "P" version I believe.

Pop quiz: what can you tell about the i7-4770K I recommended earlier?

Answer: It's a high end, fully featured (likely with hyper-threading) Haswell generation chip that is is easily overclocked. Because I didn't list all the other chips, you can't tell that much about it's relative strength.

I hope this helps.

 

[Torn Mind]

Go with Ivy Bridge.

My reasons are:

Increased productivity at a sooner time.

Platform immaturity of Haswell. Bugs might pop up.

There might be delays in the launch of Haswell.

If you wait until Haswell's launch, the Ivy Bridge will be sold at a lower price than their Haswell counterpart.