Advice for a new guy

[Neoalose]

Hi!
So, as you can see, I literally just joined. Was talking to some people about a project I am planning and was directed here by them.

I am starting to plan a computer build for a senior project in high school. I plan to make a computer that can easily handle playing games such as BF3/BF4 as ebst as possible, and possibly even live streaming/game recording at the same time. My price range is up to $2100, but I can go up to $2600 if I find good reason.

My main concern is a good power source, and video card. And if going AMD for processor is better since on newegg the best AMD processor is 5 times cheaper than the best Intel, and faster.

I also have no previous experience with building computer, but am going to learn and do it one way or another!

I don't mind buying from outside the country, but if I can, I want to try to buy within the US, but if the part is made well, I'll buy from wherever necessary.

I also understand very little about overclocking, and so I plan to not do it, as this is also going to be my computer I plan to keep and upgrade for a long while if possible, and don't need parts melting in my computer... :/

The resolution of my monitor is not determined yet, but until college rolls around, my "monitor" will be my 43" plasma TV

And I plan to building this over the summer, and into the end/beginning of 2014, as that is my time constraint for my senior project.

And yes, I will need an OS, preferably windows or some kind of Linux based one.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Welcome! You can easily build an excellent computer AND get a great monitor right away; your budget allows for an excellent 27" 1440p monitor right away with the graphical power necessary to run it!

The first thing you have to know about CPUs is that clock speed doesn't mean anything by itself, as AMD and Intel have different instructions per clock efficiencies. This means that Intel is still faster, despite having fewer GHz next to the processor.

Secondly, overclocking an unlocked CPU (Intel CPUs which have a name of i#-####K) by a small amount is very easy. Simply download something like the Intel Extreme Tuning utility, slide up the multiplier to a nice 42, and then do a quick stability check. If you don't increase the voltage of the CPU, there is no risk of melting or even really damaging the CPU.

Here's a build which fits within your budget (not counting taxes, which could be as little as $0 or as much as $200, depending on what state you are in):
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($319.27 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master 212 Hyper EVO ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Biostar TZ77XE3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Wintec Value 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($50.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.82 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($399.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Antec Eleven Hundred ATX Full Tower Case ($111.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified Power Supply ($54.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer ($17.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Full (64-bit) ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: HP ZR2740w 60Hz 27.0" Monitor ($687.58 @ Newegg)
Total: $2139.57 shipped

I included a 4 core/8 thread processor because it seems like games are going to become more multithreaded thanks to the 8-core consoles and you have the budget. The SSD is for your programs, OS, and whatever games you will be playing frequently; the HDD is there for document, music, video, and other bulk file storage. If you don't like Windows 8, go with the Windows 7 Home Premium OEM edition for $90 (I chose Win8 simply because you get a full license rather than the OEM one).

 

[Neoalose]

Thanks for replying SleepingForest!
I have a question for you:
If I got rid of the monitor in the cost list, would it be possible for the computer to be able to increase in Memory, and and possibly a second CPU (if its possible to do so) ?
Thank you a lot! Especially for the fast reply!

 

[Sleepingforest]

You will not benefit as a gamer from using 2 CPUs or more RAM, nor is the former even possible without getting an extremely expensive motherboard and CPUs designed specifically to be run at the same time.

You don't really benefit by spending more than $1400 or so on the computer hardware--the rest is better spent in peripherals like a good mouse, a nice keyboard, a large monitor, or audiophile headphones and DAC/amp (just examples).

Also, now that I read more closely, I see that you're planning to build far later into the future. Since prices shift a ton, take this more as a guideline of what parts/prices for parts are appropriate than a strict list.

 

[mfenn]

And I plan to building this over the summer, and into the end/beginning of 2014, as that is my time constraint for my senior project.

This is a pretty long way away in terms of picking out computer parts. SF's build is good, but you should treat it more as a general guide instead of a hard and fast list of parts to get.

 

[Ken g6]

First that monitor is really expensive. You can downgrade several components there easily.

A second CPU is very expensive and probably not worthwhile for you.

But what is this senior project you're ostensibly getting this for?

 

[Neoalose]

The senior project is a project in which you pick whatever you wish to do, do a report of some kind, and create some sort of model, presentation, etc. I decided that since I was going to be given a computer for my Senior graduation next year, I decided to make building it as my big project!

And I had wondered about the second CPU because I originally wanted to get: AMD FX-8350 4.0GHz (4.2GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ Eight-Core Desktop Processor ($199.90 at Newegg)
and wondered if a second one was applicable here


my other concern was is getting 32GB of memory now and keeping it a good idea?

 

[Sleepingforest]

The i7-3770K (and its replacement this year, the i7-4770K) has 4 cores and 8 threads, which gives it effectively the same number of cores of the FX-8350, and it will overclock to run at the same number of GHz anyway if that is your concern.

It's not a good idea to buy extra memory because prices are up right now.

Basically, there are a few factors that contribute to this:

1. When windows 8 was launched, all the major manufacturers started stockpiling. Windows 8 wasn't as successful as everyone wished it was, so everyone stopped production and started clearing out stock. That was a few months ago. Now, there still is little production and stocks are getting low, therefore prices up.
2. Copy/paste point 1 with AMD's Piledriver.
3. The mobile and tablet market are taking off, so a lot of focus has been shifted from desktops to making chips for tiny little mobile devices.
4. Chinese New Year. Those son o' bitches party for a freakin' month. No one goes to work, nothing gets made. Availability falls, and prices rise.

Here's why you probably won't need more than 8GB RAM for gaming.

As long as coders write games in 32-bit, your prediction will never happen.

Back in 2003, 2004, various pc magazines and websites predicted 32-bit operating systems would fall to the wayside by the end of the decade.

Here we are in 2013, and microsoft still offers a 32 bit version of windows 7. Who can we blame for keeping 32 bit alive? Most of the blame needs to go to microsoft.

What is holding us back is no longer the operating system, or the hardware, it is the developers. Until 64 bit programs are written to use the available memory, having more then 8 or 12 gigs is overkill.

 

[Neoalose]

The standard will come out after the project and my budget is around though, that's the issue :/
And I also wish to avoid overclocking as I am inexperienced, and don't want risk messing up the part...

One thing that doesn't make any sense is how a quad core, with double the threads, can be almost as good as an 8 core, when that would mean that it would have half the hardware processing for the same amount, while the 8 would process for one thread alone allowing for a lesser chance of over heating in the cores themselves.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Okay, overclocking is so brain-dead easy that anyone who can build a computer (IE, follow instructions carefully) can also overclock. It's also pretty safe as long as you don't increase voltage--if you don't increase voltage, the i7-3770K will actually have less voltage running through it than the FX-8350.

I can't explain how hyperthreading works, but it does it's job. If you look at the benchmarks, you see that the i7-3770K wins in most categories and doesn't lose by much the few times it does. It also performs MUCH better for gaming due to better instructions per clock (which is why it can do better despite having a lower default clock speed).

Here's a review that may explain the engineering behind hyperthreading. Note that the technology has improved substantially in the last decade, so that hypertheading effectively makes each core function like nearly 2 cores.

 

[Neoalose]

This is what I created after realizing that I don't need a monitor, I have something coming up that will throw one my way. Can stick with an old one just to test and present this when the time comes.

And I sprang for the 16GB of ram because I looked at some articles and found that not only is the new standard not released till next year, but I would need to buy a whole new motherboard and I also only have the money and time to build this from starting now, to about December or so, and this should last me into college :/

And I also took your advice on the processor after reading about 15 articles and studies on each one and their comparisons, along with some hyperthreading articles. Thanks for telling me about that Silver!



PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus SABERTOOTH Z77 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($239.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Diamond Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($399.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Thermaltake Level 10 GT Snow Edition ATX Full Tower Case ($224.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 750W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG UH12NS29 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($49.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) ($129.98 @ Outlet PC)
Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance K90 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($125.00 @ Mechanical Keyboards)
Mouse: Corsair Vengeance M60 Wired Laser Mouse
Total: $1804.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

 

[mfenn]

One thing that doesn't make any sense is how a quad core, with double the threads, can be almost as good as an 8 core, when that would mean that it would have half the hardware processing for the same amount, while the 8 would process for one thread alone allowing for a lesser chance of over heating in the cores themselves.

What AMD's marketing department labels as a "core" on Bulldozer/Piledriver CPUs is not the same thing as a full core on an Intel CPU or an older AMD CPU. It can only do integer operations and has to share a floating-point unit with it's neighbor. Performance wise, that makes it somewhere between a core and a core+HT.

 

[mfenn]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus SABERTOOTH Z77 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($239.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Diamond Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($399.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Thermaltake Level 10 GT Snow Edition ATX Full Tower Case ($224.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 750W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG UH12NS29 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($49.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) ($129.98 @ Outlet PC)
Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance K90 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($125.00 @ Mechanical Keyboards)
Mouse: Corsair Vengeance M60 Wired Laser Mouse
Total: $1804.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

This machine is more expensive and slower than SF's build.

I advise you to go back to SF's build and compare part by part. The places where you're spending significantly more money (e.g. motherboard, case, cooler, PSU) are not getting you any real-world benefit. Your build is actually slower than SF's because it lacks an SSD of any kind.

 

[TY-1]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus SABERTOOTH Z77 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($239.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Diamond Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($399.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Thermaltake Level 10 GT Snow Edition ATX Full Tower Case ($224.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 750W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG UH12NS29 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($49.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) ($129.98 @ Outlet PC)
Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance K90 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($125.00 @ Mechanical Keyboards)
Mouse: Corsair Vengeance M60 Wired Laser Mouse
Total: $1804.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

This machine is more expensive and slower than SF's build.

I advise you to go back to SF's build and compare part by part. The places where you're spending significantly more money (e.g. motherboard, case, cooler, PSU) are not getting you any real-world benefit. Your build is actually slower than SF's because it lacks an SSD of any kind.

I've got to agree with mfenn's advice to you. You are overspending in some areas and getting little in return for it.

CPU: The i7-3770K is only worth the money if you really do need the hyperthreading. The only exception I would add is if you can indeed get it from a Microcenter, but that requires that you actually go to the Micorcenter; the deal is an in-store deal only from what I understand.

CPU COOLER: Noctua is topshelf when it comes to aftermarket coolers. The only thing I would caution with the NH-D14 is that it is rather bulky and heavy. Make sure you have the space in your case to fit it and that the RAM you are going to use has enough clearance for it. A good, cheaper, alternative is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 series. Also, if you are willing to spend the money there's always the All-Inclosed Water Cooler option.

Motherboard: I would definitely advise against the ASUS Sabertooth Z77. It is one area that you are definitely overspending and getting little in return. The Thermal Armor is an expensive gimmick and really doesn't lower or protect from thermals all that much. There are many better motherboards out there that are both cheaper and offer more accessories. When shopping for a motherboard you should be asking yourself what things do you want it to have. Do you want integrated WiFi, WiDi, Bluetooth, do need extra SATA ports, do you want Thunderbolt(I don't know why you would considering that there isn't a whole lot out there right now that utilizes it), are you looking for great overclocking ability, etc.

I would suggest looking at some of the Z77 boards from Asrock, MSI, and Gigabyte. Asus also has some great Z77 boards that offer more bang-for-the-buck than their Sabertooth model.

RAM: You really only need 8GB but if you are really wanting 16GB I would not go with what you've selected. The G.Skill Ripjaws X modules may have clearance issues if you do get the Noctua NH-D14. If you really want 16GB of RAM and the NH-D14 I would suggest either the Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2x8GB) or the Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4x4GB). Neither should have clearance issues with the NH-D14 and both are faster than the G.Skill Ripjaws X that you currently have selected.

Storage: The Seagate Barracuda 1TB is a good HDD and comes with a decent pricetag so I would keep that. I would definitely suggest getting a SSD to load your OS, and any other other programs that you want to be very quick responders, onto. This is one area to reinvest money saved elsewhere in the build. I would suggest the OCZ Vertex 4 128GB, the Crucial M4 128GB, and the Samsung 840 Pro 128GB. All three are good, reliable, fast SSD options that are well priced.

Video Card: This is another area where you can reinvest money saved elsewhere in the build. I would ditch the Diamond 7970 since it is just a re-branded reference design Radeon 7970. Instead I would go with the Sapphire 7970, the Gigabyte 7970, or the Sapphire 7970 Ghz. All three are faster, have better thermal performance, and are similarly priced.

Case: The Thermaltake Level 10 GT is a good case but it has a hefty pricetag, especially considering it is a Mid-Tower. I would suggest a cheaper case from Corsair, Coolermaster, Fractal, Antec, or Rosewill. All of those brands offer similar performance and options (USB 3.0, side windows, great cable management, excellent airflow, etc.) for much better pricing.

PSU: You've picked out a good PSU, but if you want one that has the same features (750w, modular, 80+ GOLD rated) for a better price I would suggest the Seasonic X750.

Optical Drive: You may not use this all that much so sinking a lot of money into it can be a waste. However, if you are going to be using your PC for a lot of media watching (and you have a large collection of DVD's) then you definitely want a reliable optical drive. I would change this to just a DVD reader/writer instead of a Blu-ray reader due to the issues of trying to watch Blu-ray on a PC. These issues stem from the fact that SONY holds the patent on Blu-ray rather tightly so you are going to need to buy Blu-ray playback software to play any Blu-ray discs on your PC. However, this can be problematic as the different playback software suites often have issues playing new Blu-ray movies when those movies are first released (requiring updates from the software manufacturer in order to have successful playback). If you already have a separate, external Blu-ray player just hook that into your monitor instead as it is a far easier and more consistent option for successful Blu-ray watching. If you really want it internally in your PC be prepared to spend an additional $50-$100 on the software and having playback headaches from time to time on new releases.

OS: Windows 8 is what it is. If you are comfortable using it then buy it. I would caution you about the OEM version, however, because it can only be used on a single computer build. Once you register it to that computer that's it, you can't use it on any later builds. This might not be an issue for you if you aren't planning on building another PC for a couple of years (as you'll go with whatever new OS is out then), but if you should have a major hardware failure in your current build after you load the OEM version you might be out of luck when you have to replace parts (especially if it is the motherboard that needs replacing). I've heard of people being able to reuse their OEM versions of Windows after major hardware replacements due to hardware failures, but it seems that each had to spend a good chunk of time talking with Microsoft Support in order to do so and the experience was migraine inducing. Now that being said, the chances of you having an issue like that is relatively low so I wouldn't worry too much about it; just keep it in the back of your mind.

 

[Neoalose]

I understand everything that you guys are saying, and I wanna say thank you, but my question is, for gaming, would it be better to wait for Intel's next processor coming out in three months or just grab the current one as I want to stick with the fastest I can as once this is built this is how it will stay for a while because I won't have money after this build. Whatever isn't spent go towards others thing I need for college.
And for the other things, I will definitely take your guys advice, especially on the motherboard and the ram, and is getting an SSD of a bigger size if budget allows it worth it at all?

And crap I meant end of 2013 or beginning of 2013... Sorry for the screw up...

 

[Sleepingforest]

Aren't you building this over the summer? That's when Haswell will release. Weigh in the fact that USB 3.0 is rumored to not to work well with Haswell, and that there is only a 5-10% increase in capability.

 

[Hubb1e]

Go back to Sleeping forest's build. You're wasting a lot of money on things that won't benefit you. And a 750W PSU is WAY overkill for a system that you claim will not be overclocked. At full load your system will barely touch 300W. A decent 500W PSU is more than enough and cheaper.

Also, if you're going to stick to your "no overclocking" claim, then several of your parts are also over specced. If you don't want to overclock, then you don't need a different CPU cooler. The stock cooler will work just fine. And if you do want a cooler, you don't need the most expensive cooler you can find. If you don't overclock you don't need more than a 400W PSU. If you don't overclock you don't need a $200 motherboard. You could get a basic $60 motherboard and you're good to go.

Not overclocking is silly really. It's there and so easy and even semi sanctioned by Intel, hence the K series chips specifically released for overclockers. Even my wife's computer is overclocked a little bit. You can even write about it in the senior project. Go back to SF's build. Or Mfenn has a nice build everyone quotes as well that is a little bit cheaper than SF's build because he uses the i5 vs the i7.

The moral of my post is that these guys know what they are doing. They have this down to a fine art form and there is a lot of stuff out there that is designed to make you spend more money than you realistically need to. Trust them, ask questions, and don't fall for marketing gimmicks.

 

[TY-1]

I understand everything that you guys are saying, and I wanna say thank you, but my question is, for gaming, would it be better to wait for Intel's next processor coming out in three months or just grab the current one as I want to stick with the fastest I can as once this is built this is how it will stay for a while because I won't have money after this build. Whatever isn't spent go towards others thing I need for college.

Given that you are looking at College expenses I would definitely suggest looking at Mfenn's Budget Build as it gives an excellent example of a $1000 budget build. You can tweak it here and there if you don't mind expanding your budget, but I would strongly suggest staying under $1500 if you do expand your budget. You can always add hardware or make upgrades later on if you build wisely the first time around. Also, there are going to be other things to spend money on in college (textbooks are especially expensive depending upon what the class requires, buy online and used unless you absolutely need it by the next day for class).

And for the other things, I will definitely take your guys advice, especially on the motherboard and the ram, and is getting an SSD of a bigger size if budget allows it worth it at all?

An SSD is always a smart move to make. If your budget allows it get the largest, quality made one you can find. The key word here is quality. There are plenty of SSD models on the market but there is a core group of quality brands. Samsung is pretty much king right now with manufacturers like OCZ, Intel, Mushkin, and Crucial not that far behind depending upon the model. Tom's Hardware does a great comparison every month of the best SSD for a certain price range (March's Comparison). There are also plenty of other sites around the net that do SSD comparisons and recommendations based upon price range and size range if you want to get a few other opinions and see which SSD routinely comes out on top for your budget.

Aren't you building this over the summer? That's when Haswell will release. Weigh in the fact that USB 3.0 is rumored to not to work well with Haswell, and that there is only a 5-10% increase in capability.

I'm also going to be building a new system soon and am waiting for Haswell to drop as I skipped both Sandy and Ivy anyways. I'm not too worried about the USB3.0 bug because I don't run many things from a USB peripheral.

If you are going to be building over the summer I think it is definitely a good idea to start running ideas past people now, especially if this is your first build (solo or otherwise). I was lucky in that I had a good deal of knowledge before I made my first build. I had friends in highschool that were really into building computers and knew the local computer hobbyist store regulars fairly well so I learned a great deal hanging out with them at that little hole-in-the-wall store. I learned so much that I actually was able to do my workstudy in college with the University IT guys so I got what I like to refer to as my graduate education in computer hardware and software at the time.

My point is, you've got time so ask questions and get educated so that you can not only put together a build that works for you but also be able to easily maintain and troubleshoot should any unforeseen issues arise later on. Also, being knowledgeable enough to fix the small computer hardware and software issues that come in college is a great way to meet and befriend people, just like having a basic toolbox and tools does (seriously, a set of screwdrivers and some how-to knowledge got me invited to more parties and in with cute girls than being on varsity sports in highschool ever did).

 

[Essence_of_War]

I'll beat the "listen to mfenn and Sleepingforest"-dead-horse also. They were super helpful when I was putting together my build recently. I remember specifically some silly decisions related to PSUs that I almost made...

Be careful about spending more than about $12-1400 on a build. If you get much past that, you're spending money past the diminishing returns point for almost everything. It's ALWAYS tempting to have the shiniest toys. But the toy manufacturers know that and price accordingly for their high-level marginal improvements. If you really do have $2k set aside, I'd look to include getting:

1) A nice monitor (or 2! OR 3!). You can get 24in ultrasharps for $300 right now. You can get 23in ones for around $230! They're good monitors and they'll likely remain solid choices for longer than your gpu will remain a top contender!
2) A keyboard and mouse that you like.
3) At least 1 external/expansion drive to back-up your data, games etc.

Also, if you're accepted/enrolled in the university, look into if your university has any software agreements with microsoft, apple, etc. Many universities allow students to get Windows 7 or 8 for free for home use!

I found this useful to educate myself:
http://www.logicalincrements.com/

The related blog is neat too. Especially this article on how to build a PC to play Crysis 3:
http://www.logicalincrements.com/games/crysis/

Choice of CPU, GPU, and monitor definitely feed-back into each other and it's worth being aware of! Note that the "outstanding" line gets Crysis 3 to ~50-60fps on a 1080 monitor for ~$1300....

 

[random2]

"Given that you are looking at College expenses I would definitely suggest looking at Mfenn's Budget Build as it gives an excellent example of a $1000 budget build. You can tweak it here and there if you don't mind expanding your budget, but I would strongly suggest staying under $1500 if you do expand your budget. "

TY-1 you're confusing the issue. OP has a budget and others have given infallible advice based on that.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I really do recommend spending less if there is reason to. Many people set aside X amount of money specifically and only for a PC build, so they should spend to their budget limit on parts that make sense. I will pretty much never recommend SLI, CFX, or a Titan simply to fill a budget.

On the other hand, some just have "disposable" income that they have yet to allot, but they come asking to see what they can get with that amount of money. I recommended to the OPs budget level because he (yes, I'm assuming he's a he) says he needs a monitor for college--if he didn't need a monitor, I wouldn't have asked him to spend that much. But in many cases, I recommend spending less, simply because it doesn't make sense to spend more.

Any reason why you would resort to such scathing sarcasm?

 

[TY-1]

"Given that you are looking at College expenses I would definitely suggest looking at Mfenn's Budget Build as it gives an excellent example of a $1000 budget build. You can tweak it here and there if you don't mind expanding your budget, but I would strongly suggest staying under $1500 if you do expand your budget. "

TY-1 you're confusing the issue. OP has a budget and others have given infallible advice based on that.

He's adjusted that budget twice now, going from $2100-$2600 to $1800-$2000. In both instances he's been advised by multiple people that he is overspending on parts and getting little in return for doing so. He's also stated that any money he doesn't use in the build will be put into his expenses at college (which is smart as there are many things to spend money on in college and expenses can quickly mount). Given that he is open to adjusting his budget, is open to using advice to build wisely, and does want to save some extra money for when he gets to college I don't see how I'm confusing the issue. For what he seems to want to do with the build I think it is wise to use Mfenn's $1000 build and tweak it here and there as needed. Also, if he really is going to wait to build until the summer (I'm assuming sometime between mid-June at the earliest and the beginning of August at the latest) he can afford to wait, run ideas past people in order to get the best advice possible, and learn about what one should look for in a good computer build.

Also, if you're accepted/enrolled in the university, look into if your university has any software agreements with microsoft, apple, etc. Many universities allow students to get Windows 7 or 8 for free for home use!

Yes, this is something to keep in mind. I got a bunch of great software for free or dirt cheap when I was in college (example: I got the Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit upgrade for $8 and Office 2010 Professional University for free from my university when I was working on my doctorate). Check with your college's IT department to see what they might offer.

I really do recommend spending less if there is reason to. Many people set aside X amount of money specifically and only for a PC build, so they should spend to their budget limit on parts that make sense. I will pretty much never recommend SLI, CFX, or a Titan simply to fill a budget.

On the other hand, some just have "disposable" income that they have yet to allot, but they come asking to see what they can get with that amount of money. I recommended to the OPs budget level because he (yes, I'm assuming he's a he) says he needs a monitor for college--if he didn't need a monitor, I wouldn't have asked him to spend that much. But in many cases, I recommend spending less, simply because it doesn't make sense to spend more.

Sorry, I thought he said that he had a monitor lined up already after he posted the $1800 build. Maybe that was just his original mention of using his TV as the monitor and I got confused.

Anyway, if he is looking for a good monitor I would recommend this 24" ASUS 144Hz. A friend of mine just got one and it looks phenomenal. He's going to get two more to do a triple monitor setup once he gets the extra cash, but that won't take long since it is sitting at $260 over at NCIX-US and $310 at both Newegg and Amazon.

Any reason why you would resort to such scathing sarcasm?

Uh, were you referring to me or Random2 with that remark, Sleepingforest?

 

[Sleepingforest]

I was refering to Random2's final remark with my final remark. TY-1, you have been helpful and polite this entire time.

 

[mfenn]

TY-1, excellent advice overall!

OS: Windows 8 is what it is. If you are comfortable using it then buy it. I would caution you about the OEM version, however, because it can only be used on a single computer build. Once you register it to that computer that's it, you can't use it on any later builds.

I do want to comment on this bit though. With Windows 8, Microsoft changed the license agreement on the System Builder version so that you can move it around between systems that you own.

 

[TY-1]

TY-1, excellent advice overall!

Thanks, just trying to help where I can. I remember what it was like when I first started out and that was well before the Internet had so many guides and help sites on it. As I've mentioned previously, I learned because of some friends in highschool and hanging out with them and the local computer store owner/operators (Charlie, the store owner, was actually the guy who taught me how to solder because he was still modding boards for some of the more enthusiast customers back then). I'm just glad that not only are people willing to help those who are just starting out but also that man of those seeking advice are willing to take the time and learn how to make a good build by wisely utilizing their budgets. I'm personally sick and tired of seeing/hearing people talk about how they spent $1000-$1300 on a Dell/HP "Gaming System" that only has a locked i5 CPU, a GTX650/GTZ660, and no SSD and how it was such a "great deal" (even some of the various gaming boutiques are slightly guilty of this). Anything I can do to prevent such things from continuing is not only a benefit to me but to computer users everywhere.

OS: Windows 8 is what it is. If you are comfortable using it then buy it. I would caution you about the OEM version, however, because it can only be used on a single computer build. Once you register it to that computer that's it, you can't use it on any later builds. This might not be an issue for you if you aren't planning on building another PC for a couple of years (as you'll go with whatever new OS is out then), but if you should have a major hardware failure in your current build after you load the OEM version you might be out of luck when you have to replace parts (especially if it is the motherboard that needs replacing). I've heard of people being able to reuse their OEM versions of Windows after major hardware replacements due to hardware failures, but it seems that each had to spend a good chunk of time talking with Microsoft Support in order to do so and the experience was migraine inducing. Now that being said, the chances of you having an issue like that is relatively low so I wouldn't worry too much about it; just keep it in the back of your mind.

I do want to comment on this bit though. With Windows 8, Microsoft changed the license agreement on the System Builder version so that you can move it around between systems that you own.

Oh, I wasn't aware that Microsoft had changed the license agreement on the System Builder versions of Windows 8. That's good to hear.