Advantages of Macbook pro?

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
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Does the Macbook pro occupy a unique niche market with thunderbolt/retina display or do Windows based laptops also have thunderbolt and similarly good displays and are generally cheaper?
 

lakedude

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2009
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Apple's displays are very nice, they are practically unmatched in the industry.

If you want or need a display that has that high of a resolution than an Apple is a fine choice.

Thing is not everyone needs a display that nice. It has been a long time since pixel size was a big issue. A 0.41mm dot pitch CRT monitor looked terrible back in the day. Back then it made sense to spend a little more to get a better monitor.

These days 1080p and better resolutions are very common and they are good enough for a great many people. Thing is Apple only sells at the high end. Where is Apple's $400 laptop?

BTW these features seem a bit cherry picked just to come out in Apple's favor, almost like you knew the answer before you asked the question...
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
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0
Apple's displays are very nice, they are practically unmatched in the industry.

Until Samsung, Lenovo, Asus, and Sony surpassed them last year.. Apple had a pretty nice lead simply by buying up all the supply of higher resolution panels.

That said, Macbook are premium grade notebooks at a extremely premium price. Unless you want to act snooty at Starbucks, there's not much advantage to them that you won't find in other premium notebooks.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
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I have am ivy bridge macbook pro for work. Yah the screen is nice but honestly unless you are some display snob the IPS 1080 screens on a lot of windows machines are not significantly worse to merit the huge price difference. Plus there are PC laptops like the envy 14 touchsmart and the new thjnkpad that have 3200x1800 . I can't say much about thunderbolt all anyone uses them for at work is ethernet adapters since the pro doesn't have one. I'd imagine USB 3 would work for 99% of the use cases so whatever
 
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s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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Until Samsung, Lenovo, Asus, and Sony surpassed them last year.. Apple had a pretty nice lead simply by buying up all the supply of higher resolution panels.
Yup. You shouldn't buy Apple for the best panels. But if they've convinced you that you really want Thunderbolt...
 

Galatian

Senior member
Dec 7, 2012
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The Apple products are not as overpriced as everyone tries to make you think. Look at notebooks with the same spec and the same built quality. You will pretty much price out the same. Also since OS X updates are now free you will have a future proof system.

That being said if you need/want a high dpi screen I would go with OS X all day long, because - at least for their own products - they have the scaling right. I heard that even with windows 8.1 dpi scaling is still pretty much hit and miss.

I use my 13" rMBP mostly for text work. I take it to university and write my own iBooks for me and my colleagues. Having very clear text is nice on the eyes for longer periods off time.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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Also since OS X updates are now free you will have a future proof system.
Wait, what variety of crack are you smoking?

There's no such thing as "future proof".

Further more, all Mac hardware is crippled by their hilarious refusal to acknowledge the greatest & only UI advance in 20+ years: the touchscreen.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
81
Wait, what variety of crack are you smoking?

There's no such thing as "future proof".

Further more, all Mac hardware is crippled by their hilarious refusal to acknowledge the greatest & only UI advance in 20+ years: the touchscreen.

Having used a windows 8,touchscreen laptop for about a month I'd have to say the touchscreen on a laptop / desktop is pretty worthless. Thats my opinion but it really is slower for doing just about everything not to mention totally awkward feeling having to move your hands from screen to keyboard to screen
 

Galatian

Senior member
Dec 7, 2012
372
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Wait, what variety of crack are you smoking?



There's no such thing as "future proof".



Further more, all Mac hardware is crippled by their hilarious refusal to acknowledge the greatest & only UI advance in 20+ years: the touchscreen.


No need to be rude. I've been using touchscreen ever since the iPhone and the iPad came out. They are good devices for what they are: mobile consumption devices that lets you use them while on the go. Are you doing that with your Notebook? I'm not saying touch screens on notebooks are bad per se, but it feels like Microsoft nor other vendors have quite figured out how to use them. I type on my notebook at university and it's connected to 3 2560x1440 monitors at home. You really think I'm going to bend over all the time to use the touch screen? To paraphrase you: "what variety of crack are you smoking?"

You really think Apple who almost one handily introduced touch screens to the broad masses has no prototype of a notebook with touch screen? Why are none on the market? Because it simply doesn't make sense, except of some fringe cases. Windows 8.1 ultrabooks that double as a tablet still lack on battery compared to arm powered devices. Desktop apps are PITA to use on touch screens. They are not there yet.

That being said the touchpad of my rMBP is the best I have ever used. I use the gestures daily and they have increased my productivity enormously. That's the way to go IMHO, but to each their own. Just don't try to claim touch screens on notebooks are the best thing since sliced bread because the market obviously disagrees with you.
 
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vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
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- You can run OS X on them.
- Also your female friends will probably either have one or want one.
- You can dress them up with a lot more readily available skins and cases.

Those are the sole advantages.
 

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
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Wait, what variety of crack are you smoking?

There's no such thing as "future proof".

Further more, all Mac hardware is crippled by their hilarious refusal to acknowledge the greatest & only UI advance in 20+ years: the touchscreen.

I think for someone in Applezombieland, 'future proof' means '4 years max', since that's their maximum long-term memory.
 

Galatian

Senior member
Dec 7, 2012
372
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What's with all the hate? Fact is MacBook Pros are not as expensive as they are claimed to be. Fact is OS X has Hi-DPI better managed then Windows 8.1. Fact is the built quality is outstanding and so is battery life.

If that doesn't matter to you get any other brand. No hard feelings. Just guys...don't make fools out of yourself by such stupid comments.
 

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
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Have you looked at actual productivity battery life when you're not testing the ideal Mac-encoded video playback loop on your totally stripped-out Mac?

Have you looked at engineering excellence / viability as opposed to how slick the black PCB looks?

Have you looked at how blurry HiDpi is on the retinas once you get past the distinctly unproductive native retina resolution?

Have you looked at what productive and more practically effective alternatives you could get for the same money?

There's marketing, and there's substance. Some people go all-in on the former.
 

Galatian

Senior member
Dec 7, 2012
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Have you looked at actual productivity battery life when you're not testing the ideal Mac-encoded video playback loop on your totally stripped-out Mac?

Yes: again I used Windows based Laptops for quite some time. I used a 13" MacBook Air and now a 13" rMBP daily at university, without a charger. handles that all fine.

Also explain to me how my 13" rMBP is stripped-out? I don't feel like it's missing anything at all.

Have you looked at engineering excellence / viability as opposed to how slick the black PCB looks?

Yes I did. There fan design is excellent. They are using state of the art technology (Hi-DPI screens, PCIe SSDs). Their machines are both exceptional functional and good looking, but too each their own. I suggest you make some solid point. What exactly do think is not of high quality with Apples engineering?

Have you looked at how blurry HiDpi is on the retinas once you get past the distinctly unproductive native retina resolution?

Have you used a 13 or 15" rMBP before? I don't think you have. It's not blurry. I use it all day. It's a HUGE difference when you work a lot with texts and pictures. You can use scaled resolution for more desk space if you really think you can't work on the retina resolution.

At this point, with this comment about blurriness I think you are just trolling.

Have you looked at what productive and more practically effective alternatives you could get for the same money?

Yes I have. A comparable Asus Notebook cost just the same (ASUS ZENBOOK UX301LA). HP does offer something similar for the same price. Dell doesn't have anything like that in the ballpark. Sony neither. Lenovo has a few coming, but no pricing information so far...that's like what 1 1/2 years after Apple introduced the MacBook Pros with Retina Display?

If you suggest stuff feel free to post examples...I'd like to follow your train of thought.

There's marketing, and there's substance. Some people go all-in on the former.

And then there are people that rehash lies about Apple over and over again. You have yet to disprove my points:

  • Other notebooks vendors charge the same for similar Hardware
  • Touchscreens are mostly a fail on Desktops/Notebooks; the technology is not there yet; tablets and notebooks are not ready to merge yet
  • Hi-DPI is managed way better on Apple Hardware/Software

Try to keep this classy and make a point with examples. So far you make claims and not prove them at all. It's not really helping answering the OPs question.
 
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lakedude

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2009
2,778
529
126
Until Samsung, Lenovo, Asus, and Sony surpassed them last year.. Apple had a pretty nice lead simply by buying up all the supply of higher resolution panels.

That said, Macbook are premium grade notebooks at a extremely premium price. Unless you want to act snooty at Starbucks, there's not much advantage to them that you won't find in other premium notebooks.
I'm personally not a big Apple fan because I either want a cheap laptop for surfing or a gaming/desktop replacement and Apple sells neither.

What they do sell are ultra-books with very nice screens and it isn't just the resolution. They come color calibrated from the factory, they are always the best grades of panels which are free from defects, they are large color gamut, etc.

Like I said personally I have no use for such a gem but they do have a niche.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,938
190
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......
These days 1080p and better resolutions are very common and they are good enough for a great many people. Thing is Apple only sells at the high end. Where is Apple's $400 laptop?

BTW these features seem a bit cherry picked just to come out in Apple's favor, almost like you knew the answer before you asked the question...

I wasn't cherry picking the questions , I just wanted to find out if those advantages still hold true today. I didn't find the retina display to be that much better (but I don't know what characteristics of the retina display to look for) from other laptops.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,938
190
106
......
Yes I did. There fan design is excellent. They are using state of the art technology (Hi-DPI screens, PCIe SSDs). Their machines are both exceptional functional and good looking, but too each their own. I suggest you make some solid point. What exactly do think is not of high quality with Apples engineering?

Have you used a 13 or 15" rMBP before? I don't think you have. It's not blurry. I use it all day. It's a HUGE difference when you work a lot with texts and pictures. You can use scaled resolution for more desk space if you really think you can't work on the retina resolution.

........

Can you use the larger scaled resolutions under vmfusion Windows? Or is it only under MacOS?
 

AViking

Platinum Member
Sep 12, 2013
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My experience shopping for a laptop recently says that the Macs are very competitively priced if you compare feature to feature. I don't want to spend that much for either a PC or a Mac, and I really don't want a Mac, but those saying that the Macs are overpriced probably need to take a second look. Also there are a few things that they seem to do better than the competition like their trackpad.
 

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
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Yes: again I used Windows based Laptops for quite some time. I used a 13" MacBook Air and now a 13" rMBP daily at university, without a charger. handles that all fine.

Also explain to me how my 13" rMBP is stripped-out? I don't feel like it's missing anything at all.



Yes I did. There fan design is excellent. They are using state of the art technology (Hi-DPI screens, PCIe SSDs). Their machines are both exceptional functional and good looking, but too each their own. I suggest you make some solid point. What exactly do think is not of high quality with Apples engineering?



Have you used a 13 or 15" rMBP before? I don't think you have. It's not blurry. I use it all day. It's a HUGE difference when you work a lot with texts and pictures. You can use scaled resolution for more desk space if you really think you can't work on the retina resolution.

At this point, with this comment about blurriness I think you are just trolling.



Yes I have. A comparable Asus Notebook cost just the same (ASUS ZENBOOK UX301LA). HP does offer something similar for the same price. Dell doesn't have anything like that in the ballpark. Sony neither. Lenovo has a few coming, but no pricing information so far...that's like what 1 1/2 years after Apple introduced the MacBook Pros with Retina Display?

If you suggest stuff feel free to post examples...I'd like to follow your train of thought.



And then there are people that rehash lies about Apple over and over again. You have yet to disprove my points:

  • Other notebooks vendors charge the same for similar Hardware
  • Touchscreens are mostly a fail on Desktops/Notebooks; the technology is not there yet; tablets and notebooks are not ready to merge yet
  • Hi-DPI is managed way better on Apple Hardware/Software

Try to keep this classy and make a point with examples. So far you make claims and not prove them at all. It's not really helping answering the OPs question.

The problem is that it's like debating a creationist - you begin with those points you hold dear as immutables while ignoring the points I put across as a dissenting Mac owner and screaming Proof! Proof! while making Schopenhauer sarcasm reality. It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.My difference is that I also own a swathe of the competition and I use them every day - and the rMBP's are *not* my machine of choice, partly for the reasons I put forward (among others) - and are reserved for times I have to walk around with OS X.

One thing I will answer - Retina, yes it is blurry if you use it outside of the (to me, pretty useless - why do I want e.g. a 1280 x 800 display, however sharp it seems to be, on a modern 13-inch computer now?) native Retina mode. I've had this 'discussion' before but the non-integer-scaling dithering in OS X means that the text waves around for me in the way it does not on a HiDPI machine in Windows (like my XPS 15).

The very top point is however a response to a mis-phrasing of mine - I meant that 'Apple runtime is amaaaaaazing' types usually hypermile their machines, tweaking it for least consumption by getting rid of even generally required extensions, then line them up against PC they haven't even bothered to learn it's power management features on. That, and since there's no generally agreed cross-platform metric to measure productivity use, things such as runtime tests are run which plays to OS X's strengths - I'm not sure if it's a conscious bias, but it seems to run the gamut in many publications - and the thing is that you have to ask what people are doing most of the day when they're working.

Just a small example, but in terms of the supposed hardware superiority (and the fact that Windows laptops with superior-performance storage exists is ignored of course) and taking the PCI-E storage you mentioned, I can tell you that it takes approximately 2.5 seconds for a small spreadsheet email attachment to open on a Late '13 rMBP (yes, with PCI-E storage) in Numbers. The same thing on a mSATA-equipped Sony Ultrabook in Office 2013 takes less than 1.5 seconds. I also know that in general productivity use - i.e. not browsing media-heavy websites in an automated manner or watching movies constantly, Windows notebooks from the 'big hitters' tend to hit their stated runtimes to the same degree as, if not usually notably better than, an Apple notebook - especially if you actually make use of the power saving features provided by the vendor.

I can already anticipate your answer, but as I said it's like debating creationists and I'm really not bothered about arguing every point down. I've said the reasons why you should buy a Macbook. They are valid and accurate reasons.
 
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Galatian

Senior member
Dec 7, 2012
372
0
71
The problem is that it's like debating a creationist - you begin with those points you hold dear as immutables while ignoring the points I put across as a dissenting Mac owner and screaming Proof! Proof! while making Schopenhauer sarcasm reality. It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.My difference is that I also own a swathe of the competition and I use them every day - and the rMBP's are *not* my machine of choice, partly for the reasons I put forward (among others) - and are reserved for times I have to walk around with OS X.

You know you haven't done much except calling names and not keeping it classy. Why do you have to resort in such tactics to "prove" your point?

One thing I will answer - Retina, yes it is blurry if you use it outside of the (to me, pretty useless - why do I want e.g. a 1280 x 800 display, however sharp it seems to be, on a modern 13-inch computer now?) native Retina mode. I've had this 'discussion' before but the non-integer-scaling dithering in OS X means that the text waves around for me in the way it does not on a HiDPI machine in Windows (like my XPS 15).

I'm sorry...I don't get it...I switch to scaled resolution all the time. It's sharp, not blurry. That's the way Apple implemented it, by calculating bigger pictures and then downscaling it. I think that's not how Windows 8.1 does it. If you don't trust me go ahead read the review of the Retina MacBook Pros on two off the most reputable sites when it comes to tech: Anandtech and Arstechnica

Or just google some more. Show me where all the persons are that complain about blurry scaled resolutions?

The very top point is however a response to a mis-phrasing of mine - I meant that 'Apple runtime is amaaaaaazing' types usually hypermile their machines, tweaking it for least consumption by getting rid of even generally required extensions, then line them up against PC they haven't even bothered to learn it's power management features on. That, and since there's no generally agreed cross-platform metric to measure productivity use, things such as runtime tests are run which plays to OS X's strengths - I'm not sure if it's a conscious bias, but it seems to run the gamut in many publications - and the thing is that you have to ask what people are doing most of the day when they're working.

Define "generally required" extensions? I got two Thunderbolt Ports and two USB 3 Ports, one HDMI port, one SDXC Card reader. There is headphone output, which can also double as a digital output. Exactly what is lacking?

Also battery life measurement is certainly difficult with two different operation systems. Although there are several reviews using a Windows partition to test battery life (for example the Engadget review). Here the 13" rMBP is mid - top tier when it comes to battery life.

That being said, what's so wrong about a more energy efficient OS? If I get more battery juice out from OS X doing the same task, what's so wrong about it in your opinion? I don't get your point...

Just a small example, but in terms of the supposed hardware superiority (and the fact that Windows laptops with superior-performance storage exists is ignored of course) and taking the PCI-E storage you mentioned, I can tell you that it takes approximately 2.5 seconds for a small spreadsheet email attachment to open on a Late '13 rMBP (yes, with PCI-E storage) in Numbers. The same thing on a mSATA-equipped Sony Ultrabook in Office 2013 takes less than 1.5 seconds. I also know that in general productivity use - i.e. not browsing media-heavy websites in an automated manner or watching movies constantly, Windows notebooks from the 'big hitters' tend to hit their stated runtimes to the same degree as, if not usually notably better than, an Apple notebook - especially if you actually make use of the power saving features provided by the vendor.

Apples and Oranges? You compare opening times off a spreadsheet on Numbers to opening it on a Office 2013. Come back to me, when you use the same setting for testing.

Oh and read the reviews...they all state that Apple usually even underestimates their battery time.

I can already anticipate your answer, but as I said it's like debating creationists and I'm really not bothered about arguing every point down. I've said the reasons why you should buy a Macbook. They are valid and accurate reasons.

Sorry I hate to tell you this...you are acting like the "creationist" here. You are making claims, I disprove them, then you make even more dubios claims, fall to calling names and post flawed comparisons...

Again I beg you to keep this classy...no need in insulting me.
 
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ithehappy

Senior member
Oct 13, 2013
540
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As it's about display mainly, isn't thunderbolt display made by LG? I mean the panel is of LG right?
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,820
136
I have the latest 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro, and it's pretty safe to say that vbuggy is way, way off the mark.

The display is gorgeous. It's not as high-resolution as the 3200x1800 panels in some laptops, but it's still sharp, color-rich and bright. And yes, it remains crisp at non-native resolutions. I use it at the "looks like 1440x900" setting all the time, and I've also used it at the 1680x1050 equivalent without issue.

Battery life is also wonderful. Sorry to destroy your stereotypes, vbuggy, but I *have* used the Haswell rMBP in real-world conditions, and it still holds up. I've used the system with several browser tabs open, a Twitter client, a chat client and periodic uses of Photoshop, iPhoto and iMovie... after about 5 hours, I still had half my battery left. I haven't actually drained the battery completely in one session yet, and it's not for lack of trying.

You get a MacBook Pro because you like a well-designed laptop with a great display, exceptional battery life, brisk performance, the best trackpad in the business and a free suite of well-regarded media and productivity apps. There are very good Windows laptops out there, but I don't regret picking up the rMBP for a moment.
 

fire400

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2005
5,204
21
81
my experience;

new lenovo keyboards with the chic-let (thinkpads); keyboard sucks for playing broodwar, chic-let style.

apple notebooks are awesome. but not a big fan of their touch pads. prefer thinkpad t-line touch pads.
 

Franco_Barba

Junior Member
Sep 7, 2012
19
0
0
Thing is Apple only sells at the high end. Where is Apple's $400 laptop?

'We're not in the junk business'

Tim Cook-

Is not only a premium product, the prestige and name of the company as with everything plays a role in the price. Also customer service and guarantee is part of the price. Yo have a problem with any apple product go to the apple store and get in fixed or replaced (I got 3 free iPhones and 2 laptops over the past years) Buy any other brans and you will have to work very hard and use a lot of your time to get the warranty or service to work for you. Peace of mind has a price. Also the detail of everything, from the box and wrapping to the manuals and cables everything is elegant and very detailed. Is not necessary the best computer available in terms of hardware, but definitively is the one with the best design, quality and you can feel it when you use it, touch it and carry it. You are paying the hight ticket for the whole package: Prestige, excellent customer service and warranty, detail on every aspect, excellent quiality and overall very good performance.


The top tier Mac Book Pro with Retina Display 15'' cost $2,599.00 (16GB, 2Gb Nvdia 750M, 512 GB Flash SSD, and i7. http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=ME294LL/A&step=config

The Toshiba Toshiba Portege Z930-BT9300 Ultrabook with 8GB, 256GB SSD, no dedicated video cost $1,939.00

$600 Less for half the SSD capacity no dedicated video, and half the memory. If the Mac is overpriced people at Toshiba are insane. http://www.toshiba.com/us/computers/laptops/portege/Z930/Z930-BT9300
 
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