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Advantages of high FPS.

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VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
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At frame rates that high it might not affect you,
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Good, so we agree then.

I can't agree for sure since I have never tried it and you haven't either, 100 frame drop is a big gap and I doubt that you won't notice something. So you cannot use that arguement because it can go either way and you haven't tested it.

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but from 85 to 65 constantly fluxuating sucks ass.
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Can you please point out where I ever used those two numbers as an example to refute your statement about fluctuation? I didn't - I used 300 - 200, and with good reason too I might add.

Do you think you'd see a difference between a maximum 300 FPS and a guaranteed minimum 200 FPS? If not then my point stands.

These numbers are REAL, high numbers we can all get and it just goes to show you that fluctuating sucks.

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I was playing dod today and norton systemworks checkup started and thats what happened and it was crappy, such high framerate and such choppiness.
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I really fail to see the relevance of discussing background processes.

Well, that background process was what cause the fluctuation.

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Im just saying that consitancy is better than fluctuating fps.
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If the minimum framerate is higher than the constant framerate then your statement is false. Again I'll state that something like 120-80 FPS is always better than a constant 60 FPS.

If you can notice fluctuation between 20fps difference then why wouldn't you in a 40fps difference. A consistant 85fps is better than a constantly fuctuating 120-80fps.

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If the fps fluctuates from 300 to 71, then there will be some jerky motion, if it is 70fps all the time, it will probably appear quite a bit smoother.
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Following your logic a constant 70 FPS will be jerky all of the time because 71 FPS is jerky and 70 FPS is lower than 71 FPS.

No, because 70fps is constant, 300 - 71fps is not constant. He's not saying that 71fps consistant rate is jerky.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
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I can't agree for sure since I have never tried it and you haven't either,
At such speeds you're well in excess of any mouse sampling limit so it's unlikely you'd notice a difference. But that's really not important as if by some chance you did notice a difference then we can use 3000 FPS vs 2000 FPS, or even higher. Eventually you'll get to the point where you don't notice a difference and then my original point stands because it has basis for fact.

100 frame drop is a big gap and I doubt that you won't notice something.
The gap is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether the maximum and the minimum framerate is above your threshold of smoothness. If they are you won't notice a difference, regardless of the gap between them.

These numbers are REAL, high numbers we can all get and it just goes to show you that fluctuating sucks.
You are getting hung up over irrelevant nitpicks and are completely missing the point of my examples.

Well, that background process was what cause the fluctuation.
And?

If you can notice fluctuation between 20fps difference then why wouldn't you in a 40fps difference.
(1) Because you have to look at as a percentage, not as raw number.

(2) Where did I say you wouldn't notice a difference between 120 FPS and 80 FPS? I didn't. I said it was better than a constant 60 FPS. If you want to talk about about not seeing differences between the maximum and minimum FPS then you'll see that's precisely why I used the numbers 300 - 200 in my second example.

A consistant 85fps is better than a constantly fuctuating 120-80fps.
That's arguable and beside, you've changed your story now. If you look carefully you'll see that my first example specifically had a minimum higher than the constant amount, the constant amount you claimed was smoother than either my maximum or my minimum. Now you've purposely sneaked in a higher constant value when you know very well that wasn't what you were arguing about to begin with.

No, because 70fps is constant,
You appear to be using the flawed reasoning that all that's needed in order to make something smooth is a constant framerate, which is false.

Using your (flawed) reasoning all you need is a constant framerate and the framerate itself is irrelevant. So is a constant 10 FPS smooth? Or how about a constant 3 FPS? Or constant a 1 FPS? Do you also claim that a 1000 FPS - 100 FPS range is worse than a constant 10 FPS solely because the former fluctuates but the latter doesn't?

Whether or not the framerate is constant is irrelevant. The reason something is jerky is because the current framerate is incapable of smoothly and accurately reproducing the current scene and your senses pick up on this fact. If both the maximum and minimum framerate are above the threshold required for your senses to perceive total smoothness then the amount of fluctuation is completely irrelevent. Or to put it another way, if the minimum framerate is high enough then it's totally irrelevant if the maximum framerate is 1, 10, 100 or 1000 FPS higher.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
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the maximum and minimum framerate are above the threshold required for your senses to perceive total smoothness then the amount of fluctuation is completely irrelevent

I agree, but that isn't a case we can have. Does your video card render that high, no. Until it can consistancy is what we need for these low framerates. I've even play at a constant 24 fps and it wasnt that bad. It was smooth. Smooth as in the timing was smooth, there was no jerkiness. Anything less than 24fps is too slow to play at. We need consistancy from 30fps up until we get to that threshold.
 

JeremiahTheGreat

Senior member
Oct 19, 2001
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With frame rate fluctuations, the computer sometime siezes and causes a "lag" although it will never show in the minimum FPS counter... just something i noticed. Even when i have "constant" 60FPS, there still is jerkyness.. but it can't be picked up by programs as the whole computer seems to freeze for that tiny second.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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I agree, but that isn't a case we can have.
We have 120-80 FPS now and it's better than a constant 60 FPS.

I've even play at a constant 24 fps and it wasnt that bad. It was smooth. Smooth as in the timing was smooth, there was no jerkiness
Then how could you have possibly found your Voodoo5 dropping to 68 FPS slow? 24 FPS is like 1/3 of that framerate.

Anything less than 24fps is too slow to play at.
Anything less than 60 FPS minimum is too slow. Actually I'll tolerate as low as 45 FPS but I prefer to never drop below 60 FPS.

but it can't be picked up by programs as the whole computer seems to freeze for that tiny second.
In fact the situation extends beyond that. Most framerate counters don't sample every frame but usually every 5 or 10 or so. That means that they won't show you fluctations that happen in between their sampled frames.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
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I agree, but that isn't a case we can have.
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We have 120-80 FPS now and it's better than a constant 60 FPS.

I don't know about you but I use vsync, my monitor doesn't scan over 85, and most people's don't either.


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I've even play at a constant 24 fps and it wasnt that bad. It was smooth. Smooth as in the timing was smooth, there was no jerkiness
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Then how could you have possibly found your Voodoo5 dropping to 68 FPS slow? 24 FPS is like 1/3 of that framerate.

In Steam there are commands to lower maximum framerate.


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Anything less than 24fps is too slow to play at.
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Anything less than 60 FPS minimum is too slow. Actually I'll tolerate as low as 45 FPS but I prefer to never drop below 60 FPS.

That is purely opinion. Many people play at 30fps. I remember myself playing at 30fps and enjoying it, not caring. Until I was spoiled at a minimum of 85fps vsync, that is my minimum and maximum. 60fps is too crappy - might as well be 30fps which is unbareable now.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
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I don't know about you but I use vsync,
I most certainly don't use it because it causes a multitude of serious problems.

In Steam there are commands to lower maximum framerate.
Uh...what?

Again I'll ask, if you found 24 FPS smooth why then did you claim that 68 FPS wasn't smooth?

That is purely opinion.
Yes it is, just like your comment that a minimum of 24 FPS is all that's required.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
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I don't know about you but I use vsync,
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I most certainly don't use it because it causes a multitude of serious problems.

I read this new article and I don't use it anymore. But tell me what kind of problems it has.

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In Steam there are commands to lower maximum framerate.
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Uh...what?

Again I'll ask, if you found 24 FPS smooth why then did you claim that 68 FPS wasn't smooth?

Sorry, didn't understand you previous question. As long as 68fps is at constant rate, it will be smoother than 24fps.

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That is purely opinion.
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Yes it is, just like your comment that a minimum of 24 FPS is all that's required.

I didn't say it is all that is required, I just said that it is playable as a minimum, but its not fun. 30fps should be the minimum. I played most of Spearhead at 24fps with the Ti4600.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
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But tell me what kind of problems it has.
The two main problems are framerate reduction due to various timing issues and an increase in input lag.

As long as 68fps is at constant rate, it will be smoother than 24fps.
68 FPS will always be smoother than 24 FPS regardless of whether either/both are constant or not.

I didn't say it is all that is required, I just said that it is playable as a minimum, but its not fun.
I said the exact same thing about 60 FPS.

30fps should be the minimum.
I get the feeling we're simply going around in circles with this conversation and never getting anyhere.