Adolf Hitler

[ChazJuarez]

nero, with you, I believe everyone would be damned if they did, damned if they didn't.

Mrs.Skywalker is right, we have the luxury of knowing the outcome of the war. I wonder how you would feel if in fact we involved ourselves from day one but LOST instead of won. Then you'd be condemning the US Government for getting involved when they didn't have to.

I can't tell, is the glass half full or half empty?

 

[EmperorNero]

ok, right after this post, I'm going to bed for real. and I'll continue this tomorrow.



<< I wonder how you would feel if in fact we involved ourselves from day one but LOST instead of won. Then you'd be condemning the US Government for getting involved when they didn't have to. >>



chazjurez, that is totally based on a hypothetical assumption. if we had indeed lost the war, I don't know how I would react - your assumption could be right, or it could be wrong. but from a 3rd person perspective, the US would still have done the right thing, unless all odds were against the US b/c that would have been a lost cause - but the US did recongnize somewhat how its involvment into the war would upset the axis advantage.

 

[Hyper99]

this isnt all uncourth my family and i was almost put to death using hitler's idea called concentraion camp
before they kill us they fed us as much as possible
and at the same time the vietnamese fought in and save our butt
this went on for 2 years before it was stopped by vietnamese, the cambodian holocaust started in 78
and ended in 80 it was a very sad time for me and my family.
they dig a very dig well about the size of a house and about 50 feet deep they planned to have one person at a time take off his/her clothes and smack them right up side on the the skull and where they will fall in one at a time. This history did repeat itself but in Cambodia they were as stupid and evil as hitler was.
known as the killing field where the gorvernment became communist
and the ruler was exactly like hitler.
He wanted everyone that is most wealthy, and most intelligent dead first and then the middle class as well and we were next after 2 yrs
Hitler reincarnated?
my grandma praised to god for health because at the time it was only
3 more day before my whole family, grandma, cousin, aunt and everyone
was put to death. they fed us really well too and so that how they
think it funny to see an overfed dead.

the american made a mistake starting a war with vietnamese and so they shall walk in shame.
american aint no perfect society they make mistake too
as you can see they done some bad thing as well
I think your started attacking vietnam in 70 and ended 10 year later?
American didn't save our butt it was the vietnamese
They decided to let some of us come over because they feel sorry for
what they have done to make us suffer like this.
My home country is really CHINA. My grandma was having a horrible life there and at 18 she got married and moved down to Cambodia
then I was born in 72, 6 year later everything was fuked
because of that stinking Cambodian.
I can tell you all about it and I ain't making this up I was there.
when I came here most american infact 99 percent of them did not like
me and they have no understand why we are here
thought we just ran here by choice
thought that we came here to steal your jobs etc to steal your land
nope, they got it all wrong.

 

[cfredc]

The holocast was nothing compared what the japanese did to all of asia and the POW's of WWII.... the Battan Death March and Shanghigh massacre.... i believe that the only reason that the japanese werent known of its atrocities than the germans was becasue they didnt actually target one specific minority... they targeted all.... just now in the news germany is going to pay billions of dollars to pay of the death camp slaves... what is japan doing... nothing... some of the people in the japanese govn still dont want to pay off the people they put to death by working them too hard... not to mention the sex slaves of korea... Tojo is comparable to Hitler, if not worse...

 

[reitz]

EmperorNero, my points had nothing to do with patriotism. I just really can't stand revisionist history with a PC spin designed to make innocent people feel guilty.

I was also responding to your boast that you just completed History 10, and should know what you are talking about. Unfortunately for you, your original post is still filled with innacuracies.

<< it was w/ pearl harbor that the US started increasing their involvment >>

Read up on the &quot;Lend-Lease Act&quot;, and you'll know that was not the case. If this class taught you this, then I have good reason to seriously doubt everything else it taught you.

Point me to one single peice of evidence that shows the American government knew about the atrocities being committed before we got involved (long before Pearl Harbor), and maybe your arguments will gain some credibility.

 

[spree]

First of all, i find it kinda funny how everyone seems to be spelling Armenian wrong. I am Armenian, and my great grandfather was able to escape the Armenian genocide. Just keep in mind that some estimates read that as much as 1/2 of the Armenian population was killed by the Turks during the Genocide. Personally I think the Genocide should be given more historical attention.

As for Hitler...don't get me wrong, I don't condone the mass murder of Jews or anyone else. But the man wasn't necessarily insane. Keep in mind the positives that came out of his regime - he took Germany out of the depression, made sure that Germans all had solid job...he basically revived Germany. Yes, he did sentence millions of Jews to their deaths. That doesn't necessarily make him more or less evil than other past and present leaders. The main difference between Hitler and other past leaders is that he pretty much killed more people. But where do you draw the line between a conqueror and an insane murderer?

BTW, for those of you who have relatives that have fought in WWII, I really admire and respect what our vets did. I know that I wouldn't have the balls to willingly go fight in such a war, even though I'd hate to live under Hitler.

Actually I learned something pretty interesting a couple of years ago...it turns out that my grandmother, who's French Armenian, was stopped in France during WWII cuz some German soldiers thought she was Jewish...she explained that she was Armenian, which Germans considered to be one of the lowest and more pathetic Aryan beings.

 

[1luckymf]

That crazy SOB still has influence on people 55 years after his death...When will it end or will it ever.

 

[chipbgt]

<< the american made a mistake starting a war with vietnamese and so they shall walk in shame.
american aint no perfect society they make mistake too
as you can see they done some bad thing as well >>



Hyper if you want to bash America and its policies and people why dont you start a thread about America instead of just turning all your meaningless posts into an eventual America-bash.

 

[reitz]

<< Yes, he did sentence millions of Jews to their deaths. That doesn't necessarily make him more or less evil than other past and present leaders. >>

What?!? I'm sorry, but I'm having a little trouble following your logic. Yes, he did help Germany out of the depression and revived it, only to have it completely destroyed during the course of the war. Just when my faith in our public school system starts to be renewed...

And yes, Hitler was insane. He had late-stage syphilis which causes a variety of mental disorders.

 

[spree]

all i'm saying is in my opinion, Hitler wasn't necessarily more evil than a Stalin or a Mao amongst many others.

And I really don't appreciate that crack about public schools. I happen to have attended a public high school and a private junior high school. Last I checked, I had the right to my own opinion.

Germany wasn't in ruins during the war. On the contrary, the German economy was booming due to war production. And I've never heard anything about Hitler having syphilis.

Oh and for the record, such extreme racism existed during the 30's and 40's and still exists today. It just happens that Hitler got a chance to put his racist philosphy into practice. And if I recall correctly, the US did deny entrance (prior to entering WWII) to roughly 900 young jewish kids who managed to get out of Germany. Most of those kids ended up being sent back to Germany, put into concentration camps, and killed.

 

[DABANSHEE]

Gez a lot of you have no idea what you're talking about.

First of all Hyper99 Hitler did not shoot his family one by one before he killed himself. By the time the war started he had no family. He also only got married hours before he killed himself. The closest to a family he had was his dog which he tested his suicide posion on, before He &amp; Eva swallowed their mouthfull each. That was Hitler's Propaganda Minister (kind of defeats the purpose of having a propanda minister if he's called the Propaganda minister), Goebbels who killed all his own daughters &amp; his wife before killing himself.

Second, even by today there have been no papers discovered that link Hitler to the death camps. Of course he knew about them but he was a politician, so of course he knew about plausable deniability just as Reagan (Iran/Contra), Bush (CIA supplying drugs while he was director) &amp; Clinton (turning the White house into a hotel for campaign dollars) always make sure they never give direct orders that can be linked back to them - everything is always spoken of in hypotheticals while winking at each other.

Now about Hitler having the families of all his officers killed, what a load of beloney. First of all millions of Germans were in uniform during the war, so thats a hell of a lot of families to kill. Bloody 'Bomber Harris' the boss of RAF's Bomber Command is probably responsable for more German Families dying than Hitler. Mind you he is indirectly responsable for millions of deaths. I think he you are referring to the attempt on Hitlers life by some of his officers, who the SS later executed by having them hung by piano wire. Even Rommel was suspect &amp; the SS threatened to send his family to a concentration camp if he didnt commit suicide. So he swallowed the poison capsule he was given &amp; it was announced he died of his war wounds (earlier on his staff car was straffed by a British Typhoon fighter bomber at Normandy) &amp; given a heros funeral.

BTW, Hitler did not intimidate his way into power - He &amp; his Nazis came second in the general election back in 1933. The Christian Democrates came first with nearly 35% of the votes, then the Nazis had nearly 25% of the vote, while both the Social Democrates &amp; the Communists got about 20% of the vote each. As no party got a outright majority the Christian Democrates chose the Nazis as a coalition partner &amp; formed a govt - the Wiemar Republic was a Cabinet style govt, where whoever had outright majority in Parliment (the Riechstag) formed a govt &amp; their leader became Chancellor, while the President's job (von Hindeburg) was mostly ceromonial - however just as in the UK where the Army holds allegience to the king, in Germany the Army held allegiance to the President, not the Reichstag.

Well anyway Hitlers condition on the Nazis becomeing a junior partner in Govt with the Christian Democrats was that he be made Chancellor, even though most of the ministers were to be Christian Democrates. The Christian democrates figured that that be ok, as all bills would have to voted through cabinet (where all the ministers met) then through the Reichstag where the Nazis had less than a quarter the vote. However the Riechstag mysteriouslly burnt down, so special temporary powers were given to the president, von Hindeburg, till Parliment could meet again. Then von Hindeburg died (he was very old) &amp; his special temporary powers were passed over to the Chancellor, Hitler, as Parliment could not meet to elect a new President as the Riechstag was still burnt down. So Hitler then got the Army to pass on their presidential allegence to him &amp; every German officer was made to swear a personal oath of allegence to Hitler. So now hitler cancelled all future elections till the emergency was over, which of course never happened &amp; he was dictator - they ended up blaming the communists for the burning of the riechstag &amp; used that as an excuse to throw 'em all into concentration camps. Even today no one really knows who burnt it down, but many can guess who may have ordered its burning.

BTW Reitz is absolutelly right THE US was giving Britain &amp; its allies massive help, even 18 mounths befor Pearl Harbour. Especially as far as the Atlantic war is concerned, which many beleive the Royal Navy may not had won without American help (actually they probably would have won, but it would have draged on for a lot longer without an end in site) - The Americans give Bitain 50 (or was it 100) mildy obsolete destoyers in exchange for some airbases in the Azores, which also helped the Bitish as it meant the Americans were patrolling the air arround the Azores which freed up RAF Coastal Command aircraft for other duties. Also we mustn't forget the many Liberty ships that were being produced in the North American shipyards that were being built to bring all the necessities of life across to Britain - the whole Liberty ship program started up even before the occupation of France, in the many shipyards of Canada &amp; the US. Then with Lend Lease the US gave the Commonwealth Airforces thousands of P40 Tommahawks &amp; Kittyhawks, of which a great percentage were used in North Africa against the Iltalians &amp; the Afrika Korps, which freed up more Supermarine Spitfires for use in the Battle of Britain. Also there were the many General Stuart light tanks, M3 Grant &amp; Lee tanks &amp; the later M4 Sherman tanks that complimented the British Valentine, Matilda &amp; Crusader tanks in the North African campaigns. Which helped to keep the Suez Canal in British hands. &amp; all of this started occuring way before Pearl Harbour.

 

[BoberFett]

Hitler is only evil because he lost.

History is written by the victor.

 

[chipbgt]

<< Hitler is only evil because he lost. >>



excuse me while I shoot milk out my nose.

 

[convex]

hitler knew how to pick people. He was an egomaniac, and that cost him the world. I can't see him as being worse than stalin or the roman-catholic church though.

 

[Jimbo]

DABANSHEE: Finally, someone who has picked up a history book, then read it and actually comprehended what they read.

Hyper99: You play fast and loose with the facts. When you don?t have facts you then make them up or regurgitate misinformation.

It is late; I am tired, I will pick this up tomorrow.

 

[HannibalX]

I'm not sue if this has been said, but in spite of him killing 6 million jews, his army killed 40 million Russian soldiers and civilians.

 

[Ulfwald]

Ok, so let's all face one thing. HITLER WAS AN EVIL MAN WHOSE INFLUENCE IS STILL FELT TODAY. He was just the beginning of a great cancer that we may have killed the root of, but it's syptoms still linger.

 

[chipbgt]

On a lesser note, the man could breakdance like it was nobody's business.

 

[Sacotool]

One testicle

 

[Tominator]

<< I'm not sue if this has been said, but in spite of him killing 6 million jews, his army killed 40 million Russian soldiers and civilians. >>



Hitler just wanted to kill more Russians than Stalin! He didn't beat him by much.

It was Hitler's hatred that proved his downfall. If he had not addressed the 'Jewish Problem,' and had treated them as every other German he would have had a couple million more troops available and freed up a huge amount of wasted resources.

Hitler made just a few mistakes in his conquest of Europe. I shudder to think what may have happened had he not made those mistakes...

He should have not tried to exterminate the jews.

He should have exterminated the British at Dunkirk. He could've but did not.

He should have never attacked the Russians.

DABANSHEE I'll only take issue with you stating that Britian could have beat Hitler without US help. It would just take longer.!!??
Bull! Without the US, sooner or later Britian was a good as beat!

 

[Tiger]

Good post DABANSHEE,

At the time of the beginning of the Holocaust, the US wasn't in a position either geograghically or militarily to do much about it. Our military had been gutted after WW I, you'd think we'd learn. The rest of Europe was in a much better position to know about the Holocaust and all they had were rumors.

Hitler was neither a military or political genious. He was an opportunist that took advantage of the dismal conditions in Germany caused by the Versaille treaty and the world wide depression. When a people are living from day to day not knowing where the next meal is coming from they will follow anybody who they think will fix things.

Hitler saw himself as some unrealized military genious. The truth is he made so many tactical and strategic mistakes you can't count them all. If he had left the running of the war to his generals the outcome may have been distinctly different. Mistake #1, and probably the most serious was invading Russia. Stalin would have been happy to sit on his hands for the duration if that hadn't happened. Mistake #2 was not invading England, he left a toehold intact which the allies used to their full advantage. If England had been overrun there possibly never would have been a liberation of Europe and the world would be a much different place.

 

[DABANSHEE]

Ah, I was referring to the Atlantic war there Tom, Which was mostly a Royal Navy thing. It was the main area of operations that Churchill feared loosing most, because he knew if Britain was cut off both its colonies &amp; North America by the U-boats, then Britain would have been at Hitlers mersy. Because of US &amp; Canadian help the British had more or less nulified the U-boat threat by Operation Torch (The Anglo-American landings at Morroco &amp; Algiers in Vichy French North Africa), even though the U-boats were still a threat till virtually the end of the war. Whereas it may have taken a couple of years longer for the Britsh/Canadians in the Royal Navy to have otherwise defeated the U-boats.

Really as far as the war in Europe is concerned we really have to thank the Russians for victory, as to every German fighting the western allies there were another 10 fighting the Russians. Many pundits beleive that without the Russians tying down so many German troops even victory at Normandy may have been in doubt. One could say that it was Hitler's Operation Barbarossa - the German invasion of Russia in June 1941 that won the war for Churchill. The day Hitler invaded Russia was the day he lost the war. However if Hitler had never invaded Russia then Britain may well have been beat without American help.

 

[CayJon]

satanic.........think about it.

 

[EmperorNero]

reitz,



<< Read up on the &quot;Lend-Lease Act&quot;, and you'll know that was not the case. >>



the US started giving aids under the act in 1941. here's an excerpt taken from Encarta:
&quot;When the Nazi regime came to power in Germany in January 1933, it immediately began to take systematic measures against the Jews.&quot;

The attrocities against the Jews started roughly 10 years before aids were given. and like the quote said, when nazis came to power, they &quot;immediately began to take systematic measures against the Jews.&quot; we had plenty of time to find out about those &quot;systematic measures&quot; and we finally started doing something about it 8 years afterwards. and by the word attrocities, I don't mean only the holocaust, it also includes Kristallnacht, the driving of the jews out of their homes, etc. secondly, you seem to interpret my posts as saying that the US never got involved. to keep you from twisting my words around, what I meant is that the US did know about it, but didn't do anything at first - that does NOT mean &quot;the US didn't do anything at all.&quot; like I've said before, the reason I got into this argument was because some ppl flamed at that one post who US not doing anything, which was indeed very true.

debanshee



<< BTW, Hitler did not intimidate his way into power - He &amp; his Nazis came second in the general election back in 1933 >>



that is only the half-truth. hitler rigged the elections. go grab some few in-depth documentary videos and you'll see.

 

[reitz]

EmperorNero, and just what were these &quot;systematic measures&quot;? The first mass action taken against the Jews was Krisallnacht, named for the sound of breaking glass as thousands of Jewish stores were attacked and looted. According to the Chronicle of 20th Century Conflict, this happened on November 9, 1938.

The argument is not about when these atrocities first began, it is about when the allied leaders first knew about them. The first documented report on the atrocities in Nazi concentration camps was issued by the British government on October 30, 1939. At the time, nothing was known about mass murders and gas chambers; the report was about mistreatment, malnutrition, and rumors of some excecutions. I don't mean to sound cold-hearted, but it was hardly enough information for a country that was geographically isolated, and not a world power to commit millions of troops to battle. Again, I ask you to provide evidence that American and Allied leaders knew about the genocide before any of these countries got involved.



<< actually, in the beginning, the US did indeed do nothing. it was w/ pearl harbor that the US started increasing their involvment >>

http://www.nelson.com/nelson/school/discovery/cantext/wwii/1941usle.htm The Lend-Lease Act was ennacted on March 11, 1941. Pearl Harbor was bombed on December 7, 1941. Prior to that (November 4, 1939), the U.S. Neutrality Act allowed Great Britain and France to buy US war materials, only one month and one day after those countries declared war. On July 24, 1940, the United States agreed to supply Britain with hundreds of new aircraft.

Beware of PC and revisionist history. Anyone can write a book or article and leave out key information to put a different spin on things, but you can't argue with documented dates of when events happened. I don't mean to put you down, but it seems like you need to seriously question the information you were taught in that class.

spree,

<< Germany wasn't in ruins during the war. On the contrary, the German economy was booming due to war production. >>

That's nice, but at what cost? (These are low estimates) 3.3 million German soldiers, and 1 million German civilians were killed. The relative prosperity enjoyed by Germany during the beginning years of the war is a non-issue when you take into account that it lost 4.3 million citizens and was completely destroyed at the end of the war. Entire towns were completely levelled, and wiped off the map.

And yes, I will knock public education if it teaches you that Hitler did great things for Germany, without explaining the horrible consequences of it.

(edited to correct spelling)