ACLU sues on behalf of Protestors

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tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
12,436
1
0
Originally posted by: Fencer128
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: Genesys
i hate the aclu and want them to "dissappear"
Every American should join the ACLU. It guards the Constitution from totalitarianism.
Apart from the fact that is doesn't "guard" *all* of the constitution. Ammendment 2 for example. It has it's merits. Defense of separation of church and state for example. Freedom of speech another. But there are reasons why one would support these aims but not support the ACLU.

Cheers,

Andy
Could you please point me to where the constitution demands a seperation of church and state?
 

Kipper

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2000
7,366
0
0
Originally posted by: tm37
Originally posted by: Fencer128
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: Genesys
i hate the aclu and want them to "dissappear"
Every American should join the ACLU. It guards the Constitution from totalitarianism.
Apart from the fact that is doesn't "guard" *all* of the constitution. Ammendment 2 for example. It has it's merits. Defense of separation of church and state for example. Freedom of speech another. But there are reasons why one would support these aims but not support the ACLU.

Cheers,

Andy
Could you please point me to where the constitution demands a seperation of church and state?
1st Amendment of the US Constitution...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Whether you see it as "demands" or not depends on which side of the argument you fall upon, but the bulk of legal scholars and Supreme Court decisions (which have to do exclusively with constitutional interpretation) have translated it to mean that there is a wall separating the Church and the State. Obviously, practice is a completely different thing.

The problem occurs when self-righteous religious people feel they need laws enacted to represent their interests, at the cost of others'. The separation of Church and State is one of the most valuable tenets of the constitution and should be defended at all costs if we are to preserve the diversity in the marketplace of ideas. If religious people really feel they need the assistance of the state to reinforce and support their belief through legislation, what does that say about the strength of the faith? I think it dose nothing but show its weakness...
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
0
0
Originally posted by: MadCowDisease
Originally posted by: tm37
Originally posted by: Fencer128
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: Genesys
i hate the aclu and want them to "dissappear"
Every American should join the ACLU. It guards the Constitution from totalitarianism.
Apart from the fact that is doesn't "guard" *all* of the constitution. Ammendment 2 for example. It has it's merits. Defense of separation of church and state for example. Freedom of speech another. But there are reasons why one would support these aims but not support the ACLU.

Cheers,

Andy
Could you please point me to where the constitution demands a seperation of church and state?
1st Amendment of the US Constitution...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Whether you see it as "demands" or not depends on which side of the argument you fall upon, but the bulk of legal scholars and Supreme Court decisions (which have to do exclusively with constitutional interpretation) have translated it to mean that there is a wall separating the Church and the State. Obviously, practice is a completely different thing.

The problem occurs when self-righteous religious people feel they need laws enacted to represent their interests, at the cost of others'. The separation of Church and State is one of the most valuable tenets of the constitution and should be defended at all costs if we are to preserve the diversity in the marketplace of ideas. If religious people really feel they need the assistance of the state to reinforce and support their belief through legislation, what does that say about the strength of the faith? I think it dose nothing but show its weakness...
but please do remember that putting a ten commandments plaque or statue or monmument in a courthouse is NOT forcing you to believe in Christianity. It is the judge asserting his belief in Christianity.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
thats the part you have to keep your eye on, not the fact that some govt official is a Chtistian and decides to make some sort of display out of it.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: Hecubus2000
Thats funny. Where was the ACLU when the Clinton Admin. was doing this on a daily basis. I'm not a huge fan of Bush, but I'm starting to get over all these trendy anti Bush people blowing every little thing out of proportion. If he is such a bad Pres. then quit whining like a bunch of little babies and vote him out in 2004.
What are you talking about?
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: Genesys
i hate the aclu and want them to "dissappear"
Every American should join the ACLU. It guards the Constitution from totalitarianism.
oh yes, by making wild statements and filing bogus law suits to strip people from practising their religion freely as it says in the constitution. the ACLU also perpetuates racism [from everything ive seen anyway], the support NAMBLA [or at least defend them!] and im sure theres more BAD the ACLU has done and more bad the ACLU stands for, but im just to tired to go and look it up right now, ill do that later tonite.
I am still waiting for all the evil the ACLU did.

The core of the Bill of Rights is we all have the same rights. There is no need to protect popular speech and popular groups. The ACLU defends the unpopular. If we disregard the rights of one, all become vulnerable. The ACLU tries to stop every attempt to cross that line even when they have to defend scum. This protects all our rights.
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
1
91
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: MadCowDisease
Originally posted by: tm37
Originally posted by: Fencer128
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: Genesys
i hate the aclu and want them to "dissappear"
Every American should join the ACLU. It guards the Constitution from totalitarianism.
Apart from the fact that is doesn't "guard" *all* of the constitution. Ammendment 2 for example. It has it's merits. Defense of separation of church and state for example. Freedom of speech another. But there are reasons why one would support these aims but not support the ACLU.

Cheers,

Andy
Could you please point me to where the constitution demands a seperation of church and state?
1st Amendment of the US Constitution...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Whether you see it as "demands" or not depends on which side of the argument you fall upon, but the bulk of legal scholars and Supreme Court decisions (which have to do exclusively with constitutional interpretation) have translated it to mean that there is a wall separating the Church and the State. Obviously, practice is a completely different thing.

The problem occurs when self-righteous religious people feel they need laws enacted to represent their interests, at the cost of others'. The separation of Church and State is one of the most valuable tenets of the constitution and should be defended at all costs if we are to preserve the diversity in the marketplace of ideas. If religious people really feel they need the assistance of the state to reinforce and support their belief through legislation, what does that say about the strength of the faith? I think it dose nothing but show its weakness...
but please do remember that putting a ten commandments plaque or statue or monmument in a courthouse is NOT forcing you to believe in Christianity. It is the judge asserting his belief in Christianity.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
thats the part you have to keep your eye on, not the fact that some govt official is a Chtistian and decides to make some sort of display out of it.
Well, if you take that arguement through then the courthouse becomes a public forum, anyone including the Klan can display there, etc. etc. OR we can just get with it and not put up religious symbology/monuments/etc in public buildings.

Andy
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
1
91
Oh just let them win. The Country declared Godless, close down all Churches so the Govt can get all that untaxed prime Real Estate for things they can Tax.
The country declared Godless. Close down all churches. I don't support that. Now, the government declared Godless (whatever that means exactly) sounds much more like it.

That isn't the arguement so let's not make it so. The arguement is about the state showing support for religion in public buildings.

Cheers,

Andy

 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,475
0
0
If a judge asserts that his courthouse is NOT ruled by the laws of the US government, but by the laws of his religion, then he is CLEARLY indicating that if you do not follow his religion, you WILL BE JUDGED GUILTY. Is this the kind of judiciary we want? Do we really want an American Inqusition?

The same applies to the legislative and executive branches.
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
0
0
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: Genesys
i hate the aclu and want them to "dissappear"
Every American should join the ACLU. It guards the Constitution from totalitarianism.
oh yes, by making wild statements and filing bogus law suits to strip people from practising their religion freely as it says in the constitution. the ACLU also perpetuates racism [from everything ive seen anyway], the support NAMBLA [or at least defend them!] and im sure theres more BAD the ACLU has done and more bad the ACLU stands for, but im just to tired to go and look it up right now, ill do that later tonite.
I am still waiting for all the evil the ACLU did.

The core of the Bill of Rights is we all have the same rights. There is no need to protect popular speech and popular groups. The ACLU defends the unpopular. If we disregard the rights of one, all become vulnerable. The ACLU tries to stop every attempt to cross that line even when they have to defend scum. This protects all our rights.
i dont remember a constitutional right to molest children! i dont remeber a constitutional right to have religious freedom stripped away!
 

Gravity

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2003
5,685
0
0
Every American should join the ACLU. It guards the Constitution from totalitarianism.
Um, nope. But their speech is protected otherwise they would get their eyes beat shut!

 

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