ACLU Reports 21 Homicides in U.S. Custody

[wirelessenabled]

ACLU has done a study of US military detainee deaths and has concluded that at least 21 of the 44 deaths were homocides.

A military spokesman's response was "Past cases have been fully investigated. When there is credible evidence, commanders have the prerogative to prosecute."

What is this "prerogative to prosocute"? Left up to the whim of the unit commander we all know how many investigations and prosecutions there would be.

The Pentagon needs to establish better standards than this. Make sure your Senator knows how you feel about the detainees treatment bill.

 

[Genx87]

ACLU is now an investigative branch of the military?

They sure get around lmao.

 

[MadRat]

You should be ashamed to attach "lmao" concerning such an important subject. If the homicides are murder or torture related then justice needs to be served.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: MadRat
You should be ashamed to attach "lmao" concerning such an important subject. If the homicides are murder or torture related then justice needs to be served.

I am laughing at the ACLU, the military is and has been sending people to jail for these actions.

ACLU is now just another mouthpiece for the left.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

IIRC DoD's own investigators made a similar finding. In one case, American soldiers actually killed the head of the Iraqi Air Force, a four-star general equivalent, with blunt force trauma to the chest.

As for the issue of commander's discretion, the military justice system vests essentially total authority on how to handle cases with the affected commander. To the extent the servicing JAGs feel the commander is unreasonable in his approach to a particular case, they can go over his head to the next-level commander, but this is highly unusual and obviously costs them significant goodwill with him, not a good thing since he also acts as their rater.

EDIT: Here we go:

WASHINGTON -- The Army has concluded that 27 of the detainees who died in US custody in Iraq or Afghanistan since 2002 were the victims of homicide or suspected homicide, military officials said in a report released yesterday.

The number is higher than Pentagon officials have previously acknowledged, and it indicates that criminal acts caused a significant portion of the dozens of prisoner deaths that occurred in US custody.

Thus far, the Army has found sufficient evidence to support charges against 21 soldiers in 11 cases on offenses that include murder, negligent homicide, and assault, according to the report released yesterday by the Army Criminal Investigation Command.

. . .

Is this funny to you, GenX?

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: MadRat
You should be ashamed to attach "lmao" concerning such an important subject. If the homicides are murder or torture related then justice needs to be served.

Agree 100% but I'd hardly consider any "findings" by the ACLU to be credible.

 

[tommywishbone]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: MadRat
You should be ashamed to attach "lmao" concerning such an important subject. If the homicides are murder or torture related then justice needs to be served.

Agree 100% but I'd hardly consider any "findings" by the ACLU to be credible.

For a change we agree; I'm sure the real number of prisoners we tortured & killed is much much higher.

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: DonVito
IIRC DoD's own investigators made a similar finding. In one case, American soldiers actually killed the head of the Iraqi Air Force, a four-star general equivalent, with blunt force trauma to the chest.

As for the issue of commander's discretion, the military justice system vests essentially total authority on how to handle cases with the affected commander. To the extent the servicing JAGs feel the commander is unreasonable in his approach to a particular case, they can go over his head to the next-level commander, but this is highly unusual and obviously costs them significant goodwill with him, not a good thing since he also acts as their rater.

EDIT: Here we go:

WASHINGTON -- The Army has concluded that 27 of the detainees who died in US custody in Iraq or Afghanistan since 2002 were the victims of homicide or suspected homicide, military officials said in a report released yesterday.

The number is higher than Pentagon officials have previously acknowledged, and it indicates that criminal acts caused a significant portion of the dozens of prisoner deaths that occurred in US custody.

Thus far, the Army has found sufficient evidence to support charges against 21 soldiers in 11 cases on offenses that include murder, negligent homicide, and assault, according to the report released yesterday by the Army Criminal Investigation Command.

. . .

Is this funny to you, GenX?

The ACLU used the FIA to get the military's records on the deaths. After the ACLU published suddenly the military comes out with their own report substantially verifying what the ACLU stated. Coincidence? I doubt it, the military would have continued to keep this under wraps without a push from somebody. Kind of like having police depts investigate complaints against officers in house. It just doesn't work.

For the commanding officer to have the final say on acts that occur between and among the people in their command makes some sense. Unfortunately it makes no sense whatsoever for the same commanding office to have jurisdiction over what people under his/her command do to civilians.

Some of these crimes are 3 years old. Where are the charges?

In the only one I have heard about three soldiers who killed a prisoner with blunt trauma in Afghanistan received a letter of reprimand and a dishonorable discharge. For murder? Seems pretty light punishment to me. That's the problem with letting the commander decide ... what is decided about them reflects on the commander as well and affects their rating.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: MadRat
You should be ashamed to attach "lmao" concerning such an important subject. If the homicides are murder or torture related then justice needs to be served.

Agree 100% but I'd hardly consider any "findings" by the ACLU to be credible.

What's the difference, if they track perfectly with CID's own findings?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

The ACLU used the FIA to get the military's records on the deaths. After the ACLU published suddenly the military comes out with their own report substantially verifying what the ACLU stated. Coincidence? I doubt it, the military would have continued to keep this under wraps without a push from somebody. Kind of like having police depts investigate complaints against officers in house. It just doesn't work.

For the commanding officer to have the final say on acts that occur between and among the people in their command makes some sense. Unfortunately it makes no sense whatsoever for the same commanding office to have jurisdiction over what people under his/her command do to civilians.

Some of these crimes are 3 years old. Where are the charges?

In the only one I have heard about three soldiers who killed a prisoner with blunt trauma in Afghanistan received a letter of reprimand and a dishonorable discharge. For murder? Seems pretty light punishment to me. That's the problem with letting the commander decide ... what is decided about them reflects on the commander as well and affects their rating.

I gather you didn't look at the article I linked - Army CID published its own findings months ago.

A number of GIs have been prosecuted for murder of detainees, though I share your frustration with the slow pace of the prosecutions. I gather that in a large percentage of these cases, the Army couldn't identify a particular suspect with sufficient certainty to prosecute.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: Genx87
ACLU is now just another mouthpiece for the left.

Incorrect, they are the mouthpiece of the people. It is their job to question the action of the government, be it Republican or Democrat.

Just because 'The Left' is currently using their findings of wrongful action by the current government(Or in this case military) doesn't suddenly make them the mouthpiece of 'The Left'.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: MadRat

ACLU is now just another mouthpiece for the left.

damn that using the Freedom of Information act to retrive and publish army documents. It's all librull propaganda!!

 

[ntdz]

Those poor terrorists, I'm so glad the ACLU is fighting for them, because we all know the terrorists would treat our soldiers well. Cry me a fvcking river.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Those poor terrorists, I'm so glad the ACLU is fighting for them, because we all know the terrorists would treat our soldiers well.

These radical lawyers must do something to occupy themselves with. Im sure many in the ACLU despise our military and this country in general, but the ACLU is one of the things that keeps America "balanced". We need the ACLU to protect this country. They are one of our defenses even though they side with the enemy in many cases!

 

[dahunan]

Please tell us how many "prisoners" actually committed a crime and WHY THE FVCK DID WE RELEASE 90% OF THE CITIZENS WE LOCKED UP AND TORTURED IN ABU-GHRAIB...

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: ntdz
Those poor terrorists, I'm so glad the ACLU is fighting for them, because we all know the terrorists would treat our soldiers well.

These radical lawyers must do something to occupy themselves with. Im sure many in the ACLU despise our military and this country in general, but the ACLU is one of the things that keeps America "balanced". We need the ACLU to protect this country. They are one of our defenses even though they side with the enemy in many cases!

One day America may be invaded and the invaders will go house to house and abduct people like they do in Iraq and then take them in for "questioning" .. while questioning them they decide to rough up us dumb americans and then they decide we know more than we are willing to say so they choose to try torture and they shove a big black batton up our asses and they smear feces on us and then they beat us to death...

Later they find out we did not know anything at all.. oh well.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: MadRat
You should be ashamed to attach "lmao" concerning such an important subject. If the homicides are murder or torture related then justice needs to be served.

Agree 100% but I'd hardly consider any "findings" by the ACLU to be credible.

The ACLU are not secretive about their methods. They describe how they came to their conclusions. Dismissing their findings because you don't trust them is sheer intellectual laziness. On what grounds is this report unlikely to be accurate or true? Do you even know? Can you even offer an answer to that question? Have the decency and honesty to read their report, before you make such silly, dismissive statements.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Those poor terrorists, I'm so glad the ACLU is fighting for them, because we all know the terrorists would treat our soldiers well. Cry me a fvcking river.

Yeah, it's as bad as the Red Cross being concerned that Saddam isn't getting 3 squares a day and a good shave. Makes you wonder, that's for sure.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
The ACLU are not secretive about their methods. They describe how they came to their conclusions. Dismissing their findings because you don't trust them is sheer intellectual laziness. On what grounds is this report unlikely to be accurate or true? Do you even know? Can you even offer an answer to that question? Have the decency and honesty to read their report, before you make such silly, dismissive statements.

Ah, OK. I can't dismiss ACLU "findings" because of their pathetic and quite obvious left-wing liberal bias? Seems at least half the people here discredit postings on account of the source when it happens to be a "right-wing" one. If you want to use the Military findings, OK, but don't come in with ACLU crap.

And, if anyone doubts ACLU's leaning, take a look at the cases they've been involved with in the past year alone.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Ah, OK. I can't dismiss ACLU "findings" because of their pathetic and quite obvious left-wing liberal bias? Seems at least half the people here discredit postings on account of the source when it happens to be a "right-wing" one. If you want to use the Military findings, OK, but don't come in with ACLU crap.

And, if anyone doubts ACLU's leaning, take a look at the cases they've been involved with in the past year alone.

It's not as though the ACLU conducted an independent investigation - they're just republishing CID's own findings, which they got through a FOIA request. I gather you just don't feel comfortable with the fact that our troops have murdered 27 detainees. I don't either, but that doesn't change the fact that it apparently happened. Impugning the ACLU has exactly nothing to do with acknowledging the underlying realities of the situation.

This begs the question, do you think it's acceptable that US troops allegedly beat the head of the Iraqi Air Force (the equivalent of our Air Force Chief of Staff) to death? Is that OK in your world?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Yeah, it's as bad as the Red Cross being concerned that Saddam isn't getting 3 squares a day and a good shave. Makes you wonder, that's for sure.

What does it make you wonder? The Geneva Conventions were drafted with direct participation by ICRC, and one of their most important functions is ensuring that detainees and EPWs are treated humanely. You're implying a political agenda that doesn't exist. They'd be doing the same thing if there were American EPWs being held in a foreign country.

 

[wirelessenabled]

What does it make you wonder? The Geneva Conventions were drafted with direct participation by ICRC, and one of their most important functions is ensuring that detainees and EPWs are treated humanely. You're implying a political agenda that doesn't exist. They'd be doing the same thing if there were American EPWs being held in a foreign country.

+1 for Don Vito Corleone

What is it about the ACLU that the drives the so-called Conservatives crazy?

To my way of thinking the ACLU seems to stand up for the Constitution without regard to which of the parties are in power.

They drive me crazy sometimes but then I look at what they are representing and from a Constitutional standpoint they are invariably correct, even if I don't agree.

 

[davmat787]

+1 for Don Vito Corleone

What is it about the ACLU that the drives the so-called Conservatives crazy?

To my way of thinking the ACLU seems to stand up for the Constitution without regard to which of the parties are in power.

They drive me crazy sometimes but then I look at what they are representing and from a Constitutional standpoint they are invariably correct, even if I don't agree.

Are you saying you are a so-called conservative since the ACLU drives you crazy sometimes? Also, what is up with you necroing all your own threads from the previous decade?

 

[thraashman]

Dude. Why the hell is did you resurrect a thread from 6½ years ago?

 

[Craig234]

Have you donated to the ACLU lately? They deserve it.