achieving clarity : 7970 vs 670/680

[The Alias]

this is to settle all the debates about which is the better value performance wise and after ovoerclocking since this is an enthusiast's forum about enthusiast grade products . Naturally as such, I ask that you refrain from mentioning reference models from AMD because quite honestly it's stupid to buy one .

Like I said earlier, this is to settle all the page long debates about which is better and settle it once and for all .

 

[SolMiester]

For me, its the quietest one....period!..I wonder if a process maturity will allow NV to release a B version of the 680 as AMD has?

 

[The Alias]

For me, its the quietest one....period!..I wonder if a process maturity will allow NV to release a B version of the 680 as AMD has?

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...gtx-680-phantom-review-power-temps-noise.html
the pcs+ 7970 is hard to beat in terms of quiet operation

 

[KingFatty]

Maybe the answer lies it agreeing how much weight to assign to each factor of the video card? How much to value raw performance in what games/benchmarks, vs. power consumption, vs. quality of the cooler and its noise, etc.

If you don't care about noise and are fine with a cheaply made cooler, your "best" card will be different than someone who cares about those factors and is not so impressed with max benchmarks.

Also need to agree on what set of benchmarks to use, whether you include PhysX or Bitcoin mining, etc.

In other words, this is futile and may as well ask to settle once and for all what is the best ice cream flavor, color, car, and supermodel.

 

[blastingcap]

There is no "best." Best what, power draw, performance, price/perf (but prices change...), etc. Then you have to get into things like 3GB VRAM vs 2GB VRAM (or 4 or 6), CUDA/PhysX, etc.

In short, this thread is of dubious value and looks like it's designed to try to start a flame war or something.

In before the lock.

 

[BD231]

Well ... with the GTX series you can pretty well make up any lead AMD has via oc and do so at a lower power draw which equates to lower temps making the card easier to cool for the crap coolers that come on most any card you can buy.

If you want efficiency you go with the 670/680. The better question is if the slight performance margin between the two is worth all the extra power you suck up via 3gb's vram and hungrier core of the 7970.

 

[hokies83]

Hmm i got 4gb Vram on my 680s

 

[BD231]

Hmm i got 4gb Vram on my 680s

I'll take 2 cards into consideration when the question is posed, why else would u need 4gb's of vram right?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

if you're going to go all out with overclocking it can be a toss up, although it will likely be easier and less expensive to do so with a 7900

that being said, you should also consider which games you're most interested in as each side can have pretty big advantages in certain games - for instance I stuck with nVidia because the game I primarily play (Tribes:Ascend) has a HUGE advantage with nVidia to where just one of my GTX580s was heads and tails faster than a single 7970 and then eventually did the "downgrade" from SLI 580s to a single 680 as soon as it became available (I say "downgrade" because the disadvantages of SLI made me feel like it was more of an upgrade even though raw performance went down).

 

[biostud]

The 7950 is probably the best value for money atm, if you only look at gaming performance. But as already posted you'll also need to consider all the other features the different brands offer.

 

[Bull Dog]

There is no "best." Best what, power draw, performance, price/perf (but prices change...), etc. Then you have to get into things like 3GB VRAM vs 2GB VRAM (or 4 or 6), CUDA/PhysX, etc.

In short, this thread is of dubious value and looks like it's designed to try to start a flame war or something.

In before the lock.

This.

Currently there is no BEST holy grail end-all card. AMD wins some, NVIDIA wins some, AMD wins some more. 7970 guzzles more power, 680 is comparatively frugal. AMD has very competitive pricing now. NVIDIA has their proprietary CUDA stuff.

There is no "best" card, there is only the best card for you; which is dependent on your specific needs and preferences.

 

[3DVagabond]

Well ... with the GTX series you can pretty well make up any lead AMD has via oc and do so at a lower power draw which equates to lower temps making the card easier to cool for the crap coolers that come on most any card you can buy.

If you want efficiency you go with the 670/680. The better question is if the slight performance margin between the two is worth all the extra power you suck up via 3gb's vram and hungrier core of the 7970.

Both companies make quiet cards with coolers that keep temps under control. The extra power Tahiti uses isn't caused by an extra gig of VRAM. It's the extra transistors in the core (4.3B Tahiti vs. 3.5B GK104). RAM uses very little power. Look at the power draw difference between 1 and 2 gig cards.

You left out one important metric, price. While with both O/C'd (670 vs. 7950, 680 vs. 7970) there's very little overall gaming performance difference it still costs more for that same performance from nVidia. I'll leave the performance comparison at gaming only. Since, fair or not, that's likely all that most here are interested in.

 

[The Alias]

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/43109-evga-geforce-gtx-680-classified-4gb/
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/radeon-hd-7970-ghz-edition.html
couple reviews pitting them against eachother

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

this is to settle all the debates about which is the better value performance wise and after ovoerclocking since this is an enthusiast's forum about enthusiast grade products . Naturally as such, I ask that you refrain from mentioning reference models from AMD because quite honestly it's stupid to buy one .

Like I said earlier, this is to settle all the page long debates about which is better and settle it once and for all .

Obviously the HD 7950 and 7970 are the best values for Enthusiast-tier cards right now. Both overclocked, the HD 7950 is comparable to slightly faster than the GTX 670. Overclocked, the HD 7970 is comparable to faster than an overclocked GTX 680. Of course, this is taking into account a 1920 resolution. If you're gonna be running at 2560, then AMD wins hands down.

Cards with reference cards are obviously not good buys, but that doesn't really matter because you can get good cards with third-party heatsinks and coolers for the same price. The Sapphire Dual-X Radeon HD 7950 costs $300 and the HD 7970 model with the same cooler costs $400. And obviously Sapphire is to AMD what EVGA is to NVIDIA, so you're going with a good sub-vendor.

You can also get the MSI Radeon HD 7950 TwinFrozr III for $330, and that card has further enhanced overclocking because it uses an HD 7970 PCB.

AMD has better cards right now at all price points. For $110-120 you get the HD 7770, which beats up badly on the "GTX" 650. For $190-200 you can get the HD 7850, which OC vs. OC is comparable to faster than the GTX 660. For $250 you can get the HD 7870, which convincingly beats the $230 GTX 660 and OC vs. OC matches the GTX 660 Ti. Then at $300 you have the HD 7950 which demolishes the similarly-priced GTX 660 Ti when both are overclocked and will only get faster as games require more memory bandwidth. It's gain is extended by an even larger margin if AA or 2560x1440 is taken into account. Of course, it should go without saying that if you overclock, for $300 you're getting the same performance as an overclocked GTX 670, or a slightly overclocked GTX 680. And at $400, obviously the HD 7970 is comparable to faster than the $500 GTX 680 when you OC both.

Even though AMD's CPUs right now are crap, their GPUs and prices are very reasonable. I will most probably be buying an HD 7950.

 

[notty22]

Naturally as such, I ask that you refrain from mentioning reference models from AMD because quite honestly it's stupid to buy one .

So the early adopters of AMD reference model's, which are usually all that's available at launch, made stupid purchases. /LOL

By the way, same goes for Nvidia at launch. Mostly all (reference), especially the top tier card.

Are we to refrain from mentioning launch pricing/ price adjustments or would it be better to base all pricing discussions on one time hot deals as de facto model pricing?

In effect you want a debate, with your own pre-defined rules.

In short, this thread is of dubious value and looks like it's designed to try to start a flame war or something.

In before the lock.

Agreed.

 

[f1sherman]

this is to settle all the debates

This is highly presumptuous.

Why making an OP that implies that your thread is more valuable/more clear, than all other threads and everything that's been already said on this topic in this forum?

about which is the better value performance wise and after ovoerclocking since this is an enthusiast's forum about enthusiast grade products . Naturally as such, I ask that you refrain from mentioning reference models from AMD.

that's a start, but there is nothing natural about it.

 

[The Alias]

This is highly presumptuous.

Why making an OP that implies that your thread is more valuable/more clear, than all other threads and everything that's been already said on this topic in this forum?
.

to be honest I don't know why I thought it'd be successful, but I thought it'd stop so many blasted threads being derailed if we all came to one harmonious conclusion .

 

[Elfear]

to be honest I don't know why I thought it'd be successful, but I thought it'd stop so many blasted threads being derailed if we all came to one harmonious conclusion .

Maybe you should start a thread about politics and religion too. :whiste:

 

[blastingcap]

Maybe you should start a thread about politics and religion too. :whiste:

To some people, GPUs *are* religion.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Why is buying the reference model 7970 stupid? It allows overclocking, voltage control, and exhausts all of the heat produced out of the case. What makes buying that card a stupid decision?

 

[t-master]

The better question is if the slight performance margin between the two is worth all the extra power you suck up via 3gb's vram and hungrier core of the 7970.

Well for me it's more like if the slight performance margin with some games and the lower power draw really worth the higher price of NV cards?
And after a week of studying benchmarks and reviews I still have no answer :/

 

[The Alias]

Why is buying the reference model 7970 stupid? It allows overclocking, voltage control, and exhausts all of the heat produced out of the case. What makes buying that card a stupid decision?

because they're hot and really really loud

 

[SlowSpyder]

because they're hot and really really loud

I don't have any problems with temps, but I'll give you the loud part (not even so much loud as I would say the change in pitch makes you hear it. During gaming I don't actually notice it, it is the blower spinning up or down that I do notice when I start or stop a game... easily notice, unfortunately).

Have you seen the 670's reference PCB? Everything is a tradeoff. Depending on what your definition of an enthusiast part is, I could see how someone would feel that it is way to 'lite'.

Like others have said, I don't think you'll ever get a once size fits all answer.

 

[SirPauly]

Well for me it's more like if the slight performance margin with some games and the lower power draw really worth the higher price of NV cards?
And after a week of studying benchmarks and reviews I still have no answer :/

That's the key to me; it's subjective based on needs or desires. There is no clarity for all but there is tremendous choice to consider for all.

 

[blastingcap]

because they're hot and really really loud

Do you have any experience with them? No? Please don't spread misinformation.

I have operated seven different 7xxx cards, including a pair of 7970s and a pair of 7950s. I speak from experience:

At stock they are very quiet, and even with moderate overclock they are still fairly quiet. Only when fan speed is over 50% does it start getting loud. Once it gets over 60% it's too loud for me. But that would typically only happen if you overvolted/oc'd pretty high. Ref cards are also better-built than some aftermarket cards like the XFX Double D which is known to have worse cooling:

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/853...950-asus-his-msi-powercolor-sapphire-xfx.html

In addition, ref cards can be significantly cheaper and are also better-compatible with some aftermarket cooling solutions including water cooling.

Lastly, blower style fans throw air out the back better than the "spray all over the place" axial fans found in most aftermarket coolers. This is important for those with poor case cooling or who are running CrossfireX with closely-spaced cards.

So yeah, if you plan to overvolt/oc high, don't plan to Crossfire, and have good case cooling, and the price premium isn't TOO much over the reference card, you probably want something like an Asus DCII or MSI Lightning or Sapphire Dual-X or something like that. Otherwise, it's not so black and white.

Stop spreading FUD. Thank you.