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Accupuncture, placebo or solid medicine

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Thread title

  • Placebo

  • Really works

  • Dunno/Other

Results are only viewable after voting.
Kadarin said:
If alternative medicine actually worked, it would just be called "medicine".
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There is myriad evidence that alternative medicine works, it's just not mainstream because everything about the mainstream medical establishment, from who funds the research/education, to who influences the regulatory agencies, is determined by financial power, political clout, and large corporate interests.
 
SMOGZINN said:
Would you really go to a doctor that says, "here is a red pill, most of the time it stops people from having pain, but I don't really know why, but maybe if you take the pill it will help you too." Of course not, you would ask what was in the pill.
We don't know what is in this pill.
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uh, that's pretty much like much of modern medicine and how drug development comes about, anyway.
 
SMOGZINN said:
No, it's not.
Doctors know what the medicine does, they just are not sure you have what it cures.
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depends on what you mean. they might know the compounds, but few people, including those who design the meds know exactly how it works.

that's the reality of biochem
 
tcG said:
There is myriad evidence that alternative medicine works, it's just not mainstream because everything about the mainstream medical establishment, from who funds the research/education, to who influences the regulatory agencies, is determined by financial power, political clout, and large corporate interests.
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Oh FFS

🙄
 
tcG said:
There is myriad evidence that alternative medicine works, it's just not mainstream because everything about the mainstream medical establishment, from who funds the research/education, to who influences the regulatory agencies, is determined by financial power, political clout, and large corporate interests.
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Why do large corporate interests lose big bucks when the new drug doesn't get approved? Why aren't they batting a thousand?
 
Obviously, if you look at the data, it works (at least for some of the maladies it was used for), and isn't simply a placebo effect. The mechanism by which it works isn't fully understood.
 
It worked for me. I combined Acupuncture and chiropractic visits at a point where I could almost not walk (I have 2 ruptured disks in my lower back) and in 2 months I was able to compete in a national TaeKwon-Do tournament (2006, Las Vegas.)

I think Acupuncture is a form of reflexology... getting your body to respond to a specific stimuli. I also think it works on some people, and not on others.
 
Charlie98 said:
It worked for me. I combined Acupuncture and chiropractic visits at a point where I could almost not walk (I have 2 ruptured disks in my lower back) and in 2 months I was able to compete in a national TaeKwon-Do tournament (2006, Las Vegas.)

I think Acupuncture is a form of reflexology... getting your body to respond to a specific stimuli. I also think it works on some people, and not on others.
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reflexology is quackery beyond quackery
 
DrPizza said:
Obviously, if you look at the data, it works (at least for some of the maladies it was used for), and isn't simply a placebo effect. The mechanism by which it works isn't fully understood.
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I think it's interesting how many studies say this about drugs. The study will say something like this:
1 - we know drug does X
2 - we gave the drug to a mouse with that gene removed
3 - the drug still works somehow
4 - further research is required to understand why it still works

Me and my friend were googling around for cures to a certain type of pain she has and lots of studies say things like that. This random treatment works and we don't know why.
 
lxskllr said:
And if it works, it works. Joe Holistic doesn't give a shit about the reason his back stops hurting when he goes to the acupuncturist. Telling him the needles attract invisible tiny unicorns that prance on his back, and exude pain reducing pixie dust from their hooves is as good a reason as any. The reasons behind it are for the scientists, and don't matter to the person getting the work done. So no, the hypothesis doesn't matter outside of furthering our knowledge.
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Except that inserting needles into people carries the risk of infection, transmission of diseases, nerve damage and damage to organs.

Some studies have shown that simulated acupuncture, using toothpicks in needle guides to simulate the needle points, are just as effective as real acupuncture.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19433697

I find it unethical to subject patients to procedures that cause increased risk without a good benefit.
 
It occurs to me that the placebo effect would also be in effect when you take medicine that legitimately cures a condition. That is to say, any effects that you get from taking a pill that you "think" cures a condition, will also be in effect when you take a pill that actually cures the condition and you also "think" will cure the condition. I'll take the real medicine that comes with the free placebo effect bonus please.
 
You're asking ATOT about alternative medical practices? If it isn't a pill, injection, or a cut into you, ATOT will label it as quackery.

I'm more open, myself. Practices like acupuncture have been around for millennia and they're still around. Done properly, I'm definitely sure some people are getting benefit from it.
 
kami333 said:
I find it unethical to subject patients to procedures that cause increased risk without a good benefit.
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LOL. Have you listened to the list of side effects caused by most new drugs?

Most MDs are playing 'guess and check' with your healthcare.
 
Bateluer said:
You're asking ATOT about alternative medical practices? If it isn't a pill, injection, or a cut into you, ATOT will label it as quackery.

I'm more open, myself. Practices like acupuncture have been around for millennia and they're still around. Done properly, I'm definitely sure some people are getting benefit from it.
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Astrology has been around a long time too. People will tell you they're getting benefit from it as well.
 
SMOGZINN said:
Yes actually it does. If you theory is flawed then you don't really know what you are doing or why, which means you can't actually make a predictive plan. With a flawed theory all you are really doing is sticking needles in people at random.
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When I took accutane for my horrendous acne about ten years ago the doctor told me that they didn't really understand why the drug worked, just that it did.
 
SMOGZINN said:
Would you really go to a doctor that says, "here is a red pill, most of the time it stops people from having pain, but I don't really know why, but maybe if you take the pill it will help you too." Of course not, you would ask what was in the pill.
We don't know what is in this pill.
Click to expand...

You mean like Tylenol?
 
My wife had degenerative disc in her back. Even the untrained eye could see her problems in the mri image. Lots of pain, had to help her out of bed daily.
Docs suggested back surgery, instead she went to acupuncture treatments for several months and her back is ok. This was 8 years ago and still no surgery.
I had acupuncture treatment due to wrist pain. Other than my fascination of seeing 20 needles stuck in my hand there was no actual benefit for me.
I believe it can work if you believe it does work.
 
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A proposed mechanism of acupuncture is the same mechanism by which rubbing a boo boo will make it feel better. You have wide dynamic range neurons in the spinal cord which carry a variety of sensory inputs, including pain. Acupuncture would stimulate a non-pain nerve which feeding into the wide dynamic range neuron and block pain receptors that goes to the same neuron from propagating their signals. Rubbing a wound would do the same thing, except in a much less precise and concentrated manner. This is the gating theory of pain. I have no idea whether or not this has been tested for acupuncture, but at least there's a physiological basis to the hypothesis. It most likely isn't just placebo.
 
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Acupuncture really works. I was very skeptical and thought of it as quack medicine....until it was performed on me. Not sure how it was placebo for me, since I didn't believe it will work. I was merely entertaining an offer.

With that said, there seems to be a lot of quacks practicing acupuncture, saying it'll cure everything like smoking, depression, fertility, cancer. It won't. But for pain management, it works!
 
I dunno, but the Chinese have been at "alternative" cures since before most civilizations figured out the wheel, so I'm gonna lean toward it being for real. Don't expect Western medicine to embrace it; my GP thinks chiropractic is some kind of voodoo.
 
Bateluer said:
And plenty of people swear by chiropractic care.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16461169
RESULTS:
Session I ratings indicated that the two groups were equivalent on all pain and flexion scores. The treatment group reported greater and more rapid pain reduction and greater and more rapid ROM improvement than the moist heat group. The treatment group also had greater improvements than the moist heat group in daily living activities in 4 of the 9 areas measured.

CONCLUSION:
Chiropractic care combined with heat is more effective than heat alone for treating OA-based lower back pain. Pain reduction occurs more rapidly and to a greater degree, and ROM increases more rapidly and to a greater degree
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So to sum all of this up:
-researchers confirm that acupuncture works
-researchers confirm that chiropractic works
 
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