According to Christianity, people who don't accept Jesus as their savior go to Hell?

[Zstream]

Your stunning display of logical reasoning has dismantled his efforts completely. I, for one, am convinced.

Right..... You can believe whatever you want. He has not stated anything to pursued me or probably most people.

 

[jhu]

Wow, you must of have some anger issues or something.

How does someone else knowing the outcome change my choice?

That is the issue. Because you are within the system, you cannot perceive your actions as anything other than your choice. But the perception that you have a choice and really actually having a choice are two different things.

We already have done studies on this. You can poke someone's parietal lobe and make that person move his arm. Said subject will report that he moved his arm because it was his choice to, when actually he just moved his arm because you poked his brain.

 

[sandorski]

you one of those religious nuts then that think Faith is somehow divinely empowered?

please explain, your one word replies are moronic at best.

My one word replies are accurate and efficient.

Faith is Believing with no Proof available. Trust is with Proof available and/or easily verifiable things.

I Trust an Airplane will Fly because I have seen one fly. I Trust that a newly designed Airplane will fly, because I know Engineers and such know how to make it fly and have Tested it before hand.

If I had Faith, I might just accept that Thor was gonna hammer some schmucks, because I was naive and/or stupid.

 

[Zstream]

We already have done studies on this. You can poke someone's parietal lobe and make that person move his arm. Said subject will report that he moved his arm because it was his choice to, when actually he just moved his arm because you poked his brain.

Well yes, that is the human anatomy. I do not think you will have anyone debate that. I believe the opinion you represent is flawed.

That sort of argument can be used to fit any scenario much like mine. If God did not exist do you now all of a sudden have choices?

 

[Nik]

My one word replies are accurate and efficient.

Faith is Believing with no Proof available. Trust is with Proof available and/or easily verifiable things.

I Trust an Airplane will Fly because I have seen one fly. I Trust that a newly designed Airplane will fly, because I know Engineers and such know how to make it fly and have Tested it before hand.

If I had Faith, I might just accept that Thor was gonna hammer some schmucks, because I was naive and/or stupid.

So if you're going to basically minimize the whole of the christian faith down to "I don't have any reason to believe but I will anyway for no reason" that's basically saying you're a Christian "because it might be true" and that's such a fucktarded reason to do anything.

 

[Nik]

Well yes, that is the human anatomy. I do not think you will have anyone debate that. I believe the opinion you represent is flawed.

That sort of argument can be used to fit any scenario much like mine. If God did not exist do you now all of a sudden have choices?

If you're talking about the Judeo Christian god, then yes we would then suddenly have real choices. Other gods will need to be reviewed independently.

 

[Locut0s]

So if you're going to basically minimize the whole of the christian faith down to "I don't have any reason to believe but I will anyway for no reason" that's basically saying you're a Christian "because it might be true" and that's such a fucktarded reason to do anything.

Wait you're Christian?

 

[RoloMather]

Well yes, that is the human anatomy. I do not think you will have anyone debate that. I believe the opinion you represent is flawed.

That sort of argument can be used to fit any scenario much like mine. If God did not exist do you now all of a sudden have choices?

I understand you. The two state are the same regardless if God exists or not so they should have the same properties.

Free will exists even if God knows what you will do in the future.

 

[Nik]

Wait you're Christian?

Are you asking me or are you telling me?

 

[Zstream]

If you're talking about the Judeo Christian god, then yes we would then suddenly have real choices. Other gods will need to be reviewed independently.

My point has been proven. I believe in a pure, perfect being. You unfortunately refuse to believe in that. No amount of debate will change this.

 

[jhu]

So you are saying since God already knows the decisions you make he is not allowing you to choose? Wow, talk about grasping at straws.

Pretty much. We can do this another way. Let's say you make an absolutely complete simulation of a human all the way down to each atomic interaction. This absolutely complete human simulation will think it's alive, talk to you like any other human, and perceive to make choices, etc. However, the reality is that since he is a simulation, his actions, thoughts, decisions, etc. are set. You can rewind the simulation, and he will do the same things, have the same thoughts, etc. over and over again. Since we real humans are outside of his simulated world, we know (or at least can calculate) what our simulated friend will do, what choices he'll make, etc. Basically, our simulated friend thinks he has choices, but in reality we know what choices he'll. In effect, we are his God.

 

[Nik]

I understand you. The two state are the same regardless if God exists or not so they should have the same properties.

Free will exists even if God knows what you will do in the future.

Cling onto your idea of free will all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the bible describes a god that knows everything before it happens, has the power change it ahead of time, DOESN'T, and allows the creations he built to be sinners suffer in an eternal hell all because he's a god of love. 🙄

 

[Nik]

My point has been proven. I believe in a pure, perfect being. You unfortunately refuse to believe in that. No amount of debate will change this.

You don't have any reason to believe in such nonsense. You can't show why you believe. You can't say "I just do" because that kind of stupidity undermines the points you're trying to make.

You have no reason to be a Christian, plain and simple. You can't say why, you don't know why, you're just another mindless sheeple who's so brainwashed by this ridiculous book that you can't even think for yourself.

And you're proud that we cannot change this about you? Wow.

 

[RoloMather]

Here is something you should consider jhu:

You are living in the here and the now. From your reasoning:

If God doesn't exists: You have free will.

If God exists: You don't have free will.

However, you are living in the here and now. The properties of that state doesn't change regardless if God exists or not.

If you believe you have free will right now, you have to believe you have free will regardless of your belief in God.

 

[Locut0s]

You don't have any reason to believe in such nonsense. You can't show why you believe. You can't say "I just do" because that kind of stupidity undermines the points you're trying to make.

You have no reason to be a Christian, plain and simple. You can't say why, you don't know why, you're just another mindless sheeple who's so brainwashed by this ridiculous book that you can't even think for yourself.

And you're proud that we cannot change this about you? Wow.

Ok so you aren't Christian. :awe:

 

[sandorski]

So if you're going to basically minimize the whole of the christian faith down to "I don't have any reason to believe but I will anyway for no reason" that's basically saying you're a Christian "because it might be true" and that's such a fucktarded reason to do anything.

Pretty much, except it's not quite that simple. Most people of any Religion have spent their entire Lives being told the Religion is True. Thus Faith has always just been there and they have never bothered to really think on the subject.

Most people also fill in the blanks as well. Accepting certain things as Proof, like escaping Death or they Prayed for something and it happened. Then there are always Jesus Pancakes and other events that attract all kinds of people who are trying to fill the blanks with "Proof". These are the reasons why some you may talk to always kinda smile and reply, "I know" when asked how they are sure God X exists. In their mind, they truly think they have Proof. It's just not so though.

 

[jhu]

Here is something you should consider jhu:

You are living in the here and the now. From your reasoning:

If God doesn't exists: You have free will.

If God exists: You don't have free will.

However, you are living in the here and now. The properties of that state doesn't change regardless if God exists or not.

If you believe you have free will right now, you have to believe you have free will regardless of your belief in God.

True, thus I don't believe in free will.

 

[Nik]

Ok so you aren't Christian. :awe:

😀

 

[SlitheryDee]

Well yes, that is the human anatomy. I do not think you will have anyone debate that. I believe the opinion you represent is flawed.

That sort of argument can be used to fit any scenario much like mine. If God did not exist do you now all of a sudden have choices?

Not necessarily. If we live in a deterministic universe then every event in it's entire life may have been set in stone from it's inception. That includes every galactic and planetary event, the inception of life, and every action that life carries out.

I think of the beginning of the universe with all its myriad of particles send spinning off to collide, attach to, and generally affect each other as an enormously complicated billiards break. With sufficient analysis of the position and mass of each billiards ball along with the knowledge of the velocity of the cue ball when it strikes the racked balls one could precisely calculate the full paths and final resting place of each ball at any point after the break. In that way you could predict every event of any meaning on the billiards table. Likewise all events in the life-span of the universe might be predictable if it were possible to analyze the untold numbers of particles in it as they careened out from the initial "break" of the big bang.

Notice that we don't actually have to have the capability to analyze each particle for their paths to have have been completely inevitable from the first. Each particle has only one possible path to take all the way to the end of the universe, whatever that is. Likewise entities made up of these particles have only one possible path. There may be no free will with or without God, it seems.

 

[Locut0s]

Here's my argument about religion in general. Religion can be used to either explain the physical world and or the social world (the acts of human beings amongst each other). Science provides a perfect (and much more beautiful and elegant explanation of the physical world) so religion has no say there any more. As for the world of human interactions religion has no use there either. There are plenty of secular people who have devoted their entire lived to helping the poor and needy. And there are plenty of greedy fucktard religious people who have plenty of faith but devote their lived to hurting others. Now by most religions the secular helper would go to hell and the faithful shithead goes to heaven. That my friend is nothing but a school of thought that breads hate and resentment. The fact of the matter is that Science + modern secular humanism makes religion moot. There is no need for it and it provides NOTHING!

 

[Zstream]

I think of the beginning of the universe with all its myriad of particles send spinning off to collide, attach to, and generally affect each other as an enormously complicated billiards break.

I do not believe that the universe just went "boom". It had to have a purpose to do so, this is where I believe God came in. You can argue that the world was created with a "big bang" and that is totally acceptable to me. Side note: I still believe that we know very little about how the earth was created so this sweeping theory thrust down on everyone is a little bothering.

The same can be said for evolution. In teaching, evolution is a very plausible theory and must be considered. The point that God placed a "soul" into our bodies is the major difference that seems to bother people.

 

[Locut0s]

I do not believe that the universe just went "boom". It had to have a purpose to do so, this is where I believe God came in. You can argue that the world was created with a "big bang" and that is totally acceptable to me. Side note: I still believe that we know very little about how the earth was created so this sweeping theory thrust down on everyone is a little bothering.

The same can be said for evolution. In teaching, evolution is a very plausible theory and must be considered. The point that God placed a "soul" into our bodies is the major difference that seems to bother people.

We have no more of a soul than a squirrel or mouse does. This kind of self centred thinking is the kind of thing that leads us as a human race to commit horrible acts of selfishness cruelty.

 

[Zstream]

Here's my argument about religion in general. Religion can be used to either explain the physical world and or the social world (the acts of human beings amongst each other). Science provides a perfect (and much more beautiful and elegant explanation of the physical world) so religion has no say there any more. As for the world of human interactions religion has no use there either. There are plenty of secular people who have devoted their entire lived to helping the poor and needy. And there are plenty of greedy fucktard religious people who have plenty of faith but devote their lived to hurting others. Now by most religions the secular helper would go to hell and the faithful shithead goes to heaven. That my friend is nothing but a school of thought that breads hate and resentment. The fact of the matter is that Science + modern secular humanism makes religion moot. There is no need for it and it provides NOTHING!

If I had to depend on anyone for the sake of help, nine times out of ten I would pick a religious person. There are plenty of statistics that show religious people donate more time and money to the poor.

 

[Zstream]

We have no more of a soul than a squirrel or mouse does. This kind of self centred thinking is the kind of thing that leads us as a human race to commit horrible acts of selfishness cruelty.

Why is it cruel? Do you have some standard of morals all of a sudden?

 

[Locut0s]

Why is it cruel? Do you have some standard of morals all of a sudden?

Cruelty towards animals and other people for one, the idea that god made the earth and other creatures to serve man kind if unbelievably self centred. We have no more right to exist on this planet than any other animal on it.