Acceleration problem with a Dodge Avenger

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Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,141
138
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Hey Garage, my mom is having a problem with her car, an 09 Avenger R/T with the 2.4l 4 cylinder. The problem is, during acceleration, the engine will die and restart over about a half-second or less.

The dashboard lights and chimes come on, and then go out almost immediately. It does it both when on cruise or manually acceleration. My dad said it was bad gas, but it's done it across two full tanks now.

I say the problem is she bought a Dodge but that doesn't fix the problem in the short term. Any ideas what might be going on here?

Necro-post bumped a 2-year-old thread. Closed.

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Moderator
 
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power_hour

Senior member
Oct 16, 2010
789
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Bad fuel pump or dirty injectors? Any smell of fuel or anything unusual under the hood/car? Hook up the car to diagnostics and look for codes. Could try disconnecting the battery and reconnecting to see if that resets the computer. Before doing that make sure you know what you are attempting...
 

jaha2000

Senior member
Jul 28, 2008
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The dodge she boguht has an unlimited powertrain warranty, so if it's a mechanical issue, she's covered just fine.

Does not sound like a powertrain issue to me. Car works just fine sometimes which would lean toward something different...

Sounds like a fuel issue to me. Could be a A/F deal too. Does it smell like gas under the hood? Leakly/faulty injector maybe? Bad MAF? Failing Fuel Pump? Are there any codes stored in the computer?
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
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Does not sound like a powertrain issue to me. Car works just fine sometimes which would lean toward something different...

Sounds like a fuel issue to me. Could be a A/F deal too. Does it smell like gas under the hood? Leakly/faulty injector maybe? Bad MAF? Failing Fuel Pump? Are there any codes stored in the computer?

I didn't intend to suggest it was. I just was pointing out that the biggest ticket repairs would be covered.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,141
138
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No gas smell, no codes, and the ODBII data appears to be within tolerances. Only exception is the two voltage readings in Torque. One says 13.1v (voltage) and one says 12.5v (voltage command module).

I keep telling her to get a new battery.

It's a very intermittent issue. It happened 5 times on the highway with cruise on the way to San Antonio, 3 times on the way back. Car was filled before leaving Corpus and again before leaving SA. It hadn't happened again till today while driving to Portland over the harbor bridge.
 

CA19100

Senior member
Jun 29, 2012
634
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Does she have another key for it? It almost sounds like it may be a communications problem with the chip in the key. It's a longshot, but it's an easy thing to try.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
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No gas smell, no codes, and the ODBII data appears to be within tolerances. Only exception is the two voltage readings in Torque. One says 13.1v (voltage) and one says 12.5v (voltage command module).

I keep telling her to get a new battery.

It's a very intermittent issue. It happened 5 times on the highway with cruise on the way to San Antonio, 3 times on the way back. Car was filled before leaving Corpus and again before leaving SA. It hadn't happened again till today while driving to Portland over the harbor bridge.

Voltage while the engine is running will not normally be affected by the battery charge. And, since the battery is wired in parallel with the rest of the car's electronics, once the engine is running most cars will allow you to remove the battery with no affect whatsoever on the engine.

13.1 volts is a little low for a running engine, but not so much as would make me feel that something was wrong with the charging system. The voltage at the command module is most likely regulated, so that's not an indication of low system voltage, it's just what the regulator for the command module steps down the alternator voltage to in order to keep things acceptable for the command module.

In my experience, unless you're buying gas from "bubba's home-brew gasohol station," "bad gas" is just not a thing that happens. Between the overall quality of current name-brand gasoline and the frankly amazing ability of modern EFI systems to adjust to variances in fuel quality there just plain aren't the same sort of issues that people used to get in the 1960s with carbureted cars.

Similarly, I also doubt that the issue is with the key. Generally even cars that have an RFID chip in the key only validate at startup. If they lose communication with the key while the engine is running, they still keep running until they are manually shut off with the key like normal (but they won't start again if they cannot communicate with a key). This is done for safety. It's just not safe to have the system kill the engine intentionally and the engineers design the system failure modes accordingly.

What does seem possible is either a dirty MAF sensor causing problems with fuel metering on acceleration (though this would usually trigger a "check engine" light) or a fault in the electrical portion of the ignition switch. The latter would be especially possible if your mother has a large number of things on her keyring; if there's enough weight on it, acceleration could cause the keyring to pull on the ignition switch enough to cause a discontinuity if the switch itself is marginal to begin with.

Leaky or faulty injectors tend not to be intermittent and usually cause rough running pretty consistently, not a random cut-out. Similarly, a bad fuel pump or fuel pump relay would generally take longer to "reset" than a half-second.

The first thing I'd try is cleaning the throttle body and the MAF sensor. After that, I'd want to check the electrical portion of the ignition switch.

ZV
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,001
113
106
I had a similar problem with my 97 Cavalier. It would die and restart while cruising down the interstate. If it didn't restart on its own, I'd slip the transmission into neutral, and try to crank it. It usually restarted and I was back on my way. It started happening more often to the point where it would die trying to go up steep hills. Luckily for me, when it finally wouldn't restart, I wasn't on the interstate. I ended up having to replace the fuel pump. No problems since.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
TPS?

Also, there was a PCM recall on a small number of 2009 Avengers.
 

bigi

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2001
2,484
154
106
I'd check the MAF sensor or rather the electrical connection of it.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,036
547
126
In my experience, unless you're buying gas from "bubba's home-brew gasohol station," "bad gas" is just not a thing that happens. Between the overall quality of current name-brand gasoline and the frankly amazing ability of modern EFI systems to adjust to variances in fuel quality there just plain aren't the same sort of issues that people used to get in the 1960s with carbureted cars.
ZV
Not that I think bad gas is to blame, but I can say that I used to share your opinion on the rarity of bad gas...until it happened to us! Between my wife and I we always fill up at 76, Shell or Chevron. Well, one day we get a tank of bad gas at 76 causing our WRX to run like crap. Misfire, hesitation, CEL, wouldn't make boost, etc. I was scratching my head for a week. Luckily we have extra cars. Finally a mechanic suggested we look at the fuel. Disconnected the fuel line and pumped some gas into a clear bottle. Immediately noticed it didn't smell right and after a minute you could clearly see there was something else in the gas that settled out. Might have been diesel but no way to be sure. At any rate, problem fixed itself once we got rid of the bad gas.
 

Chris A

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,431
1
76
With the dash lights going off then on I would check your battery connections. Had a work truck doing the same thing and found the positive side was real loose.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,141
138
106
There's just one other key (house key) and a couple of small, light plastic keychains on her keys.

The car hasn't done it since the last time I mentioned. I'm going to clean the MAF and maybe throttlebody when we both have the same day off work.

And I still say she needs a battery.

Oh and ZV, bad gas does happen. I got gas from the same station about two years ago, and my previous truck literally would not run on it.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
The dash lights are acting as if the system is resetting.

This points away from anything like ignition or sensors or throttle body, and points towards main power or engine computer or the ignition switch itself.

Things that would cause the car to act as if you rapidly turned the key off and back on. The symptoms match turning the key off and on. Since you can't actually do that with the car in gear and moving, look for things that would duplicate that effect.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,141
138
106
The damn car's still doing it. Cleaned MAF, TB, new air and fuel filter, reset the computer. Nothing on sensors except an o2 sensor that stays at .72v (the other one varies from .2 to .7).

She got mad at me for not knowing what's wrong. I told her to take it to a damn mechanic. I also told her not to buy the POS Dodge in the first place.

Edit: I should also say I was listening to it idle, and it sounded like it was surging a bit, but the RPMs didn't change, confirmed by watching Torque on my tablet.

No codes, either.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
The damn car's still doing it. Cleaned MAF, TB, new air and fuel filter, reset the computer. Nothing on sensors except an o2 sensor that stays at .72v (the other one varies from .2 to .7).

She got mad at me for not knowing what's wrong. I told her to take it to a damn mechanic. I also told her not to buy the POS Dodge in the first place.

Edit: I should also say I was listening to it idle, and it sounded like it was surging a bit, but the RPMs didn't change, confirmed by watching Torque on my tablet.

No codes, either.

The dealer scan tool will see all sorts of stuff going back through many key cycles.

My Jeep had a minor problem and I couldn't get to the dealer for days. I asked about checking it, and they said if it was within the last fifty key cycles, they would still see it with their Starscan, now WiTech, tool. I think they said fifty.

Anyway, they could look at data that was quite a bit older than I ever would have thought, to diagnose a problem. Just because the malfunction indicator light went out already, or never came on, doesn't mean there's no record to be seen with a dealer scan tool.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
Check all main battery connections to all fuseblocks and the battery to chassis ground cable. Also make sure the alternator charge wire is good.
 

power_hour

Senior member
Oct 16, 2010
789
1
0
The damn car's still doing it. Cleaned MAF, TB, new air and fuel filter, reset the computer. Nothing on sensors except an o2 sensor that stays at .72v (the other one varies from .2 to .7).

She got mad at me for not knowing what's wrong. I told her to take it to a damn mechanic. I also told her not to buy the POS Dodge in the first place.

Edit: I should also say I was listening to it idle, and it sounded like it was surging a bit, but the RPMs didn't change, confirmed by watching Torque on my tablet.

No codes, either.

Alternator not charging the battery maybe? Faulty fuel pump comes to mind but you said no gas smell. There has to be a simple reason for this.
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
4
0
The damn car's still doing it. Cleaned MAF, TB, new air and fuel filter, reset the computer. Nothing on sensors except an o2 sensor that stays at .72v (the other one varies from .2 to .7).

She got mad at me for not knowing what's wrong. I told her to take it to a damn mechanic. I also told her not to buy the POS Dodge in the first place.

Edit: I should also say I was listening to it idle, and it sounded like it was surging a bit, but the RPMs didn't change, confirmed by watching Torque on my tablet.

No codes, either.

theres probably an idle control motor too, that cause cause havoc if its not working right. it can effect more then the idle...
 
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