Academic and intellectual performance

[OinkBoink]

I've noticed that the same people who were top of the class(or pretty good students) in 5th/6th grade are the ones becoming doctors and engineers from the foremost institutions in the country or elsewhere.I'd like it if you could show me any statistics regarding this stuff.

It seems that a large part of our intellect is genetic and neurological and that there's nothing that some can do to get to the top(academically/creatively,NOT in terms of money and making a livelihood).

Opinions?

 

[Sea Moose]

Cliffs?

 

[JS80]

I've noticed that the same people who were top of the class(or pretty good students) in 5th/6th grade are the ones becoming doctors and engineers from the foremost institutions in the country or elsewhere.I'd like it if you could show me any statistics regarding this stuff.

It seems that a large part of our intellect is genetic and neurological and that there's nothing that some can do to get to the top(academically/creatively,NOT in terms of money and making a livelihood).

Opinions?

I would say no correlation. Of the friends I had from gifted class in 6th grade (that I am aware of their current situation) one works at the local supermarket, two joined gangs, and another went into the military. A few others became druggies in high school. Don't know what happened to the rest.

Also, I disagree with your statement. I think the overwhelming majority of where you end up in life is what choices you make throughout your life. I know some really dumb people who work hard and love what they do and do very well financially and in life. Sure in order to invent a new drug or make a breakthrough in science one must have the genetic talent, but for most of us all that is required, in this country, is motivation. And it's usually the non-geniuses that are the entrepreneurs and investors that capitalize on the "smart" people.

 

[OinkBoink]

What in terms of IQ? Are there people who've jumped from like a 130 IQ to something like 150-160 in a couple of years?

 

[OinkBoink]

I would say no correlation. Of the friends I had from gifted class in 6th grade (that I am aware of their current situation) one works at the local supermarket, two joined gangs, and another went into the military. A few others became druggies in high school. Don't know what happened to the rest.

Also, I disagree with your statement. I think the overwhelming majority of where you end up in life is what choices you make throughout your life. I know some really dumb people who work hard and love what they do and do very well financially and in life. Sure in order to invent a new drug or make a breakthrough in science one must have the genetic talent, but for most of us all that is required, in this country, is motivation. And it's usually the non-geniuses that are the entrepreneurs and investors that capitalize on the "smart" people.

Well I'm not talking about the non-geniuses who 'capitalize' on the geniuses but those geniuses themselves.
I'm talking about pure logical/creative skill,like the ability to come up with a new revolutionary technology or prove complex mathematical theorems.

 

[RESmonkey]

I would say no correlation. Of the friends I had from gifted class in 6th grade (that I am aware of their current situation) one works at the local supermarket, two joined gangs, and another went into the military. A few others became druggies in high school. Don't know what happened to the rest.

Also, I disagree with your statement. I think the overwhelming majority of where you end up in life is what choices you make throughout your life. I know some really dumb people who work hard and love what they do and do very well financially and in life. Sure in order to invent a new drug or make a breakthrough in science one must have the genetic talent, but for most of us all that is required, in this country, is motivation. And it's usually the non-geniuses that are the entrepreneurs and investors that capitalize on the "smart" people.

I partially agree. I know a few that ended up working at a supermarket (lol the coincidence), became druggies, or just didn't do anything and are a waste of oxygen.

 

[TridenT]

There are people who are not very smart but just driven. Pretty sure there are plenty of people who are stupider than me and will end up with those engineering jobs.

You don't need to be a savant in order to be financially successful...

 

[JS80]

Well I'm not talking about the non-geniuses who 'capitalize' on the geniuses but those geniuses themselves.
I'm talking about pure logical/creative skill,like the ability to come up with a new revolutionary technology or prove complex mathematical theorems.

I don't think people's IQs change over time?

It's 2010, all ideas have been thought up of and tried. In today's world the next breakthrough will have to come from collective brainpower.

But what are we talking about? Are you asking if the next Einstein did well in 6th grade? I think the 6th grade is way too early.

Or are we talking just successful people? It doesn't take a genius to become a doctor or engineer. And 99.9999% of doctors and engineers won't come up with anything revolutionary.

I'm sure there is a very slightly "positive" correlation between success in 6th grade and where people end up in life. I would also say there is a stronger correlation between parents who give a shit in the 6th grade and where they end up. But ultimately it comes down to personal choices throughout life.

 

[OinkBoink]

Once again,my query is NOT about financial success but intellectual/academic/creative success.

 

[OinkBoink]

Also,what's the age by which a person's IQ is fairly well defined and won't change much throughout life(excluding factors like getting depressed and stuff).

 

[JS80]

Once again,my query is NOT about financial success but intellectual/academic/creative success.

I don't think anyone will disagree that there is a correlation between genetic IQ and the ability to conduct/understand complex science/math. But if your question is are the ones that are math/science alpha students in the 6th grade can predict anything about if they are a savant? Absolutely not. Especially with the retarded math/science the US teaches. And even still it's way too young to tell.

Wasn't Einstein like a B/C student as a child?

 

[rudeguy]

on a slightly related note....does anyone have any info on how memory relates to intelligence?

 

[TridenT]

I don't think anyone will disagree that there is a correlation between genetic IQ and the ability to conduct/understand complex science/math. But if your question is are the ones that are math/science alpha students in the 6th grade can predict anything about if they are a savant? Absolutely not. Especially with the retarded math/science the US teaches. And even still it's way too young to tell.

Wasn't Einstein like a B/C student as a child?

No, he was a fucking god.

 

[esun]

Well you should consider that the performance of students in 6th grade often determines their placement in classes in 7th grade, which typically determines how far they get by 12th grade (when they would go to college).

If you are bad at math in 6th grade, you will probably be placed in remedial math in 7th grade and may only get to algebra by 12th grade. This makes it less likely you will have the opportunity to go to a good college, get a better education, make more connections will other smart people, etc.

That's not to say that those that don't do as well in 6th grade don't have the potential to catch-up and develop as well as (or even better than) others in the future. But it would require some effort on their part to break out of the track they are in and convince their school they should be placed in tougher classes. A lot of students (and their parents) are content to accept the track they are in because they assume the school knows best or just don't value education that much (or don't realize the consequences of going through the standard track).

 

[spikespiegal]

My parents moved around a lot when I was in grade school, as often as three times in a school year. I attended all different types of school from inner city (ghetto) to private / parochial. I'm also one of those 'mutants' who has an incredibly vivid recollection of everything that went on from the first day of pre-school. I also have many elementary school teachers in my family.

I relucantly agree with the OP in that the top students in the later years of 4-6th grade and junior high have mostly all turned out to have stable careers in ther later life. By 'stable' I mean they have chosen their careers, and are able to provide for their lifestyles as they want. Might not be rich or practicing medicine, but are comfortable because they've chosen to be. While this group typically (but not always) includes the highest I.Q.s of the bunch, it also includes a lot of average intelligence kids who are just more disciplined and driven enough to get where they are. I'll be the first to admit that once kids start getting past pre-teen it's pretty obvious to spot the ones who will be working at Target when they're 40, or, better said, not working at Target when they're 40.

You then have that pesky sub group of high I.Q. kids who scored off the charts on tests, but were generally a bit flaky and either now have careers driving a delivery truck, or are millionaires.

I would also say there is a stronger correlation between parents who give a shit in the 6th grade and where they end up.

You must know some grade-school teachers All the ones I know will tell you the same thing in that all their best students tend to demographically come from stable homes. Within a week of the start of school a veteran grade-school teacher can typically point out with greater than 90% accuracy which kids have the best parental influence without knowing a thing about the kids homelife.

 

[TecHNooB]

You then have that pesky sub group of high I.Q. kids who scored off the charts on tests, but were generally a bit flaky and either now have careers driving a delivery truck, or are millionaires.

90% of ATOT is in this group Or claims to be