ACA (a.k.a. Obamacare) Upheld

[jstern01]

Yeah, I don't think some people realize how much insurance actually costs. Yeah, your employer is deducting $50 a paycheck for your individual plan. They're also paying a massive portion of your premium. Add on a spouse or an entire family and the premiums are huge. People balk at the COBRA prices, but you have to understand that even that rate is discounted from personally purchased insurance premiums - COBRA allows you to continue getting the group rate.

What most people do not know is that a large part of the fortune 500 are self insured. They pay companies like UHC, Cigna and such to manage the claims and negotiate the payment rates . Because they are self insured, they can take a tax credit to help offset some of the expense. Also the percentage that employees pay for their health insurance has grown to 17% for single employees and for families to 28%.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/sto...age-survey-shows-employer-spending-spike.aspx

Add in the fact that many have increase their deductibles and raised their co-pays as well.

 

[jstern01]

so explain to me why having my kids on my heath insurance will cause my rates to increase?

kids are stupid and do stupid things like not eating right, swallowing objects that can block their windpipe, fall and break things more often then you. And when they become teens, experiment with drugs, drive to fast, don't pay attention to their surrounds and get run over. Oh wait, that last part is really about congress.

 

[shadow9d9]

Oh look, Ausm cheering on his "side" without discussing any of the merits or lack thereof of the bill. That was TOTALLY unexpected and I NEVER saw that coming.

When costs continue to skyrocket due to the lack of cost containment, what are you going to say then? "But...but...but..Bush?"

The only way to keep costs down is to go single payer and have the government bargain as a whole, cutting out the insurance middle men and negotiating lower prices. Republicans in congress wouldn't even allow a single payer bill to be READ in congress... so if you want prices to come down, blame them.

 

[Wreckem]

Uhh, HI is so expensive now that you can spend $1000 per month for a healthy family of 4 where the oldest member is <35. Also, with no pre-existing conditions you can always sign up for HI with no risk of being denied whenever someone in the family gets sick... So let's see, pay $1250 fine or $12,000 per year for insurance. I'll take the fine, thank you...

Flaw in your plan its, they cannot deny for preexisting conditions, but they can still charge a lot more. And I was refering to single people.

 

[Wreckem]

Yeah, I don't think some people realize how much insurance actually costs. Yeah, your employer is deducting $50 a paycheck for your individual plan. They're also paying a massive portion of your premium. Add on a spouse or an entire family and the premiums are huge. People balk at the COBRA prices, but you have to understand that even that rate is discounted from personally purchased insurance premiums - COBRA allows you to continue getting the group rate.

That is called the cost of having kids. If you cannot afford kids, you shouldn't have kids. Especially if you still cant afford them even with the tax breaks they provide.

 

[dank69]

...

Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen.

...

Proof that the Dems are better than the GOP. They voted for something in the interest of the greater good even though it is detrimental to themselves.

 

[shadow9d9]

Now that we've established that a tax can be used as punishment for not purchasing a product from a private third party, there truly is no limit to how this could be used. Using the logic that the court used (that the penalty is in fact a tax), there is literally no limit to what people can be compelled to do simply by penalizing them with a hefty tax.

The limit is to be determined by congress, not a shaking of the magic 8 ball.

Republicans refuse to eliminate the middle men-insurance... so if our only choice is to keep them, then getting everyone on board is going to require a tax penalty to buy a third party nonsensical product. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Matt1970]

Heh, what about those poor bastards who can't afford healthcare and can barely make house payments or barely make rent? Now they are going to have to come up with $5000 more a year in taxes. Whay to stick it to the lower class.

And they say the dems are for the working class people. Pfft. Fuckin hypocrites.

 

[jstern01]

Flaw in your plan its, they cannot deny for preexisting conditions, but they can still charge a lot more. And I was refering to single people.

Its not my fucking problem you bred without being able to afford it.

Because you are stupid, you will get drunk, drive reckless, get in an accident, incurring hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical expenses, and not pay. Resulting in my sorry ass having to pay higher premiums for your sorry selfish ass, that is why.

 

[shadow9d9]

Flaw in your plan its, they cannot deny for preexisting conditions, but they can still charge a lot more. And I was refering to single people.

Actually it is your problem. If they wind up in the ER without insurance, YOU pay the bill. I deal with reality, you deal with ideal fantasy.

 

[Wreckem]

Heh, what about those poor bastards who can't afford healthcare and can barely make house payments or barely make rent? Now they are going to have to come up with $5000 more a year in taxes. Whay to stick it to the lower class.

And they say the dems are for the working class people. Pfft. Fuckin hypocrites.

The only way anyone is going to pay $5k in tax penalties with the ACA is if they make $200,000.

 

[shadow9d9]

Heh, what about those poor bastards who can't afford healthcare and can barely make house payments or barely make rent? Now they are going to have to come up with $5000 more a year in taxes. Whay to stick it to the lower class.

And they say the dems are for the working class people. Pfft. Fuckin hypocrites.

You never even read up on the bill. This is the problem of america.

The poor are exempted. You would know that if you bothered becoming informed.

 

[dank69]

Heh, what about those poor bastards who can't afford healthcare and can barely make house payments or barely make rent? Now they are going to have to come up with $5000 more a year in taxes. Whay to stick it to the lower class.

And they say the dems are for the working class people. Pfft. Fuckin hypocrites.

Proving you don't know shit about this law except what foxnews tells you to think.

 

[jstern01]

Heh, what about those poor bastards who can't afford healthcare and can barely make house payments or barely make rent? Now they are going to have to come up with $5000 more a year in taxes. Whay to stick it to the lower class.

And they say the dems are for the working class people. Pfft. Fuckin hypocrites.

Did you actually read the ACA, or just listen to Fox news? Those that can not afford coverage and their income is 400% of the Federal poverty line will get credits to help pay. Those even worse off, will get free coverage. Take a moment and read the damn thing before whining.

 

[Wreckem]

Actually it is your problem. If they wind up in the ER without insurance, YOU pay the bill. I deal with reality, you deal with ideal fantasy.

Single payer could solve all this. GOP is against that. Free market blah blah blah.

Price controls would fix the cost of healthcare. GOP is against that. Free market blah blah blah.

Republicans want to spend $1trillion on defense, but don't give a shit about funding healthcare. IF they could get away with cutting medicare, they would. But oh no. Gotta spend money on shit that really does nothing in the long term for the US.

Free market has god damn fucking proved it does NOT WORK for healthcare. Healthcare costs weren't really a problem until healthcare went for profit like gangbusters. For 30 years the free market has controled healthcare. The only thing the free market has done, has brought lower quality of care and higher prices.

One way or another, the only way to stop the runaway price of healthcare is for the govt to step in. More so than what the ACA does. Ideally a single payer system with price controls. But thats socialist... So is every other god damn public service...

For profit healthcare = bad for America.

 

[shadow9d9]

Single payer solves all this. GOP is against that. Free market blah blah blah.

Price controls would fix the cost of healthcare. GOP is against that. Free market blah blah blah.

Republicans want to spend $1trillion on defense, but don't give a shit about funding healthcare. IF they could get away with cutting medicare they would. But oh no. Gotta spend money on shit that really does nothing in the long term for the US.

Free market has god damn fucking proved it does NOT WORK for healthcare. Healthcare costs weren't a problem until healthcare went for profit.

Yes. And?

 

[lopri]

Yes. And?

Obamacare?

 

[nyker96]

interesting, I didn't think it would be completely upheld. In my mind, I do have some doubts if US gov has the power to mandate health care. It's like forcing you to eat certain way etc. Very interesting how this all turns out legally.

 

[Fern]

Something not mentioned often is the possible significance of the Medicaid portion of the bill. I'll look forward to the professional analysts opinion, but that was something that hugely concerned some states.

Pretty much all states are in severe budget/financial problems. To now possibly force them to take on an additional burden in these economic times looks like a good way to force an economic melt-down.

I saw where it looked like SCOTUS gave those states some relief, but I think we'll have to see how this plays out to really know.

Fern

 

[Matt1970]

Did you actually read the ACA, or just listen to Fox news? Those that can not afford coverage and their income is 400% of the Federal poverty line will get credits to help pay. Those even worse off, will get free coverage. Take a moment and read the damn thing before whining.

Help pay? Your taxes are not supposed to go up at all !!!!! You are just making excuses for another lie out of your Mesiah.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your POV), we have a precedent set of the President deciding he can ignore laws, so there's not much to stop the next conservative POTUS (whoever that may be) to simply decide not to tax or go after anyone who chooses not to follow the law.

look forward to Obamacare waivers issued for all 50 states next time there's a Republican in the White House.

lol

 

[Wreckem]

Something not mentioned often is the possible significance of the Medicaid portion of the bill. I'll look forward to the professional analysts opinion, but that was something that hugely concerned some states.

Pretty much all states are in severe budget/financial problems. To now possibly force them to take on an additional burden in these economic times looks like a good way to force an economic melt-down.

I saw where it looked like SCOTUS gave those states some relief, but I think we'll have to see how this plays out to really know.

Fern

What is did was, the Govt cannot yank all medicaid funding if they don't implement the expansions. They can only yank money that would be related to any medicaid expansions.

Feds already pay for the vast majority of medicaid. It only prevents them from yanking all funding.

 

[fskimospy]

Something not mentioned often is the possible significance of the Medicaid portion of the bill. I'll look forward to the professional analysts opinion, but that was something that hugely concerned some states.

Pretty much all states are in severe budget/financial problems. To now possibly force them to take on an additional burden in these economic times looks like a good way to force an economic melt-down.

I saw where it looked like SCOTUS gave those states some relief, but I think we'll have to see how this plays out to really know.

Fern

They didn't give them some relief, they gave them total relief under this ruling. States may participate in the newer provisions of Medicaid if they want to. Any additional burden is elective.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Did you actually read the ACA, or just listen to Fox news? Those that can not afford coverage and their income is 400% of the Federal poverty line will get credits to help pay. Those even worse off, will get free coverage. Take a moment and read the damn thing before whining.

NO!!! i wanna froth at the mouth about this even though i didn't look at either the economic or medical outcomes of this being passed!! STOP BEING A FUCKING COMMUNIST.

 

[momeNt]

Here you go

Guess which country doesn't have a universal healthcare system?

Yea the only difference between the USA and the rest of those countries is UHC, don't bother trying to account for anything to do with actual health or lifestyle of the individuals that make up the country.

The COST has nothing to do with who pays. The cost is made up of everything that goes into the treatment as well. Things like tuition for medical school, cost of books, how technologically advanced and available treatments are also effects the statistic you posted.

Take a country that only has doctors who rub some dirt on it, and is completely private, their costs would be very low compared to a country with UHC but uses cutting edge technology to treat the smallest scratch.