Absolute zero isn't anymore zero

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126
There aren't that many things set in stone in science, but Absolute Zero, the lowest possible temperature at which atomic movement stops altogether was one of them. But you can thank quantum physics, the ultimate troll of the physics world, for ruining this as well.

Scientists have been able to go below zero Kelvin, -460°F or -273°C, something that was previously thought impossible. It is still impossible, you can't get any cooler than zero Kelvin, all movement has already stopped.

But that hasn't stopped scientists from adding a negative side to the Kelvin scale, making it possible to get negative temperatures.

Negative temperatures on the Kelvin scale aren't colder than positive ones, in fact, they're hotter than any possible positive temperature.

To try to understand negative temperatures, think of the Kelvin scale not as a straight line but as a loop.

Temperatures approach zero Kelvin and then go below into negative territory. At the same time, infinite Kelvin is not the end of the scale, beyond it are very high negative temperature.

At the atom level, temperature has a direct link to the energy level distribution of atoms. The cooler a gas is, the more likely it is that atoms will occupy lower energy states. As it heats up, more atoms occupy higher energy states, but most still tend to stay at the lower ones.

This is known as the Boltzmann distribution. Eventually, at infinite temperature, all energy states are equally probable, meaning atoms will occupy any of them.

As we push into the negative temperature range, things get strange, here atoms tend to occupy the higher energy states rather than the lower ones, the exact opposite of positive temperatures.

Negative temperatures are not possible in all systems as they would require infinite energy. However, some systems have an upper limit to the amount of energy they can absorb and get hotter.

Once the limit is reached, energy can still be pushed into the system, but it won't get any hotter, rather it will move over to the negative temperature range.

Temperature is directly linked to the movement of atoms, the less movement the cooler a system is. But temperature is also linked to the amount of energy in a system. Normally, increasing the total energy increases the movement, i.e. kinetic energy.

But if you manage to increase the amount of energy without increasing kinetic energy, you can push a system into negative temperatures. Researchers were able to devise an experiment that created such a system.

They cooled a gas of a few hundred thousand atoms to a few nanokelvin, a billionth of a Kelvin, very close to absolute zero.

At this temperature, virtually all movement stops. The scientists then immobilized the atoms using a laser lattice limiting their movement, therefore creating an upper bound to the kinetic energy. The atoms could still change position via quantum tunneling.

The potential energy and interaction were also limited in the experiment. This way, the scientists were able to push the system to negative temperatures of a few nanokelvin. What's more, that state was actually stable.

A system at a very low temperature is stable, isolated from outside factors, the balls are all in the valley in the image to the left.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Quan...o-Negative-Temperatures-Achieved-318623.shtml
 

grohl

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2004
2,849
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It's WAY to early in the morning with this hangover to think this hard
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
126
omg.. reminds me of taking Diffy Q's math class and imaginary numbers (i).

now we have imaginary Kelvin :eek:

mind=blown
 

Ophir

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2001
1,211
4
81
I'm not sure how this is news. We have achieved negative temperature long ago. Population inversion, and thus negative temperature, is necessary for lasers to work.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
It's just a bunch of bullshit that someone made up to publish in a magazine. It doesn't mean anything.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Some of the things that happen near zero are crazy. Look at superfluids. Damn stuff is so viscous it will flow up and over it's container.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
Oh right... that's what absolute zero is. Hadn't had to "use" it since senior year of school-high.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Goddamn science.

I pretty much got nothing from that article. Ok...absolute zero...lack of molecular movement. Keyword 'molecular,' right?

So what...actually...happens....below zero Kelvin? Electrons stop orbiting?
 

TecHNooB

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
7,458
1
76
omg.. reminds me of taking Diffy Q's math class and imaginary numbers (i).

now we have imaginary Kelvin :eek:

mind=blown

throwing imaginary numbers into the mix is a common way to get more mileage out of a theory. personally, im tired of it :mad:
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
I guess that begs the question: Is there such a thing as absolute zero? Or is there such a thing as a limit in science? It seems like, at the extremes, there are more similarities than differences. Perhaps everything is just one big circle???
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
Sounds like absolute zero is still absolute zero. All this is is creative name calling and definitions for what people think of as temperature.

There is still no movement of the atoms, what they've done is add more energy to motionless atoms. So while still absolute zero, what can happen is absolute zero + more stored energy.

Interesting, but not nearly as dramatic as what the title suggests.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Sounds like absolute zero is still absolute zero. All this is is creative name calling and definitions for what people think of as temperature.

There is still no movement of the atoms, what they've done is add more energy to motionless atoms. So while still absolute zero, what can happen is absolute zero + more stored energy.

Interesting, but not nearly as dramatic as what the title suggests.

Negative temperature is achieved when, after adding energy, entropy is decreased. You need to understand the definition before dismissing what is going on...
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
So answer my one dumb question- is absolute zero a COMPLETE lack of anything moving?

I had understood, as poorly explained in school, as simply being a lack of movement in atoms as a whole. Does it actually mean electrons are in fixed positions, too?

If so, does that mean these negative temperatures are based in the behavior of the less-understand 'smaller than protons/neutrons/electrons' particles?

I'm not asking for a dissertation; the opposite, in fact. Someone give me the kindergarten version of this 'negative kelvin' thing.

Me on quantum physics: :hmm: then D: then :'(
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
The discovery has great practical potential. Using negative temperatures, thermal engines operating at above 100 percent efficiency are possible.

This doesn't violate the law of energy conservation, rather, the engine could absorb energy from the hotter medium but also from the colder medium.
So could a Zero Kelvin Module be made that would be able to power Atlantis' shield?
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
So answer my one dumb question- is absolute zero a COMPLETE lack of anything moving?

I had understood, as poorly explained in school, as simply being a lack of movement in atoms as a whole. Does it actually mean electrons are in fixed positions, too?

If so, does that mean these negative temperatures are based in the behavior of the less-understand 'smaller than protons/neutrons/electrons' particles?

I'm not asking for a dissertation; the opposite, in fact. Someone give me the kindergarten version of this 'negative kelvin' thing.

Me on quantum physics: :hmm: then D: then :'(

Pretty much.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
Negative temperature is achieved when, after adding energy, entropy is decreased. You need to understand the definition before dismissing what is going on...



I'm not dismissing the findings, I'm dismissing a sensationalist headline that was created to garner page reads and attention.