Absolute must read.

[0marTheZealot]

ammonia based fertilizers are made from natural gas
we are fundementally fsked

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Pers

Plastics can be recycled however and I have little doubt we would find a way to make fertilizer.

ok first of all...in order to recycle you need energy. so sh!t -- back to square one - WE HAVE NONE. woo hoo..

WE have many sources of power that dont require oil.

 

[cwjerome]

So the truth comes out.. thaks pers (and omar the willing accomplice). Anti-capitalist propaganda has never looks so ridiculous.

 

[0marTheZealot]

yea read the book ignore the facts and keep sticking your head in the sand it, just leaves your ass for the world to kick

charrison what are these other sources of energy? dont mention natural gas (we are in the midst of a natural gas crisis), and dont mention coal.

cwjerome, explain to me how captalism, which is based on an ever increasing growth scheme, is not responsible for our problem soon? unless we have growth each year every year, our economies will fall. we are about to run into the mother of all growth stoppages. well see how your precious capatalism will work in a decade.

 

[cwjerome]

Omar, perhaps you are correct. We should abandon modern civilization because people are too dumb to progress, invent new technologies, and survive. Let's go back to, say.... the 1850s, yeah, that should do the trick.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
So the truth comes out.. thaks pers (and omar the willing accomplice). Anti-capitalist propaganda has never looks so ridiculous.

I'm gonna guess that you've accumulated all of your stupidity by doing none of the reading necessary to even form an opinion on this matter, right?



George W. Bush - President of The United States, Has expressed his concern on this matter.
James Baker III - Former US secretary of state, has particulary addressed his concern with Iraq and their export of oil to our country.

Michael Simmons - a member of Dick Cheney's Energy Task Force has said "Without volume energy we have no sustainable water, we have no sustainable food, we now have no sustainable healthcare. What peaking does mean, in energy terms, is that once you've peaked, further growth in supply, is over? and the issue then, is the world's biggest serious question,"

mind you, Michael Simmons is a very proud Republican.


None of the following people are anti-capitalist spreading freaks. they're actually....republicans...scary huh?


Anyway, to understand Peak Oil's affects on an economy which must grow to sustain itself...you'd actually have to read instead of blowing air in our face.

 

[charrison]

this is for the we cannont ourselves out not using oil crowd




truck produces its own hydrogen to run on.

big points here.
--The s-10 engine was retrofited to run on hydrogen.
--proof of concept cocept cost less than 10k.
--can still run on gas
--everything fits inside the truck

Expect more of this innocation in the future as oil prices rise.

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: charrison
this is for the we cannont ourselves out not using oil crowd




truck produces its own hydrogen to run on.

big points here.
--The s-10 engine was retrofited to run on hydrogen.
--proof of concept cocept cost less than 10k.
--can still run on gas
--everything fits inside the truck

Expect more of this innocation in the future as oil prices rise.

You forgot one:

"The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles."

 

[cwjerome]

I'm not saying there won't be a problem. I just think it's not as soon as you say and it's not the ballistic crisis you make it out to be. Trust me, you can step off your pedestal... we have a dynamic system with a lot of innovative, rational people who will -as they always do- continue to advance our society. Your dream od socialism can never take root here, so enough of the anti-capitalist fear mongering already.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: charrison
this is for the we cannont ourselves out not using oil crowd




truck produces its own hydrogen to run on.

big points here.
--The s-10 engine was retrofited to run on hydrogen.
--proof of concept cocept cost less than 10k.
--can still run on gas
--everything fits inside the truck

Expect more of this innocation in the future as oil prices rise.

that's actually very promising...my guess is (and i hope) the government has developed some sort of similar technology that it's not unveiling yet for any number of corrupt reasons.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: charrison
this is for the we cannont ourselves out not using oil crowd




truck produces its own hydrogen to run on.

big points here.
--The s-10 engine was retrofited to run on hydrogen.
--proof of concept cocept cost less than 10k.
--can still run on gas
--everything fits inside the truck

Expect more of this innocation in the future as oil prices rise.

You forgot one:

"The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles."

it is a proof of concept, I did dnot claim it to be a normal vehicle range. But this it the innovation that we are going to to see.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I'm not saying there won't be a problem. I just think it's not as soon as you say and it's not the ballistic crisis you make it out to be. Trust me, you can step off your pedestal... we have a dynamic system with a lot of innovative, rational people who will -as they always do- continue to advance our society. Your dream od socialism can never take root here, so enough of the anti-capitalist fear mongering already.

hAHHAHAHAHA


you've got to be sh!tting me? my dream of socialism taking over?! who the hell do you think i am??

do you realize how stupid you just sounded? omg i'm actually laughing out loud.

and why the hell would i trust you of all people who has already proven to only speak out of your rear end? at least charrison contributed an argument and posted a link. All you've done was say Peak Oil theory is anti-capitalist drivel in order to get the rest of the world to embrace socialism. Thanks for your opinion -- now prove it. I don't think socialism has even been mentioned in this entire thread, hahaha!

So not only did you disregard any fact i've presented as anti-capitalist propaganda...you've immediately assumed i'm a socialist....as if there are only two ecomomic models in the world. You still want me to trust you? heh.

 

[cwjerome]

Woot, pretty funny huh? Ok, chill out... take a valium. You're anti-capitalist, and claim you're not socialist... so what's it? What's the solution? What do you advocate? Quasi-socialist welfare state like Sweden? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but they rely on growth and consumption also. Let's see, so that leaves... a facist-like all government controlled business, and, um.... nomadic society?

For the record, links aren't godlike, and anyone can link anything to support their argument. Besides, what you have referenced doesn't necessarily prove your conclusion.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Woot, pretty funny huh? Ok, chill out... take a valium. You're anti-capitalist, and claim you're not socialist... so what's it? What's the solution? What do you advocate? Quasi-socialist welfare state like Sweden? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but they rely on growth and consumption also. Let's see, so that leaves... a facist-like all government controlled business, and, um.... nomadic society?

For the record, links aren't godlike, and anyone can link anything to support their argument. Besides, what you have referenced doesn't necessarily prove your conclusion.

we'd definitely need to create a system which doesn't rely soley on growth. Interest based systems, such as ours are the problem, because without growth people wont be able to pay off the debt they accumulate. Ironically...the christian right supports collecting interest despite the Bible (because they're a bunch of hypocrites)since they have reaped the rewards of capitalism in the last century. Are you gonna immediately assume i'm an atheist? Cause i'm Catholic...anyway, Read Shakespeare's play "the merchant of venice" -- it demonstrates our hyprocrisy with respect to collecting interest.


Since the beginning of this union...we've only had two presidents to suggest change to our monetary system. Lincoln and Kennedy. We all know what happened to them.

 

[cwjerome]

OK, my bad. What you want is WORSE than socialism. Pure stagnation, zero growth, no progress, no advancement, and no hope for the future. That's a pretty tough sell, good luck.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
OK, my bad. What you want is WORSE than socialism. Pure stagnation, zero growth, no progress, no advancement, and no hope for the future. That's a pretty tough sell, good luck.

It's not what i want...it's what we would have to deal with. At least a slower rate of growth both in consumer goods and population. You can ask god why he gave us only 2 trillion barrels of oil...that wasn't what I wanted.

 

[0marTheZealot]

zero growth will be better than the hell we will face sooner or later

you can not possible accept the fact that we can keep on growing in a finite world. something has to give. eventually we are going to hit a block that will break our growth. it just so happens that the collapse of petrosociety will do just that.

 

[cwjerome]

I guess we might as well live up up then, let's get our jiggy on before the world dies people! (Damn mankind for inventing electricity and automobiles)

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I guess we might as well live up up then, let's get our jiggy on before the world dies people! (Damn mankind for inventing electricity and automobiles)

many people already blame your generation for "living it up" in the past...

 

[cwjerome]

Hmm, well, my generation hasn't been around for too long.

Speaking of the past, alarmists have been predicting millions of 'end of the world' scenarios for about the last 5000 years or so.

 

[Infohawk]

cwjerome, you don't seem to undestand that attacking Iraq isn't helping the war on terror and that Iraq was never a threat to us.

 

[cwjerome]

Infohawk, you don't seem to see the bigger picture and have no clue as to how to win the war on terror.

What exactly does your post have to do with this topic anyway?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Infohawk, you don't seem to see the bigger picture and have no clue as to how to win the war on terror.

There is no bigger picture. The alleged reason is to provide a democracy in the middle east that will be our friend and love Israel. Thta's unrealistic. Even if they were a democracy, they would hate the US and Israel. There is no bigger picture. The pretext was WMDs and when that fell through you flip-floppers came up for another post-text. Nice try.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Infohawk, you don't seem to see the bigger picture and have no clue as to how to win the war on terror.

What exactly does your post have to do with this topic anyway?

LOL, he's just blurting out mindless liberal drivel they've been condition to spew, regardless of the topic. "GAY MARRIAGE IS GOOD!!!"

 

[0marTheZealot]

jerome
what the hell

ever hear of a straw man argument? that's what you just presented. answer the question at hand.

do you think that infinite growth can continue indefinately in a finite world with terribly finite resources? if it can't, then there must be a blocking point.

as MS has said

people that say "Speaking of the past, alarmists have been predicting millions of 'end of the world' scenarios for about the last 5000 years or so" remind me of a sexually promiscious, hard drinking, chain smoking, meat eating man going to a doctor and saying "HA I TOLD YOU I'D LIVE THIS LONG. I DON'T NEED NO FSKING DOCTORS."

just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it will never happen.


let's also get back on topic away from the iraq war. let's stick to MS's book and peak oil in general.