Absentee voting in FL? They can throw out your ballot. And there's nothing you can do

Oct 16, 1999
10,490
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. <-- missing period.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...housands-of-bad-palm-beach-county-abse/nSpnM/

With the White House, key state and national races and the overarching issue of women’s reproductive rights hanging in the balance, Palm Beach County’s leading abortion rights advocate had no intention of sitting out the November election.

Intentions aside, Mona Reis will have no voice in the upcoming election. Her absentee ballot was tossed out this week by the county’s canvassing board.

The reason: Her signature on the ballot didn’t match the one on file in the elections office.

“It wasn’t even close,” said County Commissioner Priscilla Taylor, who, like other members of the three-member board, recognized Reis’ name.

“This is unbelievable,” said Reis, who is founder and CEO of Presidential Women’s Health Center where abortions and other services are offered. “I have never heard of anything like this in my life.”

While signature problems impact a relatively small number of votes, they illustrate the perils of casting absentee ballots, said Charles Stewart III, a political scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

In a report published last year, he estimated as many as 21 percent of absentee ballots requested nationwide never are counted. In the 2008 presidential election, 3.9 million of the 35.5 million ballots requested never reached voters. About 2.9 million that were received by voters never made it back to election offices. Another 800,000 were rejected for other reasons, such as signature problems and not being mailed in time.

The 21 percent figure may be high, he conceded. “But even if you cut it in half or by a third, it’s still a big number,” he said.

To put it in perspective, he said in the paper, “If 20 percent, or even 10 percent, of voters who stood in line on Election Day were turned away, there would be national outrage.” Because the issue remains largely unexplored, problems persist with “nary a comment.”

But, he said, voters who are thwarted in their attempts to use a voting system that is touted as safe and convenient become angry and often paranoid.

Stewart said he wasn’t surprised that many Palm Beach County voters who say they’ve been waiting weeks to receive absentee ballots suspect two things: incompetence on the part of Elections Supervisor Susan Bucher; or mischief by a rival political party. A recent printing snafu, that is forcing Bucher to hire workers to copy an estimated 27,000 absentee ballots that can’t be read by tabulation machines, is doing little to instill voter confidence.

But, Bucher insists she is sending out error-free ballots within two days of getting a request. The U.S. Postal Service insists it’s moving them. Why, then, voters ask, haven’t they arrived?

There are numerous ways the system can break down, Stewart said. A voter could give the wrong information; a clerk could make a mistake; the post office could lose a ballot; or any number of problems could arise. “The best evidence suggests that the pipeline that moves mail ballots between voters and election officials is very leaky,” he said.

Even when elections and postal officials manage to move a ballot back and forth, as Reis found out, problems can erupt.

The night the canvassing board — composed of Taylor, Bucher and County Court Judge Caroline Shepherd — rejected Reis’ ballot it tossed five others because signatures didn’t match those on file.

While numbers for recent elections weren’t available, a Palm Beach Post review of the 2004 presidential contest found that 176 absentee ballots were rejected because of signature problems. In a hotly contested state Senate race in August, when 24,000 votes were cast, Bucher said 40 people lost their votes that way.

Reis said she had no idea signatures were checked. “It’s never been a problem,” she said. The signature Bucher has on file was probably one from 1975 when Reis, now 61, registered to vote. Handwriting experts say people’s signatures change dramatically over time.

That’s why Bucher advises people to update their signature card before voting by mail. Her website warns: “If the signatures do not match, your ballot may not be counted.”

While Reis vowed to fight, Bucher said there is nothing she can do. “That was your voting experience,” she said. Chris Cate, spokesman for the Florida Secretary of State, said the only exception is if Reis can prove someone fraudulently voted for her.

Attorney Louis Silber, who represents Reis, said there should be a remedy. In addition to the starkly different views on abortion and contraceptives between Democrat President Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney, voters will decide whether to amend the Florida Constitution to curb abortion rights.

“This is an extremely, extremely important election,” he said. “It’s extremely distressing that this is happening.”

What "getting out the vote" means in Florida.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
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I voted in CA absentee and they were very direct about what can happen.

1. No signature? No vote.
2. If you choose to vote by fax - distinct possibility of no vote.

I had my driver's license in front of me when I signed it and made sure it matched.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
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I voted in CA absentee and they were very direct about what can happen.

1. No signature? No vote.
2. If you choose to vote by fax - distinct possibility of no vote.

I had my driver's license in front of me when I signed it and made sure it matched.

And if they are like FL they can still throw it out at their discretion and don't even have to notify you about it. It wasn't mentioned it in the article, but this woman only knows of her vote being thrown out because someone who knew her was there when it happened and contacted her about it.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
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And if they are like FL they can still throw it out at their discretion and don't even have to notify you about it. It wasn't mentioned it in the article, but this woman only knows of her vote being thrown out because someone who knew her was there when it happened and contacted her about it.

Yes. That's normal. They are not obligated to notify the millions of people that their vote wasn't counted due to their own negligence. There's a certain percentage that never get counted. After the FL fiasco of 2000 it should be clear that lots of people are stupid and don't know how to vote properly. Luckily that election also showed that there is probably a good chance of their being enough oversight since they have representatives from both parties present at these counts.
 
Oct 16, 1999
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Yes. That's normal. They are not obligated to notify the millions of people that their vote wasn't counted due to their own negligence. There's a certain percentage that never get counted. After the FL fiasco of 2000 it should be clear that lots of people are stupid and don't know how to vote properly. Luckily that election also showed that there is probably a good chance of their being enough oversight since they have representatives from both parties present at these counts.

Signing your ballot is voting improperly? And this isn't an issue of what is "normal," it's an issue of what is acceptable. Throwing legitimate votes away, from anyone, is not acceptable.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
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Signing your ballot is voting improperly? And this isn't an issue of what is "normal," it's an issue of what is acceptable. Throwing legitimate votes away, from anyone, is not acceptable.

Maybe I misunderstood but the signatures didn't match.

I agree this can be very annoying when your signature changes like mine. I once got stuck with no money in a 3rd world country since the banks refused to cash my travelers checks. Unfortunately my 9 year old passport had a different signature than my current one. I thought I was going to starve to death. I was furious.

However it isn't unreasonable of them to actually ask that the signatures match.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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In a report published last year, he estimated as many as 21 percent of absentee ballots requested nationwide never are counted. In the 2008 presidential election, 3.9 million of the 35.5 million ballots requested never reached voters. About 2.9 million that were received by voters never made it back to election offices. Another 800,000 were rejected for other reasons, such as signature problems and not being mailed in time.

OMG. People who don't mail in there absentee ballot on time won't be counted. This is obvious voter suppression! :colbert:
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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Signing your ballot is voting improperly? And this isn't an issue of what is "normal," it's an issue of what is acceptable. Throwing legitimate votes away, from anyone, is not acceptable.
So now, you need to tell us your definition of a legitimate vote. Define the criteria that should be used to determine if a vote is legitimate or not.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
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Signing your ballot is voting improperly? And this isn't an issue of what is "normal," it's an issue of what is acceptable. Throwing legitimate votes away, from anyone, is not acceptable.

I wonder why a ballot signed with a signature other than the one on record for the person casting it is thrown out? :confused:

Aren't liberals always claiming that absentee voter fraud is much easier?
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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So now, you need to tell us your definition of a legitimate vote. Define the criteria that should be used to determine if a vote is legitimate or not.

If the vote is cast for obummer, it's obviously legitimate. Otherwise, it's suspect. Duh ;)

This thread is so full of fail. When you vote absentee they have to figure out if the vote is legit or not. One of the ways they do that is to match signatures. If they don't match, the vote isn't counted. Representatives from both parties are a part of that process so it's not like there's one person just sitting there throwing out votes for one party or another. Problem not found, if you don't want to risk that happening, go vote on election day.
 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
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If the vote is case for obummer, it's obviously legitimate. Otherwise, it's suspect. Duh ;)

This thread is so full of fail. When you vote absentee they have to figure out if the vote is legit or not. One of the ways they do that is to match signatures. If they don't match, the vote isn't counted. Representatives from both parties are a part of that process so it's not like there's one person just sitting there throwing out votes for one party or another. Problem not found, if you don't want to risk that happening, go vote on election day.
Hey man, you're putting a hell of a damper on a great case of morning outrage. ;)
 
Oct 16, 1999
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If the vote is cast for obummer, it's obviously legitimate. Otherwise, it's suspect. Duh ;)

This thread is so full of fail. When you vote absentee they have to figure out if the vote is legit or not. One of the ways they do that is to match signatures. If they don't match, the vote isn't counted. Representatives from both parties are a part of that process so it's not like there's one person just sitting there throwing out votes for one party or another. Problem not found, if you don't want to risk that happening, go vote on election day.

Going to vote on election day is exactly what Mrs. Reis is now attempting to do. Either her absentee ballot was legitimate and should be counted, or it was illegitimate and doesn't count, which should allow her to still vote.

Mona Reis and her attorney appeared Monday before the Palm Beach County Canvassing Board, hoping to persuade it to allow her to vote in next Tuesday&#8217;s election since the board threw out her absentee ballot last week. Attorney Louis Silber said Florida law allows a person to vote if their absentee ballot isn&#8217;t returned. Since the three-member board tossed Reis&#8217; absentee ballot because they said the signature didn&#8217;t match the one on file, technically, she hasn&#8217;t voted, he said. &#8220;Hopefully, they care about people voting,&#8221; he said. Elections Supervisor Susan Bucher and state officials said once Reis mailed in her ballot, that was it even though it was rejected. Silber said he and Reis, founder and CEO of Presidential Women&#8217;s Center in West Palm Beach and a well-known abortion rights advocate, are &#8220;giving serious consideration&#8221; to filing a lawsuit if the board doesn&#8217;t acquiesce.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...c-owner-may-sue-if-she-isnt-allowed-to/nSrJK/

I suspect you guys are guilty of exactly what this board is guilty of. Seeing an abortion rights advocate and saying "no vote for you."
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
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It does not surprise me in the least that several of this board's most outspoken conservative members are pro not counting a legitimate vote. A conservative wants to do everything possible to have legal votes suppressed? Color me surprised!
 
Oct 16, 1999
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I also assume these people making these determinations have extensive training in handwriting analysis.

And this part is exceptionally infuriating:
While Reis vowed to fight, Bucher said there is nothing she can do. &#8220;That was your voting experience,&#8221; she said. Chris Cate, spokesman for the Florida Secretary of State, said the only exception is if Reis can prove someone fraudulently voted for her.
Exhibit A: The three person panel validating signatures determined the signature of Mrs. Reis on the ballot did not match the signature of Mrs. Reis on file.

Case closed.
 
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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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It does not surprise me in the least that several of this board's most outspoken conservative members are pro not counting a legitimate vote. A conservative wants to do everything possible to have legal votes suppressed? Color me surprised!

And it doesn't surprise me that liberal apparently want to allow people to fraudulently vote.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
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And it doesn't surprise me that liberal apparently want to allow people to fraudulently vote.

What about her vote was fraudulent? It was a fully legal vote cast by a fully legal voter, yet it got suppressed. Then again, it's a woman so I'm not surprised you're pro removing her right to vote, you're against every other right women have.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
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Wow! The people who proved utterly unable to read a ballot, Florida Democrats, are now actually incapable of even correctly signing their own names!

Clearly we must find some way of making sure these people are steering our nation. Even convicted felons are not so notably representative of our proud Democrat Party as those unable to correctly sign their own names. How dare we demand proof of identity when that is so far above their abilities!

If only we could devise a fool-proof system that combines the timeless wisdom of both convicted felons AND people who are unable to correctly sign their own names, then we'd REALLY be living in the land of milk and honey. Government milk and honey - the best kind.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
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In other breaking news, it turns out that if you vote absentee and mail your ballot too late, your vote will not be counted, and there's nothing you can do!!1!11! Also, if you mail your ballot to the wrong place, your vote will not be counted and there's nothing you can do!!

If this is one of the big problems we have to deal with, we're doing pretty damn good as a country.