ABS - All that necessary?

[Throckmorton]

Remember, ABS reduces flat spotting your tires too. All it takes is one lockup without ABS to need new tires.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I would say that ABS helps, but is far from required. So I put it in the luxury option department. Just like you don't need traction control.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: bruceb

should be standard on all cars.

No it shouldn't be. I have a right to choose exactly what I want on my car and what to spend my money on without government screwing with a free market and forcing me to have something I may not want or need because of public hysteria and ignorance over perceived safety.

That said I like ABS, but it's a choice.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: swbsam

Originally posted by: bruceb
ABS on that model is a $250 option .. Have the dealer check the floor model to be sure it does or does not have it installed.
A quick look at the sticker or under the hood at the brake master cylinder can tell if you have it. If you are ordering the car
new, with buyer selected options, then by all means, add the ABS to the car. I would cancel any buy without ABS as it really
should be standard on all cars. Cheap insurance against problems in Rain, Snow, Ice and Panic stops.

They have another versa in stock, same color with ABS and a few other options for $1,000 more.. I don't really need bluetooth, etc. but I'm going to see if they're willing to split the difference, me paying $500 over my current purchase for the other car with ABS.

Bluetooth is an awesome feature that you won't want to live without once you've tried it. I have it on my BMW and love it.

 

[StageLeft]

Yes I'd get it. Most people have no idea how to pump their brakes properly (myself included) so if you start learning that when it counts (like you're about to nail somebody) good luck. In almost all cases, those without ABS will lock the brakes up. ABS has some arguable proof as to actually reducing accident rates, but I'd not get a car without it now.

seems stats show that ABS does prevent accidents, and significantly in certain circumstances.

Cool, I guess I was out of touch with stats, too. My feeling had been that the stats were just incomplete, kind of like there's no study that prooves eating a lb of rotten cheese a day is bad for me, but I'm pretty sure that if a study properly studied this it would confirm it.

 

[exdeath]

You don't even have to know how to pump brakes without ABS. Instead try not following 5 feet behind someone going 65 mph in the rain and stopping at the last possible second.

But if you doubt ABS works, stand on the brakes in the rain with all your might with and without ABS.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Remember, ABS reduces flat spotting your tires too. All it takes is one lockup without ABS to need new tires.

How long are you locking the breaks up for?

I have a '96 t-bird without ABS and love it, I can pitch it hard in to corners with the brakes and slide through, never once have I had extra vibration. I also slide the rear of my motorcycle alot just for the fun of it, if it isn't more than 10-20ft your aren't going to notice a flat spot. Now if I had bias-ply tires they would get flat spots from not driving them.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: exdeath
You don't even have to know how to pump brakes without ABS. Instead try not following 5 feet behind someone going 65 mph in the rain and stopping at the last possible second.

But if you doubt ABS works, stand on the brakes in the rain with all your might without and without ABS.

How about when you are trying to avoid someone that just cut you off at 40mph? In order not to hit them you have to swerve off the road and to your dismay you cannot avoid hitting construction cones.

The tailgating scenario you listed is even more common, I just had my example happen to me when I started driving. My car didn't have ABS, and as a new driver, I locked up the brakes and couldn't avoid the construction cone and cracked by front bumper.

Anyway, the point is you DO have to know how to modulate the brake pedal in a non ABS car.

With that said, ABS IS the best solution for the majority (read: 99.9%) of people in everyday situations.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: exdeath
You don't even have to know how to pump brakes without ABS. Instead try not following 5 feet behind someone going 65 mph in the rain and stopping at the last possible second.

But if you doubt ABS works, stand on the brakes in the rain with all your might without and without ABS.

How about when you are trying to avoid someone that just cut you off at 40mph? In order not to hit them you have to swerve off the road and to your dismay you cannot avoid hitting construction cones.

The tailgating scenario you listed is even more common, I just had my example happen to me when I started driving. My car didn't have ABS, and as a new driver, I locked up the brakes and couldn't avoid the construction cone and cracked by front bumper.

Anyway, the point is you DO have to know how to modulate the brake pedal in a non ABS car.

With that said, ABS IS the best solution for the majority (read: 99.9%) of people in everyday situations.

So are mandatory 25MPH speed limiters

 

[yelo333]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
ABS helps inexperienced/average drivers greatly in terms of 'shock stop'. People instinctively mash their brakes when faced with a sudden emergency, and this causes them to begin to slide/be unable to turn as their wheels lock. Excellent drivers can actually stop better / evade better without ABS.

This is true, but even an expert driver can't turn in a better-than-ABS stop consistently even under the best circumstances. So while you perhaps can stop better than ABS, good luck doing it

- Every time, and
- When you're in panic mode

Provided you aren't driving on gravel, ABS offers a reasonably good stop every time. Someone without ABS may have the majority of their stops better, but some will be longer.

I'll take a small increase in the mean over a large variance any day.

And yes, OP, I made ABS a requirement when I was car shopping. It came in handy when I thought I was just a thin layer of snow, but there was a sheet of ice under it. Some disagree and I have no problem with them not having it. It's your call.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I stand corrected, I was going on old studies with first gen ABS, seems stats show that ABS does prevent accidents, and significantly in certain circumstances.

ABS only shortens stopping distances on dry or wet pavement. On ice, ABS more than doubles the stopping distance. Snow, gravel, and sand also see increased stopping distances with ABS.

The flip-side is that ABS allows more control in those situations, more often allowing a driver to steer out of an accident, which more than outweighs the lengthened stopping distances in probably 99% of all instances.

That said, I don't personally care for ABS. I've never managed to invoke ABS unless I was deliberately trying to; even in emergency maneuvers I have not caused ABS to engage. To me this would indicate that, for my own driving style, ABS is superfluous.

ZV

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: exdeath
You don't even have to know how to pump brakes without ABS. Instead try not following 5 feet behind someone going 65 mph in the rain and stopping at the last possible second.

But if you doubt ABS works, stand on the brakes in the rain with all your might without and without ABS.

How about when you are trying to avoid someone that just cut you off at 40mph? In order not to hit them you have to swerve off the road and to your dismay you cannot avoid hitting construction cones.

The tailgating scenario you listed is even more common, I just had my example happen to me when I started driving. My car didn't have ABS, and as a new driver, I locked up the brakes and couldn't avoid the construction cone and cracked by front bumper.

Anyway, the point is you DO have to know how to modulate the brake pedal in a non ABS car.

With that said, ABS IS the best solution for the majority (read: 99.9%) of people in everyday situations.

If you don't know or aren't anticipating that someone is about to pull out in front of you, you're not paying attention to begin with.

Also if they are moving at a similar speed, you don't need to go all out on your breaks as if they are stationary; just a little tap and they will pull away.

 

[TackleDummy]

I've been driving a 91 firebird here in NJ for 11 years now without ABS. Commutes to/from work are nerve wracking experiences in bad weather. I swear whenever anything falls from the sky people start slamming on their brakes for no reason and cut people off with reckless abandon. In the 5+ years I've been driving this 42 mile each way commute I've locked up the wheels several times without braking all that hard on wet pavement. ABS is a must on my next car.

I only locked up on dry pavement once for a couple feet during a car accident at highway speeds. I blame pure panic for that one as a car came sliding through the median and into my lane head on.

And anyone who says you should be far enough behind the guy in front of you to brake safely has obviously never driven in NJ where you get cut off if you leave 3 car legnths. Specifically, by an SUV driving soccer mom on her cell phone who then slams on the brakes and you have no idea why because you can't see in front of them. But that's a rant for another time.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: exdeath
You don't even have to know how to pump brakes without ABS. Instead try not following 5 feet behind someone going 65 mph in the rain and stopping at the last possible second.

But if you doubt ABS works, stand on the brakes in the rain with all your might without and without ABS.

How about when you are trying to avoid someone that just cut you off at 40mph? In order not to hit them you have to swerve off the road and to your dismay you cannot avoid hitting construction cones.

The tailgating scenario you listed is even more common, I just had my example happen to me when I started driving. My car didn't have ABS, and as a new driver, I locked up the brakes and couldn't avoid the construction cone and cracked by front bumper.

Anyway, the point is you DO have to know how to modulate the brake pedal in a non ABS car.

With that said, ABS IS the best solution for the majority (read: 99.9%) of people in everyday situations.

If you don't know or aren't anticipating that someone is about to pull out in front of you, you're not paying attention to begin with.

Also if they are moving at a similar speed, you don't need to go all out on your breaks as if they are stationary; just a little tap and they will pull away.

haha... well i'm not a good story teller so you didn't get the situation i was trying to convey.

the other car came from the rear right with at least 10mph speed differential. there is no way you can anticipate or "pay attention" to someone that is out of your line of sight (blind spot) and is about to cut you off, especially if it happens in less than a few seconds. i had to swerve, otherwise he would have hit my front right fender.

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth


So are mandatory 25MPH speed limiters

The speed limit was 45mph, cones were there and dirt was dug up on the side of road. Traffic was moving at 40-45mph. I'm not about to drive 25mph in traffic that is going 20mph faster than me.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
So are mandatory 25MPH speed limiters

The speed limit was 45mph, cones were there and dirt was dug up on the side of road. Traffic was moving at 40-45mph. I'm not about to drive 25mph in traffic that is going 20mph faster than me.

My point being that a 25MPH speed limiter would prevent a lot of accidents and save a lot of lives for 99.9% of people in most cases. But mandating it would be terminally stupid.

 

[zerocool84]

All I know is that ABS helps my car stop like a supercar. If I ever bought a new car, I wouldn't buy one without it.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I can't believe cars are still made that don't come with ABS as standard equipment quite honestly...

As an aspiring sports car driver, you should know that ABS interferes with the ability to perform "on the edge" braking.

Of course, only truly professional race car drivers really know how to brake like that.

As far as ABS is concerned, I think it's kind of overrated. I've never triggered it in my truck (and I've had to panic stop two or three times. The first one pissed me off the most because some douchebag in a firebird came up from behind me, moved over to pass me, cut me off and then slammed on the brakes, just so he could turn into a driveway 10 seconds sooner. We were all going about 50-60mph on this major 4-lane road, as well), and I don't miss it when I drive my Accord 5spd or my mom's Eclipse 5spd.

 

[marincounty]

While I haven't really used ABS while I was driving cars that had that feature, I don't want anything that takes away brake feel.
Do they use it in race cars? I don't think so.
However, I can see that for most drivers it is a plus.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
So are mandatory 25MPH speed limiters

The speed limit was 45mph, cones were there and dirt was dug up on the side of road. Traffic was moving at 40-45mph. I'm not about to drive 25mph in traffic that is going 20mph faster than me.

My point being that a 25MPH speed limiter would prevent a lot of accidents and save a lot of lives for 99.9% of people in most cases. But mandating it would be terminally stupid.

Sorry flew right over my head...

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: exdeath
You don't even have to know how to pump brakes without ABS. Instead try not following 5 feet behind someone going 65 mph in the rain and stopping at the last possible second.

But if you doubt ABS works, stand on the brakes in the rain with all your might without and without ABS.

How about when you are trying to avoid someone that just cut you off at 40mph? In order not to hit them you have to swerve off the road and to your dismay you cannot avoid hitting construction cones.

The tailgating scenario you listed is even more common, I just had my example happen to me when I started driving. My car didn't have ABS, and as a new driver, I locked up the brakes and couldn't avoid the construction cone and cracked by front bumper.

Anyway, the point is you DO have to know how to modulate the brake pedal in a non ABS car.

With that said, ABS IS the best solution for the majority (read: 99.9%) of people in everyday situations.

If you don't know or aren't anticipating that someone is about to pull out in front of you, you're not paying attention to begin with.

Also if they are moving at a similar speed, you don't need to go all out on your breaks as if they are stationary; just a little tap and they will pull away.

You can't ever anticipate everything. People pull out of driveways right in front of you even if you're doing everything right.

I was driving along a road and a delivery truck was coming in the other direction relatively slowly. I was cruising at the 45 mph limit and just as I was about to go past the truck an SUV that had been behind the truck turned across my lane to go down a side street and get around the truck. The SUV driver couldn't see around the truck so she didn't see me coming. I stomped on the brake (wasn't thinking about pumping it, I was just thinking STOP) but skidded and slammed into the SUV. I did nothing wrong, you cannot anticipate a car suddenly swerving right in front of you. The only way I could avoid that type of accident is to pull over to the side of the road every time there was another car coming in the opposite direction because they MIGHT turn in front of me.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: bruceb

should be standard on all cars.

No it shouldn't be. I have a right to choose exactly what I want on my car and what to spend my money on without government screwing with a free market and forcing me to have something I may not want or need because of public hysteria and ignorance over perceived safety.

That said I like ABS, but it's a choice.

Does it bother you knowing that your steering wheel will explode upon impact and a giant pillow will fly up and smash you in the face?

 

[bruceb]

Formula 1 cars did use ABS in the late 80's early 90's .. but around 1996 or so the rules were changed to remove ABS since it was felt that the sport was no longer truly competitive. The F1 committee wanted the drivers to actually do more to keep the car
in control and more competitive. As to the comments about drivers pulling out of driveways, I see it all the time in NJ where some
idiot pulls out into moving traffic, but is then moving like a turtle. A lot of drivers do not realise that when they pull into traffic, that
they should accelerate quickly to properly merge into traffic.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I can't believe cars are still made that don't come with ABS as standard equipment quite honestly...

As an aspiring sports car driver, you should know that ABS interferes with the ability to perform "on the edge" braking.

Of course, only truly professional race car drivers really know how to brake like that.

As far as ABS is concerned, I think it's kind of overrated. I've never triggered it in my truck (and I've had to panic stop two or three times. The first one pissed me off the most because some douchebag in a firebird came up from behind me, moved over to pass me, cut me off and then slammed on the brakes, just so he could turn into a driveway 10 seconds sooner. We were all going about 50-60mph on this major 4-lane road, as well), and I don't miss it when I drive my Accord 5spd or my mom's Eclipse 5spd.

Just because I said that doesn't mean I personally want all my cars equipped with ABS. I was speaking for most of the other morons out there who don't know how to drive...

Show me one Nissan Versa driver that wouldn't benefit from having ABS on his/her car.

 

[Elstupido]

As one who drives almost 8 months out of the year on snowy, icy roads I highly recommend ABS. If I were in a dry climate 12 months out of the year, then ABS becomes less of a factor.

Even at that.....I would still want ABS.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: bruceb

should be standard on all cars.

No it shouldn't be. I have a right to choose exactly what I want on my car and what to spend my money on without government screwing with a free market and forcing me to have something I may not want or need because of public hysteria and ignorance over perceived safety.

That said I like ABS, but it's a choice.

You have a right to drive an older model car that does not have the modern technology's inbedded, if your driving a newer car expect ABS as it's now standard on a lot of models, even base trims.