About to venture into water...

[Aikouka]

So while doing some more parts research and such, I come across pump tops quite a lot but I'm still not entirely sure of their purpose. It looks to me mainly about changing the appearance and sometimes dampening the noise of the pump, is this something I could run the entire system without?

Sure, some of them look (subjectively) prettier than others, but the point of a pump top is to control flow to and from the pump. Some pumps come with a default top, but they're usually pretty basic and include a plastic-based barb, which means you're stuck with that size unless you replace the top.

Currently leaning towards the Swiftech MCP655 PWM variant, hooking it up with a fan controller and just using that to change up the speed of the pump as I see fit.

Just to make sure we're talking the same thing, a fan controller is typically a separate device that adjusts the wattage applied to a device. A PWM device is meant to be connected to a PWM controller, which uses a separate signal to tell the device how fast to run. You don't actually have to buy anything fancy though, because most motherboards have PWM fan headers built into them. They're the 4-pin fan headers instead of the usual 3-pin ones.

 

[smackababy]

Unless you plan on using 1/2 ID tubing, you will need a top or a pump with G1/4 threading, as I believe all D5s coming with 1/2ID plastic "barbs".

I am also not sure how well D5s respond to lowered voltage (as I've always ran mine at full blast). I'd check into that before I get a fan controller to lower it.

 

[Z15CAM]

I elected to run my pumps at a full 12v and PMW the Fans whether it be for the CPU or GPU Loop; whereas, you can set up fan profiles under PMW.

I presently run a Corsair H110 for the CPU and very pleased with it. For the GPU I'm building a Koolance 401x2 with a s single PMP-400 (Equivalent to a Swiftech but without a Rheostat for Voltage control) for an R9 290X with an XSPC Razor (EK-FC=same thing) using an Black Ice 280x60x140mm Rad and Dual Noctia PMW 140 Fans specifically for 1 or 2 x's R9 290X's.

Cost for these items is rather descent now and leaves me room to expand and or have a Backup if the Corsair H110 fails.

This is a follow up to my previous post but wanted to elaborate that Water Systems are designed around what you have and what you may add in the future.

 

[krnmastersgt]

I'm aware of how PWM devices operate, however I also know of (and have played with) a fair number of fan controllers that can feed into the PWM header on the board for information but still let me dynamically adjust the PWM fans manually. Just utilizing it as a way of getting a variable speed pump that I can adjust on the fly as I know the standard MCP655 (or most variable pumps in general) need to be adjust with a screw of some sort on the pump and I'd rather not open it up all the time.

As for tops, do they really help with the flow of the pump itself? I can't see how adding in another device is going to improve the flow of water in a system, in fact shouldn't adding in another component potentially lessen it? And yes all the D5's I've seen come stock with 1/2 barbs but the model I was aiming for is only available on frozencpu and they ship it with a 3/8 adapter as well. Is it recommended I get a top? I wouldn't mind having a top with G1/4 threads so I could just screw in some compression fittings, but I don't especially mind the barb either since I can always hide the pump itself.

Just ordered the tubing, did end up with the Primochill Advanced LRT in bloodshed red, was going to get the retail package but xoxide had them for <$2 a foot which I thought was great till I saw the shipping cost, so then I decided to get some of the fans I'd been looking at as well since at least they don't tax me! Elected for 3 Bitfenix Spectre Pro 120mm for the front 360 rad as they seem to do well in terms of airflow and noise balance, the red led version I'm getting look rather nice too with the option of turning them off via a switch that they apparently come with (or just the fact that they have that feature means I could probably just snip a wire and kill the LEDs without too much work).

Also was wondering since based off the wattage/rad calculation from earlier, if I elected for the GTX 780 combo'd with an oc'd 4770K, I believe a quick rounding would put that around 350W max, so 350/130 = 2.7 meaning that a 360 rad by itself would be sufficient no? On top of that I'm most likely going to go with a thicker rad while the calculation uses more a standard, so a 60-80mm 360 rad should be able to handle the system itself no?

 

[Aikouka]

As for tops, do they really help with the flow of the pump itself? I can't see how adding in another device is going to improve the flow of water in a system, in fact shouldn't adding in another component potentially lessen it? And yes all the D5's I've seen come stock with 1/2 barbs but the model I was aiming for is only available on frozencpu and they ship it with a 3/8 adapter as well. Is it recommended I get a top? I wouldn't mind having a top with G1/4 threads so I could just screw in some compression fittings, but I don't especially mind the barb either since I can always hide the pump itself.

Are you really asking about aftermarket vs. stock? I ask because you need something to hold the pump and channel the water. Some reservoirs (such as bay reservoirs) also do that for you, which means you don't need a top, but in most situations, you will need one. I've never really seen any studies as to which top is less restrictive than another, but I have seen some reviews stating that the pump top in question was more restrictive.

One advantage that you can get with an aftermarket pump top is being able to use two pumps at once in succession. Although, as I mentioned before, this might be problematic if you don't really have enough room for a larger top like that. You can just use two separate tops if you want. In both cases, I normally just prime the first pump and leave the second one unplugged while I'm filling the loop.

Just ordered the tubing, did end up with the Primochill Advanced LRT in bloodshed red, was going to get the retail package but xoxide had them for <$2 a foot which I thought was great till I saw the shipping cost

I'm not sure what shops you've been looking at, but have you considered FrozenCPU or Performance-PCs? There are also coupon codes for both sites -- I believe they're a 5% and 5.5% (respectively). I don't know what they are off the top of my head, but it isn't hard to find them with Google. Anyway, that's who I normally order from, but that might not be the best for you because they're based in New York and Florida (respectively).

Oh, and Amazon does sell some water cooling stuff.

Also was wondering since based off the wattage/rad calculation from earlier, if I elected for the GTX 780 combo'd with an oc'd 4770K, I believe a quick rounding would put that around 350W max, so 350/130 = 2.7 meaning that a 360 rad by itself would be sufficient no? On top of that I'm most likely going to go with a thicker rad while the calculation uses more a standard, so a 60-80mm 360 rad should be able to handle the system itself no?

Given the GTX 780 is rated for 250W (stock), that means you're leaving 100W for an OC'd 4770k. Depending on the voltage, you may go a decent amount higher than that. Although, when it comes to water cooling, a little overkill (as long as the price is right) usually doesn't hurt.

 

[krnmastersgt]

I'm just not really sure what a top is in all honesty, though I may be thinking of a certain section of the fully assembled pumps to just be part of the pump when in reality it's the top I'm thinking of.
Edit: Also wondering if I go with the non-PWM version, I see most fans use a molex connector to power it, do many people (because if get one I'm doing it) strip the connectors and feed the pump into a controller/integrate some controller into it or do most just find that one comfortable balance of flowrate/noise and leave it on that?

I've been looking at mainly FrozenCPU, but Xoxide was a name I remembered from the past and they seemed to be still around, I also do always check Amazon for pricing but not so much for the parts browsing. Actually haven't heard of PerformancePC so will definitely be looking around their site from now on.
Edit: Really liking the pricing on PerformancePC compared to frozencpu already!

 

[smackababy]

I don't think most worry about putting a pump in a controller because it is not the loudest part of the system. Your fans should make more noise than your pump. I can only hear mine start to move water upon system start up and then it falls silent. I have two older D5 models connected via Molex with no regulation. It is running at full blast 100% of the time.

 

[Aikouka]

I'm just not really sure what a top is in all honesty, though I may be thinking of a certain section of the fully assembled pumps to just be part of the pump when in reality it's the top I'm thinking of.

A pump top isn't usually a complicated device, but it's designed to hold the pump and channel the water properly to the pump and from the pump. You've probably seen these before, but here's a topless pump: http://cdn2.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/files/detail1/aquatuning/49092.jpg . Do you need a super, fancy top? Not really. If I remember correctly, FrozenCPU even sells those generic pump tops but with G1/4 threads tapped.

Edit: Also wondering if I go with the non-PWM version, I see most fans use a molex connector to power it, do many people (because if get one I'm doing it) strip the connectors and feed the pump into a controller/integrate some controller into it or do most just find that one comfortable balance of flowrate/noise and leave it on that?

I haven't been terribly pleased with the PWM pump... especially since it doesn't work for me. You can just get a model with a dial that controls the speed... just make sure your pump top gives you access to it.

Edit: Really liking the pricing on PerformancePC compared to frozencpu already!

PerformancePC is nice, but their search feature is not that great. I highly recommend just using Google and just tacking " siteerformance-pcs.com" at the end of what you want to find. You can also search for items on FrozenCPU then type the exact name into PerformancePC's search.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Current planned parts list:
CPU Block: XSPC Raystorm
Pump: Swiftech MCP655
Tubing: (already have) Primochill Advanced LRT 3/8 5/8
Reservoir: Bitspower Water Tank Z 250mm
Radiator: Alphacool Monsta 360mm
Fittings: Monsoon 3/8 5/8 Compression Fittings

GPU Block: Still deciding on card, leaning towards the GTX 780 more currently though.

Aside from the added flash of the cpu block (and probably gpu block) anything else seem like it might be a problem? Recommendations on any changes most welcome.

 

[smackababy]

I would take a good look at the blocks you intent to buy and make sure the compression fittings will work. I know a few CPU and GPU blocks don't have the clearance between G1/4 holes to fit two compression fittings.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Is there a major difference between the d5 variants? I see pricing in a relatively large spread so are some variants considered superior to others or are they roughly the same in terms of flow rate and noise? Any good site to look up benchmarks for this besides maybe martinsliquidlab?

 

[Tweakin]

Current planned parts list:
CPU Block: XSPC Raystorm
Pump: Swiftech MCP655
Tubing: (already have) Primochill Advanced LRT 3/8 5/8
Reservoir: Bitspower Water Tank Z 250mm
Radiator: Alphacool Monsta 360mm
Fittings: Monsoon 3/8 5/8 Compression Fittings

GPU Block: Still deciding on card, leaning towards the GTX 780 more currently though.

Aside from the added flash of the cpu block (and probably gpu block) anything else seem like it might be a problem? Recommendations on any changes most welcome.

I can tell you the RayStorm is a nice piece, and I currently have 3/8" compression fittings installed. Additionally, I'm currently running a i5-4670k under the RayStorm into a XSPC 240 rad, which will then handle dual GTX 780's with the help of a XSPC 420. I always use Yate Loon Fans (low speed) to keep things quiet. As for the res, I just use a small swiftech res mounted above my pump as a feed. Just my thoughts.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Well a few updates since this is going to change how I go about certain things now:
1. Changed the case from the Air 540 over to the Obsidian 750D. While the original location for the Air had space for its wide footprint I have since had to move it around a bit and it's rather obtrusive, a friend was interested in the case as I got it for cheap so sold it off and switched to the 750D. After some more browsing later on however, I feel I would have enjoyed the Phanteks Enthoo Primo a bit more but I do like the styling of the 750D quite a lot, so going to stick with this bad boy.

2. Got myself quite a few new fans, picked up 4 140mm Cougar Vortex fans with the discount Newegg had on them recently and decided to pick up 6 of the Gentle Typhoon AP15s as I've seen them mentioned and highly regarded in pretty much every techy forum with water coolers. I can see why as they move quite a lot of air for the noise they produce, however full speed is still a bit more noise than I'd like (and with 6 in push-pull don't think I need them max rpm).

3. Decided on the card, going to go with a 780 Ti as I can get it for ~$100 more than the 780 through a retail connection, so at that point and the fact that I won't likely upgrade for a while the Ti seems like the best route to go with.

Having some issues with my AX850 currently, switched over to a spare HCG850 while I figure out if this needs to be warrantied or not. I did come across a few questions I would have with the overall layout of the build I have envisioned currently.

1. Will a single D5 be able to drive a loop that consists of a 360 rad (though I might actually be able to adapt to a 420, is that worth it?) and a 280 rad as well as 2 waterblocks and potentially 2 reservoirs (the tubing layout I have planned would have a long stretch of tubing that looks out of place so putting a second res in for looks).

2. I need a suggestion on a good fan controller, I would prefer one that wouldn't have to be mounted anywhere on the case (similar to Linus' Tbalancer) but I don't see those types around much anymore. I don't mind drive bay controllers but it does seriously detract from the sleek brushed aluminum surface of the 750D.

 

[dma0991]

1. A single D5 will get the job done. Add a second pump if you'd like the flow to be faster and adds redundancy in case one pump decides to fail.

2. Bay controllers like the Lamptron FC5v3 has a brushed aluminum front, which should at least blend with the Corsair 750D's front. If you don't mind some difficulty in accessing the controls, you can remove the case's mounting clip and mount the bay controller backwards (the front of the controller faces towards motherboard) with screws.

 

[smackababy]

A single D5 will be fine, however, I would never advise it. I've ran dual pumps for awhile now. I had a pump fail in a single pump loop and it make my PC worthless for the week or so it took to get a new pump and get it installed.

If you have it in the budget, it is worth the extra $100 IMO.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Just finished a new water build with a 750D this weekend. Seriously a great case. Got 360 + 240 rad in there for a 2550k and a 7970 ghz edition.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Can't seem to find any reliable testing done, provided the fans have the SP to actually move air through the rads is a thicker rad with just push or pull better or worse than a slimmer rad with push/pull?

 

[smackababy]

I remember a test a while back, and push / pull really didn't add much of anything. In fact, I remember a sandwich of think rad / fan / thin rad performing worse than a thicker rad in just push. I believe the "extra" thickness rads were not worth the extra cost as well. Just get a standard thickness radiator and go with that. I could be remember this data incorrectly, but I am fairly sure it is how I described.

Also, if you're willing to do some searching, finding a Thermochill PA series would be your best bet; however, you'll have to find them used because they stopped production for some silly reason. You'll also have to fight me for it!

 

[MrK6]

Can't seem to find any reliable testing done, provided the fans have the SP to actually move air through the rads is a thicker rad with just push or pull better or worse than a slimmer rad with push/pull?

Google martinsliquidlab and bundymania if you want some great reviews/testing on watercooling gear. To summarize, your radiator size/thickness trumps all, with few exceptions, and airflow therefore is secondary to that. Being, it doesn't matter how much air you force through a radiator if it can only extract so much heat from the water going through it. Therefore, if your case can fit a thicker radiator, use it. However, that's where the generalization ends as push vs. pull vs. shrouded or not is radiator dependent. GENERALLY, push and pull together is better and shrouded is better, but sometimes the differences are negligible. Some quick reading: http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/15/radiator-shroud-testing-v2/ .

I personally like XSPC RX series as they have great characteristics across a range of airflow: http://www.overclock.net/t/1309645/...riple-radiator-360-roundup-with-22-rads/0_100 . I think they're the true successors to the the Thermochill PA series. You'll notice the RX is consistently in the top and only falls behind <1C once you hit top fan speed (which I prefer not to run my fans at anyway). The RX series are aren't very impeding and will keep your flow rates high.

 

[BrightCandle]

I have a pair of PA 120.3's I no longer use because its 25mm fan spacing. I pulled them out over a year ago but that radiator is still about the best radiator ever made, but its pretty thick. They also don't make them anymore.

Seems to be the way right now in watercooling, the best products are leaving the shelves for good (PA series of radiators, Gentle Typhoon fans, what next?!).

 

[smackababy]

If you ever want to sell those PA 120.3's let me know. I'd gladly take them off your hands.

I don't think Thermochill makes anything anymore. They may have gone out of business, which is awful if so. =(