About the whole mmorpg cheating thing

[Modelworks]

I don't play wow.
What I thought was interesting is the comments by people that used the program mentioned to cheat.
What is it about mmorpg games that makes people pay for things like gold, equipment, bots to play for me ?
I buy a game to enjoy the experience.
If I have to pay so I don't have to play it , what is the point ?

Is it the competitive part of it ?
Why would I pay 40-50.00 for the game, 15.00 a month and then pay more so I don't have to play it ?








http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=52799

Users of the popular World of Warcraft bot Glider, the makers of which are currently being sued by Warcraft developer Blizzard, are being targeted in what is rumored to be the largest wave of bannings yet in the MMO.

MMO Glider enables its users to automatically level characters within World of Warcraft. The program sells for $25, with an optional $5 subscription available that provides additional functionality.

Blizzard sued the makers in February of 2007, and now claims that bot author Michael Donnelly has made $2.8 million from the software.

Hundreds of posts flooded the official Glider forums following the suppression, the freshly-banned cheaters sharing their frustration.

"Is there a way (E.U.) to get unused month of WOW money back? I have paid with credit card 6 months..? Is there a way to get Glider Elite money back?" read the post of one Glider user in a thread titled "I want my money Back!"

Other Glide users repented, encouraging Blizzard in its efforts to free the game from AI influence.

"Blizzard just made the game better by excluding the people who ruin it," said confessed Glider user Sundruid. "I hope people learn from this and stop botting."

 

[msi1337]

I play guild wars...

you pay for the game and incur no more fees. and during christmas last year the first game (prophecies) was only $14.99

 

[Fingolfin269]

Time is the ultimate currency in MMORPGs. Some people have a lot more free time than others and therefore they are rich in these games. On the flip side of that you have people who play the game but are time poor but cash rich relative to the vast majority of time rich players. That's why people pay rl cash for things such as gold.

For the most part there really isn't anything left in WoW worth buying with gold anyway other than epic flying mounts, crafting mats, and repairs. I would say the majority of people who consider buying gold do so for the epic flying mount.

 

[Xavier434]

Chinese gold farming automation? Maybe they are laying off the 12 year olds.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Chinese gold farming automation? Maybe they are laying off the 12 year olds.

Hey at least they are trying.

If they really cared about putting a stop to this they would ban all Chinese players.

Sorry but the truth hurts.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Chinese gold farming automation? Maybe they are laying off the 12 year olds.

Hey at least they are trying.

If they really cared about putting a stop to this they would ban all Chinese players.

Sorry but the truth hurts.

Eh....no.

 

[nefariouscaine]

Originally posted by: msi1337
I play guild wars...

you pay for the game and incur no more fees. and during christmas last year the first game (prophecies) was only $14.99

But I know you bought some gold there buddy .... we both got banned that one time hehe

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Chinese gold farming automation? Maybe they are laying off the 12 year olds.

Hey at least they are trying.

If they really cared about putting a stop to this they would ban all Chinese players.

Sorry but the truth hurts.

There have been attempts at doing this, ie. banning all chinese IPs or accounts based in China. Unfortunately there's just as many ways around this and typically the companies that employ these gold farmers aren't based in China.

A better solution imo is de-emphasizing a currency's importance without making it worthless. I think LOTRO did a really good job of this by making money pretty easy to obtain but also limiting the items you could purchase with gold to mostly crafting items and craftable gear. These crafted items and gear were also easily obtainable by any L50 character with a few hours of camping/farming.

The best gear though was still limited to binding, non-sellable or tradeable items obtained through raiding or questing, but was accessible to everyone who attended.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Chinese gold farming automation? Maybe they are laying off the 12 year olds.

Hey at least they are trying.

If they really cared about putting a stop to this they would ban all Chinese players.

Sorry but the truth hurts.

There have been attempts at doing this, ie. banning all chinese IPs or accounts based in China. Unfortunately there's just as many ways around this and typically the companies that employ these gold farmers aren't based in China.

A better solution imo is de-emphasizing a currency's importance without making it worthless. I think LOTRO did a really good job of this by making money pretty easy to obtain but also limiting the items you could purchase with gold to mostly crafting items and craftable gear. These crafted items and gear were also easily obtainable by any L50 character with a few hours of camping/farming.

The best gear though was still limited to binding, non-sellable or tradeable items obtained through raiding or questing, but was accessible to everyone who attended.

To be honest, I think Blizz has already achieved that goal as much as they can. I haven't had any issues getting gold since TBC's release and it is even easier to get now. I didn't even have to spend any time farming gold for epic flight speed training because the quest rewards for gold were very high once I hit 70 and there are so many quests. Part of the reason for that was I spent a good chunk of my WoW time in 5 mans while leveling but it wasn't too excessive. It did allow me to have many more quests left over once I hit 70 though. I also opted not to buy my way to 375 with my professions. People buy gold because they are really impatient. It's not because gold is hard to get. No matter what Blizz does to the game, there will always be impatient people.

 

[Kabob]

Heh, I saw the title of this and got worried as my Diablo 2 account booted me off this morning (I don't even have a cheat/bot or anything on it!) and gave me some "connection temporarily restricted" message.

I played the demo of WoW but it wasn't for me. I can't justify spending $$ on a game I already own...

But I agree, people will always be impatient. Everyone wants to have "the best" stuff and simply won't take the time to work/play for it. And no matter what Blizz does they won't catch every cheater.

Smartest guy here is the program maker (assuming the lawsuit doesn't stick). $2.8 million for selling the program to a bunch of WoW addicts?

Doesn't matter what the game economy is based off of, it will constantly change no matter what the game is.

When I started playing D2 it was gems (easily found), then it moved to unique rings, then it was only items for items, then back to gems, and now to runes based off of what is readily available.

 

[Eeezee]

The point is that you can't play WoW all the time. Bot programs allow you to level up a character (or just farm loot for converting to gold) while you sleep, eat, etc.

The point is to reduce the grind. WoW is fun, but there are some parts that are pure grind, without a question. I think the bot programs are to let you overcome that. Sometimes you need a LOT of gold for one reason or another, and going around killing mindlessly isn't usually that fun.

And of course there's the competitive nature of the high-end of the game. Some people practically define themselves by being able to earn server-first kills on raid bosses (or game first). Many of these guilds purchase gold to give them a competitive edge. When I played Nihilum was always killing raid bosses first, and they admit freely to buying tons of gold. It costs in-game currency to perform well in these dungeons (potions).

 

[Xavier434]

I really hope the suit does stick because the bread and butter of the defense is something which could act as a loophole for many other games. I hope that developers are paying close attention to this suit so that they patch up their EULA's appropriately.

 

[msi1337]

Originally posted by: nefariouscaine

Originally posted by: msi1337
I play guild wars...

you pay for the game and incur no more fees. and during christmas last year the first game (prophecies) was only $14.99

But I know you bought some gold there buddy .... we both got banned that one time hehe

I didn't say I was innocent of this.

I bought gold for the same reason many other people suggested. I play only 3-4 hours a week and don't have the time to "farm" it to get the good weps, armor, map locations, etc...

I would find myself hard to find a group because they would look at my starter armor and basic wep and say "no thanks"

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Chinese gold farming automation? Maybe they are laying off the 12 year olds.

Hey at least they are trying.

If they really cared about putting a stop to this they would ban all Chinese players.

Sorry but the truth hurts.

There have been attempts at doing this, ie. banning all chinese IPs or accounts based in China. Unfortunately there's just as many ways around this and typically the companies that employ these gold farmers aren't based in China.

A better solution imo is de-emphasizing a currency's importance without making it worthless. I think LOTRO did a really good job of this by making money pretty easy to obtain but also limiting the items you could purchase with gold to mostly crafting items and craftable gear. These crafted items and gear were also easily obtainable by any L50 character with a few hours of camping/farming.

The best gear though was still limited to binding, non-sellable or tradeable items obtained through raiding or questing, but was accessible to everyone who attended.

To be honest, I think Blizz has already achieved that goal as much as they can. I haven't had any issues getting gold since TBC's release and it is even easier to get now. I didn't even have to spend any time farming gold for epic flight speed training because the quest rewards for gold were very high once I hit 70 and there are so many quests. Part of the reason for that was I spent a good chunk of my WoW time in 5 mans while leveling but it wasn't too excessive. It did allow me to have many more quests left over once I hit 70 though. I also opted not to buy my way to 375 with my professions. People buy gold because they are really impatient. It's not because gold is hard to get. No matter what Blizz does to the game, there will always be impatient people.

You could spend the time doing all of those quests to earn the gold for the epic flying mount, or you could pay someone else to do it for you. Different strokes for different folks

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
The point is that you can't play WoW all the time. Bot programs allow you to level up a character (or just farm loot for converting to gold) while you sleep, eat, etc.

The point is to reduce the grind. WoW is fun, but there are some parts that are pure grind, without a question. I think the bot programs are to let you overcome that. Sometimes you need a LOT of gold for one reason or another, and going around killing mindlessly isn't usually that fun.

And of course there's the competitive nature of the high-end of the game. Some people practically define themselves by being able to earn server-first kills on raid bosses (or game first). Many of these guilds purchase gold to give them a competitive edge. When I played Nihilum was always killing raid bosses first, and they admit freely to buying tons of gold. It costs in-game currency to perform well in these dungeons (potions).

Sorry, I don't buy that. Yes, WoW involves somethings that are a grind such as leveling and earning gold but that is part of the game. In fact, it is a cornerstone of the game. The time it takes to do such things is what gives many things in that game value and it is that value which makes the game fun for the vast majority of legit players. Without the value, there is no WoW because everyone would quit out of boredom. Those who use bots contribute to the demise of what makes WoW fun. Fuck those people. I deserve the fun I am paying for. I shouldn't be robbed of that because some asshat found a loophole in their EULA and wanted to make money off of it.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

You could spend the time doing all of those quests to earn the gold for the epic flying mount, or you could pay someone else to do it for you. Different strokes for different folks

But I don't want to do that. I play the game because I enjoy playing the game....what a concept. :roll:

 

[Maleficus]

This is hardly cheating. instead of you sitting in front of your computer for hours on end, you just leave a simple script running.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Maleficus
This is hardly cheating. instead of you sitting in front of your computer for hours on end, you just leave a simple script running.

Boting in WoW is considered cheating and is a bannable offense according to the EULA. The only reason the makers of Glider are getting away with this is because of how it utilizes RAM which is complete bullshit. If the EULA were just slightly modified in wording then this case would be won hands down by Blizz, but the actual changes to the EULA really would be any different as far as the end user is concerned unless they are the type who want this sort of thing to exist.

 

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: Maleficus
This is hardly cheating. instead of you sitting in front of your computer for hours on end, you just leave a simple script running.

Hey, I just found something I agree with you on!
Seriously though, is botting in an MMO any different than playing one? It's still just the hack and slash the same monsters over and over until, after 250 hours of grinding and no fun, you hit max level. FINALLY now you can go raiding or whatever with your buddies, but was it worth the 250 hours of work? No, and that is the exact reason people bot. Grind away with the program while you're at work/school/etc instead of wasting the time yourself. I don't see the big deal here.

 

[msi1337]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme

Originally posted by: Maleficus
This is hardly cheating. instead of you sitting in front of your computer for hours on end, you just leave a simple script running.

Hey, I just found something I agree with you on!
Seriously though, is botting in an MMO any different than playing one? It's still just the hack and slash the same monsters over and over until, after 250 hours of grinding and no fun, you hit max level. FINALLY now you can go raiding or whatever with your buddies, but was it worth the 250 hours of work? No, and that is the exact reason people bot. Grind away with the program while you're at work/school/etc instead of wasting the time yourself. I don't see the big deal here.

and that is exactly why I play Guild Wars and not WoW. I can get from lvl 1 to max level of 20 in 3 hours!

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme

Originally posted by: Maleficus
This is hardly cheating. instead of you sitting in front of your computer for hours on end, you just leave a simple script running.

Hey, I just found something I agree with you on!
Seriously though, is botting in an MMO any different than playing one? It's still just the hack and slash the same monsters over and over until, after 250 hours of grinding and no fun, you hit max level. FINALLY now you can go raiding or whatever with your buddies, but was it worth the 250 hours of work? No, and that is the exact reason people bot. Grind away with the program while you're at work/school/etc instead of wasting the time yourself. I don't see the big deal here.

That doesn't make any sense. Sure, people bot for those reasons but when you consider the number of people who are aware of how to obtain a bot but choose not to do it beyond the reason of risking being banned then you will realize how weak that argument is. Most who feel that way just play another video game which is right thing to do. Doing that satisfies the gamer who hates grinding, but does not harm the gamer who wants to enjoy their mmo without being in any way effected by those players who wish to buy gold or use bots. The big deal that you speak of is the fact that if too many people used bots then it would destroy the fictional values that the game presents the legit players with. Those values play a huge part in terms of how fun the game is for these players. In addition, it's Blizzards game. They have the right to make the rules which govern it.

 

[ayabe]

Well I'm not proud of this but back in the day when I was playing SWG, I was trying to pump up my Combat Medic skills so I had a buddy of mine put his char in my house against the wall and spammed a roll macro(which used endurance) which I could then toss a heal on every few seconds.

Took me only about 2 hours to max all my skills. Well as much as you could with Teras Kasi/Combat Medic, which BTW was absolutely unstoppable in PVP.

Then I quit the game after jedi's came out.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
The point is that you can't play WoW all the time. Bot programs allow you to level up a character (or just farm loot for converting to gold) while you sleep, eat, etc.

The point is to reduce the grind. WoW is fun, but there are some parts that are pure grind, without a question. I think the bot programs are to let you overcome that. Sometimes you need a LOT of gold for one reason or another, and going around killing mindlessly isn't usually that fun.

And of course there's the competitive nature of the high-end of the game. Some people practically define themselves by being able to earn server-first kills on raid bosses (or game first). Many of these guilds purchase gold to give them a competitive edge. When I played Nihilum was always killing raid bosses first, and they admit freely to buying tons of gold. It costs in-game currency to perform well in these dungeons (potions).

That's funny, as WoW's grind level is so tiny compared to other games.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme

Originally posted by: Maleficus
This is hardly cheating. instead of you sitting in front of your computer for hours on end, you just leave a simple script running.

Hey, I just found something I agree with you on!
Seriously though, is botting in an MMO any different than playing one? It's still just the hack and slash the same monsters over and over until, after 250 hours of grinding and no fun, you hit max level. FINALLY now you can go raiding or whatever with your buddies, but was it worth the 250 hours of work? No, and that is the exact reason people bot. Grind away with the program while you're at work/school/etc instead of wasting the time yourself. I don't see the big deal here.

No, it is cheating. If you don't agree with me, go talk to EULA.

Bots are stupid. If you don't have the time to put into a game, then why are you playing it? Also, you reasoning makes no sense. You are supposed to work for those accomplishments, not relax while a script does it for you. That's like saying.

*RPG* Hmm, making my self level 99 with max stats and skills is hardly cheating, as I was gonna get here anyway with a bit of work.

*RTS* Hmm, giving myself max money, the best units, etc is hardly cheating, as I was gonna get them anyway with a bit of work.

*Shooter* Hmm, giving myself the best weapons, full health and mmo, etc is hardly cheating, as I was going to get them anyway with a bit of work.

The work is part of the game. It was put there for a reason. If you can't handle it or "dont have the time", then live with not having the top gear other folks dedicate time to obtaining or simply play another game, preferably a short one without work (I'm looking at you GoW).

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Eeezee

You could spend the time doing all of those quests to earn the gold for the epic flying mount, or you could pay someone else to do it for you. Different strokes for different folks

But I don't want to do that. I play the game because I enjoy playing the game....what a concept. :roll:

But that's *YOU*. And man that's fine. I would love to have time to do all of that but I log in to raid and that's it. I don't have time to go out and farm enough gold to get an epic flying mount. This week I had enough time to go do some dailies which will hopefully account for a month's worth of repair bills.

No, I haven't bought gold and don't plan to do so. But if I did get a wild hair and hit the submit payment button on a site for the cost of an epic flying mount I wouldn't have some type of moral dilemma.