About the dumb 3dfx vs Nvidia debacle....

LudVanB

Member
Aug 26, 2000
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I can't believe that some of you are still at it over this silly subject. Gf2 Ultra rulez...v5 6000 will trounce it with a hand tied behind it back!!!.....Grow the hell up,will ya!

Both cards have merits and posseses different features that make it appealing. The v5 for instance uses glide,which seems to be all important for some old electronic art sports games and everything unreal. Thats great,although on that note i'd like to point out that that unreal2 which is due out next year,will be fully opengl compliant....no more of that d3d crappy port. But then again,many title are still using the current unreal engin(duke4ever will use it if i'm not mistaken),so 3dfx still has its uses,even though its not as state of the art as gf2. Personaly,i don't like the idea of glide games. Common logic should dictate the conception of a game on a universal api...such as d3d or opengl. Glide is a 3dfx-only api and as such,encourages a very harmfull business environement.

But gf is not without its flaws either...some some compatibilitie issue with a few titles,specially on the affor-mentionned games. however,its also somewhat more polyvalent,as it can also be used,at least in part,as a graphic workstation for instance because of its opengl api. Anyone who tried to work on maya with a voodoo3 card will know what i'm talking about.

So it simply comes down to what you want....either a proven,easy to use gaming card that will play everything thats out there or a less compatible but more futur-oriented card that acts as a jack of all trade but master of none....and please stop fighting over who's got the longuest...heummm...well,you know what i mean
 

Aboroth

Senior member
Feb 16, 2000
723
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I browse through these forums every once in a while in hopes of learning something, but I generally hate browsing through most forums because of all of the trolling. Anandtech forums have been somewhat "troll resistant" because of a number of actual smart and knowledgeable people but not completely.

I think people who take their video card that seriously have serious mental issues. Maybe mommy and daddy ignore them, I don't know... :)
 

FearThis

Junior Member
Sep 23, 2000
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I agree with your main point that this whole 3dfx vs. nvidia thing is retarded and that both companies offer great 3D products.

However, I would like to point out that your post failed to mention a couple of very important points.

First, in regards to the 3dfx cards, GLide as an API was introduced at a time when DirectX simply sucked. Ask any developer who was making games from 1996-1998 1/2 which API they would rather be programming for and GLide would win by a land-slide. Since the time that the Voodoo1 appeared on the scene and revolutionized home gaming, Microsoft has slowly been improving DirectX to the point where it is feature-rich, fast, and good-looking. There are still some developers who prefer GLide and especially OpenGL, but DX is now fairly good and has it's place. And since Microsoft is backing it the industry has little choice but to accept it. Bottom line: 3dfx was a pioneer with their hardware and GLide was a means to give developers an easy way to deliver top-notch content to the masses. Without GLide I'd shudder to think how far back we'd still be. In regards to it being an "unfair" business tactic or setting the tone for an unhealthy biz environment, well...I'd have to strongly disagree. GLide's presence pushed the industry FAR faster than it would have moved without it. Microsloth had to get off their butts and actually improve Direct X. Further, 3dfx had every right to make it proprietary...it was part of their biz model to make the 3dfx card line a "gaming platform" unto itself on the PC. Will we see Sega letting Sony integrate Dreamcast support into their PS2? Not hardly. It's called competition and free-market economy and it's what drives companies to outdo each other and offer us, the consumers, better and better products at ever lower prices. Now, with that said, I would agree that at some point...perhaps a year or so ago...it would have benefitted 3dfx to turn GLide into an open API. Once it was clear that DX was taking over, it would have made sense to open it up to other card manufacturers and maybe collect small royalty fees for it's use. It was a sound biz decision to keep GLide exclusive for quite awhile, but the market changed and I believe 3dfx was too slow to respond. So, because of that and the fact that 3dfx hasn't spent any resources upgrading GLide, it WILL most likely die. But won't the last batch of GLide games kick some ass? ;) Can't wait for Duke4.

Now, with all that said, there is something FAR more important than GLide when it comes to current 3dfx products...it's called hardware FSAA. Simply put, this puts the 3dfx Voodoo5 series in a class of it's own when it comes to image quality. Don't pay attention to anyone out there that tells you otherwise...if someone says that it isn't any big deal or that nvidia's version is almost as good, just as good, etc...they are simply talking out of their ass. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE who games with 4X hardware FSAA on a V5 5500 will never be able to go back to gaming without it. All of the hub-bub over 32-bit vs. 16-bit color is a total joke compared to the difference between non-FSAA and (properly done hardware) FSAA. It's that big of a difference. Screen shots and videos online, no matter how good, simply cannot convey how damn cool it is. It completely eliminates pixel popping and texture shimmering as well as getting rid of all jagged edges. Games take on a painted and/or photorealistic quality. My jaw still hits the floor when I play any game with the V5, it's that cool and it makes your gaming experience better than ever.

Now in regards to the GeFORCE line, let me say first that I also like nvidia products. Whereas 3dfx started out by leading the industry, I think nvidia has taken over as the company which is pushing the envelope with more and more features on their cards. 32-bit color, T&L, per-pixel shading, etc.... Now, it can be argued that 32-bit color isn't that big of a difference (it is in some games, not in others), it can be argued that the TNT2/Ultra was really too slow to use it right. But nvidia had it first. It can be argued that T&L is useless except for in demos, which is pretty much true. It can be argued that by the time any games come out which actually use T&L effectively all of the GeFORCE products will be obsolete. Which is also true. It can be argued that per pixel shading is also useless as of now and probably for another 6-9 months. Also true. It can be argued that nvidia hypes useless features to sell product while 3dfx hypes only useful features. Pretty much true. It can be argued that the software-FSAA that nvidia tried to hack into their drivers is slow and very poor quality compared to 3dfx's method and that nvidia has tried to downplay the importance of FSAA b/c they know how good it really is when done right. All true. It can be argued that the GeFORCE line is severely bandwidth limited and therefore does not come close to the fill-rate or real-world numbers that nvidia hypes. Very true. But there is one big thing in favor of nvidia in this argument: they were FIRST in all of these technologies in terms of bringing them to the home user (except hardware FSAA). They may not really be useful YET, but they are pushing the 3D gaming business envelope faster than 3dfx right now. In the end, the most important feature of the nvidia products has nothing to do with 32-bit color, per-pixel shading, or T&L...it's all about the speed baby. Despite being very bandwidth limited the GeFORCE line, especially the GTS Ultra, is BLAZINGLY fast, sometimes exceeding the Voodoo5 by a wide margin in Quake 3. Then again, I think Quake 3 sucks big-time and I don't play it, so to me this does not matter. ;)

To me, it's simple: 3dfx produced the single biggest USEFUL feature on a 3d card to date when they unleashed hardware FSAA on the V5 series. Games simply look beautiful and I'll never go back to gaming without FSAA again. Once you get a video card capable of doing it RIGHT you won't either, trust me. On the other hand, nvidia as a COMPANY has succeeded where 3dfx has recently failed b/c they are managed better and know how to market their products to OEMs, regardless of how useful the feature-sets are to the end-user.

In the end it comes down to this: do you want ultimate image quality or ultimate speed? The image quality king is definitely 3dfx, no contest. If you want balls-to-the-wall speed and play nothing but Quake 3 online all the time then get a GeFORCE.

FearThis
 

HigherGround

Golden Member
Jan 9, 2000
1,827
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LudVanB:
I don't think you've been here long enough to judge the members of this board based on some of the post you see at the top of a few selected forums. Every bbs has zealots and trolls of any kind and graphics and hardware boards are especially susceptible to trolling from more aggressive and opinionated members. The truth is that, this one is one of the best and cleanest boards that deals with hardware/software and technology in general on the www, so enjoy and stop complaining. Nooneis forcing you to participate in the skewed and troll driven discussions.
 

shk

Banned
May 17, 2000
130
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HigherGround, I agree with you totally. I think this site is awesome and most well-mannered members are here, that's why I came to this site and been very helpful when i needed help or suggestions.. I think this is the "best" forum based on my experience in participating this site. Im proud of Anandtech site. As Im sure Higherground agrees I know too that most people have class, well-experienced computer knowledge and are intellegent. I simply think trolls do not belong here. this site must not get polluted by them. Keep em clean :p :p
 

Chuck

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
704
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I've come to the conclusion that none of these 'killer features' actually matter. When people start actually using FSAA for anything useful whatever card I get will have it. When people actually start using T&L for something useful it'll be on all the cards to. We have reached a stage in the graphic card industry where all the cards are fab, and there is no difference between them (apart from a little name tag).
 

RoboTECH

Platinum Member
Jun 16, 2000
2,034
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Chuck, overall I agree with your statement

right now, T&L makes a pretty good difference in Evolva, a bit of difference in MDK2, a VERY VERY slight difference in SoF, and essentially zero difference in all other games.

FSAA makes a HUGE difference in visual quality, but not all games run real well while it's being used.

 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
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The v5 for instance uses glide,which seems to be all important for some old electronic art sports games and everything unreal.

I'm sorry, but a dead-end API like Glide does not justify buying a $300 (or $600) board. The Voodoos will already have problems running Doom 3 because they don't have T&L and bump-mapping, and Carmack says that Doom 3 won't even be playable on a Voodoo 4. The game will run better on a GF2 MX costing half the price of a V5.

Read Carmack's statements here.
 

EMAN

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
1,359
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Seriously if you bought a video card for the future than your a big dumb dumb.


When doom 3 comes and if it kicks major booty than buy a new card. Oh wait I gotta buy it for the future games is kinda lame. Your basically feeding Nvidia's habits of taking all your money every 6 months.
 

RoboTECH

Platinum Member
Jun 16, 2000
2,034
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<< The Voodoos will already have problems running Doom 3 because they don't have T&amp;L and bump-mapping, and Carmack says that Doom 3 won't even be playable on a Voodoo 4. The game will run better on a GF2 MX costing half the price of a V5.
>>



it'll run like crap on every card out today bud. Believe me. Doom is a LOOOOOOONG way off. The only card that *might* be able to play *most* of Doom (With the graphical stuff looking good) out today (almost) is the GTS-U
 

Weyoun

Senior member
Aug 7, 2000
700
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about 3 years ago when q3 had started development, i had a magazine that told me i would need a v2 to run that sucker, so what did i do, being the average, bigger is better, they know best consumer? i went out and bought it, at any cost, even if i only stuck it in a p200. i gardened for 30 hours at 6AM every morning for about 3 weeks for that thing. and what happens when q3test comes out, oh well, better u/g again. you should have seen the look on my mums face...

moral of the story:
if u only wanna run doom 3 and are in the market for a vid card DONT BUY ONE UNTIL THE DAMN GAME IS ACTUALLY OUT!!!!! mark my works, ive been down that path before, and boy did my fingers hurt...
 

RoboTECH

Platinum Member
Jun 16, 2000
2,034
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Weyoun, excellent advice.

That's why, when peeps start going on about T&amp;L and bump mapping and stuff, and criticizing the 5500 for it's &quot;lack of featuers&quot;, I say BOLLOX!!!! :)

I'll change my $hit when a game compels me to. NOT BEFOREHAND!!!
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
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I'll change my $hit when a game compels me to. NOT BEFOREHAND!!!

But then somebody else turns around and starts going on about how often they replace their video cards. It's these sorts of inconsistent arguments which are constantly being thrown around.

Think about this: two boards cost the same amount and one has more features and better perfomance. Which would you buy? There is nothing &quot;dumb&quot; about the debate. Its a simple matter of picking a video card that will give you the best value for money for the longest period of time.

There are two extremes to any argument. One extreme is a new video card every three months, and the other every three years. The trick is to find a nice balance.
 

Weyoun

Senior member
Aug 7, 2000
700
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right on RoboTECH!! I have realised recently that the v5.5k isnt such a bad board after all, it gives kick ar$e fsaa, nice performance and an debatabley decent feature set, although i still dont like 3dfx's 'engineer's' approach to it.

a feature set SHOULD be considered, but only if the features are actually useful. T&amp;L is, to a degree, useful, as we are seeing some T&amp;L titles coming up now and no doubt even more in the last few months of this year. I would cann that useful, but not quite as useful as nvidia's pr would like you to think. another reason why i went down nVidia's path was the per pixel shading capabilities of it. although there are no games NOW that utilise this, ive started coding in openGL and those demo's sure look good. I'd also like to start learning about them a good few months earlier. This feature MIGHT also show itself to be useful, although it's no justification for one card over the other. So what has nVidia got in features over 3dfx? 3 months - and that's still a gamble.

BFG10K:
I would buy the card which overall was better for me, and yes, if only performance and features were involved, i sure would buy the one with the better performance. as i showed before, a feature set IS NOT as credible as it seems. There are also other things to consider, like image quality, driver reliability and stability, etc, etc...

A feature set, however has the nasty 'vicious circle' biting itself on the rear end. developers won't include a feature in a game if 99% of the target audience cant use it: it's just not worth the development time. On the other hand, consumers won't buy the vid card until the game support it. It's time for one to break this, and personally i think it's the video card manufacturer's call. software developers have a full enough schedule as it is, and chip makers, in my opinion, could sacrifice maybe another month off their cycle to put on all the features. Im pretty damn sure developers would be encouraged to implement these...

and for gods sake, DONT BUY 'FUTURE PROOF' PRODUCTS!!!! you know why gambling exists? because it's all about CHANCE!! funilly enough, the same applies for video cards, but you'll almost always end up losing. i dont know of 1 chip that has been produced so far that provides all the features that were features on competing solutions in the next generation...

Just my $0.04 (damn australian exchange rate)
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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I have realised recently that the v5.5k isnt such a bad board after all, it gives kick ar$e fsaa, nice performance and an debatabley decent feature set, although i still dont like 3dfx's 'engineer's' approach to it.

I think the price/perfomance ratio isn't very good. If it was $200 it would be much better. However the V5 6000 is crap.

T&amp;L is, to a degree, useful, as we are seeing some T&amp;L titles coming up now and no doubt even more in the last few months of this year. I would cann that useful, but not quite as useful as nvidia's pr would like you to think.

Well think about this: there are three major video card companies active at this time. Two of them support T&amp;L while the other one doesn't. If you were a game manufacturer in the process of writing your game, would you pick T&amp;L given two out of three of the major boards support it (not to mention the MX flooding the mainstream market) and given the obvious benefits of it? I certainly would. In that way I don't see T&amp;L as a gamble at all.

Not to mention the dozens of games which are in developement as we speak and will support T&amp;L. And lets not forget Carmack and Sweeney, arguably the most influential 3D programers in the industry.

On the other hand I do see 3dfx's FSAA/T buffer as a gamble which has failed. I have never seen or heard of a game developer talking about FSAA or the T buffer.

I would buy the card which overall was better for me, and yes, if only performance and features were involved, i sure would buy the one with the better performance. as i showed before, a feature set IS NOT as credible as it seems. There are also other things to consider, like image quality, driver reliability and stability

True, but there is no denying that the V4/V5 boards have the least amount of features and the lowest price/performance ratios of all of the new boards.

A feature set, however has the nasty 'vicious circle' biting itself on the rear end. developers won't include a feature in a game if 99% of the target audience cant use it:

As I said before about T&amp;L, I think this feature is is certainly going to be very useful and is in no way considered to be a gamble anymore.

and for gods sake, DONT BUY 'FUTURE PROOF' PRODUCTS!!!! you know why gambling exists? because it's all about CHANCE!!

There are degrees of &quot;future proof&quot;. I would say the GF based boards and the Radeon are more future proof than the V5. This is exactly the same as the TNT2 being more &quot;future proof&quot; than the Voodoo 3. Both were caused by 3dfx's lack of insight as to what is &quot;needed&quot;.

i dont know of 1 chip that has been produced so far that provides all the features that were features on competing solutions in the next generation...

The original GeForce is certainly still a good card. I would say this is the card you are looking for in terms of being the most &quot;future proof.&quot; This board is 1 - 1.5 years old and is still considered to be a very good board.
 

EMAN

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
1,359
0
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There are degrees of &quot;future proof&quot;. I would say the GF based boards and the Radeon are more future proof than the V5. This is exactly the same as the TNT2 being more &quot;future proof&quot; than the Voodoo 3. Both were caused by 3dfx's lack of insight as to what is &quot;needed&quot;.

TNT 2 future proof??? hahahahaha Give me a break... Why is it that everybody in the Sales forums are always looking for Voodoo 3 instead of TNT 2? Since TNT 2 is future proof they should be all looking for tnt 2. I see your logic but it's not just about having more features. It really isn't... You'll notice that voodoo 3 and tnt 2 are slowing down and they are about equal in performance but with voodoo you get

1. Easy installation
2. Complete driver stability with all games
3. Cheaper price
4. Faster performance with glide abled games
6. Better 2D
7. Really nice 16 bit colors

By the time your next generations of games come out vooodoo 3 and TnT 2 will be slow as a turtle. That's a fact because it just doesn't have enough juice. It'll be the same way with your Radeon, Voodoo 5, and GTS. Sure T&amp;L will give you extra performance but than you don't have enough fill rate or memory bandwidth to go with that GPU. If they use more light sources than your GTS or Radeon can offer, than your screwed.

You get my drift...

-----------

BFG10K, so when is DOOM coming out???

Are you going to use that GTS when Doom comes out??? please gimme a break...

How do you know GTS will even be able to run DOOM completely smooth???

Can you tell me how many games that actually benefit so much from T&amp;L???
I know MDK 2 and that's about it. Others do T&amp;L very small margin or none at all.


Halo is the game to watch for and it's seriously gonna make quake 3 and all of it's siblings look terrible.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
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Carmack makes good engines but he makes bad games Personally I like Halflife and Unreal Tournament.

I fail to see the relevance of your gaming tastes in this discussion. What you like doesn't have anything to do with T&amp;L.
 

Weyoun

Senior member
Aug 7, 2000
700
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contrary to maybe your opinion BFG, i NEVER said T&amp;L wasnt useful. I actually said &quot;T&amp;L is, to a degree, useful, as we are seeing some T&amp;L titles coming up now and no doubt even more in the last few months of this year. I would call that useful, but not quite as useful as nvidia's pr would like you to think&quot; with spelling corrected where due. Go and get a few T&amp;L demos from nVidia's page and listen to the sweet, nuclear family commentary. After, i could guarantee you wouldnt be able to live without T&amp;L. I would like to see a series of developments to the T&amp;L engines of all cards, mainly being able to support dynamic geometry. I wouldnt prefer the Voodoo5.5k over the nVidia range, but you CANNOT deny that it's a fast board with okay features. Personally, I went for a Geforce2 MX and I have been extremely happy :)

I know the v5.5k doesnt possess these features, but how many games do you play that use per-pixel lighting? It's fine to have a card without the features while it's not needed, but missing out that generation is what made their missing features really hurt. by the time the Geforce came out with some other nice features, games had sunk into 32bit colour, larger textures, etc, etc.... honestly, that's the only thing you have to be careful about when skipping unused features. MAKE SURE YOU DON'T MISS A GENERATION!! what i was referring to however, is buying a card just based on 'future' features, not necessarily the geforce.

and finally, the only reason the geforce is still a competing solution, is because no one offered a competing solution. nVidia could then get away with a non rock-solid product, and IMHO, would have produced a FAR better board if 3dfx wasnt a pack of slack gits....
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
16,968
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I am starting to think that BFG2K and Hardware were separated at birth. ;)

Don't hold your breath, EMAN. BFG just usually likes to spout his crap, with little regard to accuracy or even rationality.

No, BFG won't be using his GTS to play Doom3, as he doesn't have one. Nor does he have any experience with a V5. Yet it baffles me, as to why he thinks he can comment as if he's an expert.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... Just because you read a couple benchmarks, hardly makes you an expert at these things. And there's much more to gaming life, than benchmarks.

&quot;However the V5 6000 is crap&quot;
Hey, when did you get your V5-6000? Please expand more on your experience with this piece of hardware, as I'm very curious.

&quot;I have never seen or heard of a game developer talking about FSAA &quot;
Funny... I use FSAA every day. How often do you use T&amp;L or pixel shading?

&quot;What you like doesn't have anything to do with T&amp;L&quot;
The h*ll it doesn't... If you don't like any of the very limited amount of games that support T&amp;L, then that feature is useless to you. Btw, Halo won't be out for like another year, and Doom3 won't be out for a couple.

&quot;The game (Doom3) will run better on a GF2 MX costing half the price of a V5.&quot;
Wow, you've already got an advance copy of Doom3 also! Sweet. Hey, since you are into predicting the future, suppose you can throw out the winner in this year's Super Bowl?

Dude, exactly what did 3dfx do to you, that you feel you need to bash them in just about every one of your posts?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,723
6,285
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Yea, I was puzzled by BFG's FSAA comment, seeing as how software implementation is unecessary, if even possible. From what I've gleened off the net, there isn't a videocard available today that will run Doom3. I also agree that buying for the future is a real crapshoot, how many people were burnt by upgrading from P 166 to P 166mmx or Savage4 with the Metal API(awesome API with one real use, UT/Unreal based games). The term &quot;future proof&quot; is an oxymoron.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
126
TNT 2 future proof??? hahahahaha Give me a break
1. Easy installation
2. Complete driver stability with all games
3. Cheaper price
4. Faster performance with glide abled games
6. Better 2D
7. Really nice 16 bit colors


My friend has TNT2 and I have to say it's a very nice card. He runs resolutions of 1280 * 1024 in 2D and the image quality is very good. He hasn't had any stability or compatibility issues and all his games run really well.

1: I agree, as with the TNT2.
2: I would give this to the TNT2. He has never had trouble with games. In fact I used to bring my games over to test his board when my V3 had problems with them. nVidia's drivers, especially their OpenGL driver, are faster and more compatible. I also tested out what 32 bit colour looks like. It makes a big difference.
3: Yes but remember the abysmal 3D image quality.
4: Yes but I don't really care about a dead end API.
5: What happened to number 5?
6: His 2D is as good or slightly better than mine.
7: 16 bit colour is crap. It doesn't matter what you run it on, it is absolutely horrible. Sure the V3 may have slightly better 16 bit colour but it is still ugly as hell when compared to 32 bit colour.

contrary to maybe your opinion BFG, i NEVER said T&amp;L wasnt useful.

That's cool Weyoun. I am not trying to argue, just have a discussion. In fact 90% of the time I agree with your comments. :)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... Just because you read a couple benchmarks, hardly makes you an expert at these things. And there's much more to gaming life, than benchmarks.

Neither does buying the board and installing it.

Hey, when did you get your V5-6000? Please expand more on your experience with this piece of hardware, as I'm very curious.

Why don't you get a RagePro then? After all you can't know its crap until you try it, right? Why even bother with benchmarks and reviews at all? Everyone should just buy every single board out there! :confused:

Funny... I use FSAA every day.

Are you a game developer?

Wow, you've already got an advance copy of Doom3 also! Sweet. Hey, since you are into predicting the future, suppose you can throw out the winner in this year's Super Bowl?

Did you even read Carmack's statements? Wait don't tell me: Carmack can't comment because he hasn't tried all of the boards yet, right?

You have a real problem with benchmarks and reviews. I really fail to see how you possibly decide what to buy. Are you just one of those rich kids who just buys everything off the shelf or something?

Dude, exactly what did 3dfx do to you, that you feel you need to bash them in just about every one of your posts?

I had the choice of going with a TNT2 but instead picked a V3 based on the zombies' recommendations. All I eneded up getting was appaling 3D quality and slow drivers.

Yea, I was puzzled by BFG's FSAA comment, seeing as how software implementation is unecessary, if even possible

No I don't mean software rendering, what I mean is that I have never heard a developer say &quot;buy a V5 because FSAA looks really good in our game.&quot;
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
16,968
2
0
Oh jeez... here we go again.

Look, I'm no longer going to go back and forth with somebody who is so irrational. You have no experience with the newest 3dfx line, yet you bash it consistantly.

So what if the V3 isn't all you expected. What has that got to do with the V5? The Riva128zx sucked compared to the 3dfx line. Should I say nVidia sucks, every chance I get?

When I chose my newest video card, it was a tough decision between the Elsa GTS and the V5-5500. I took a lot of things into consideration, a lot more than benchmarks. Stability, compatibility, features, speed... to name a few.

But mostly I considered which games I play the most, and which I saw myself playing in the near future. Among those were UT, NFS5, Deus Ex. And my most anticipated game is Duke Nukem Forever. It's a fact that UT and Deus Ex run better on a 3dfx offering. And 3dRealms has already stated that DNF will run better on a 3dfx card.

3dMark scores, Q3 scores had very little impact on my decision. One that I don't regret for a second.
 

EMAN

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
1,359
0
0
BFG10K, you're not that bright are you?

My friend has TNT2 and I have to say it's a very nice card. He runs resolutions of 1280 * 1024 in 2D and the image quality is very good. He hasn't had any stability or compatibility issues and all his games run really well.

As far as I know voodoo 3 2D is better than TNT 2, you know why because I had a tnt 2 ultra

1: I agree, as with the TNT2.

But you just told us you don't have tnt2, how do you know? You just like to speak out of your ass. I've tried a tnt 2 and I know what it's like. IRQ conflicts and motherboard conflicts up the a$$

2: I would give this to the TNT2. He has never had trouble with games. In fact I used to bring my games over to test his board when my V3 had problems with them. nVidia's drivers, especially their OpenGL driver, are faster and more compatible. I also tested out what 32 bit colour looks like. It makes a big difference.

Are you sure you got a voodoo 3? I have never had a problem with voodoo 3 and I know what it's like to have tnt2, constantly changing drivers around just to play different games.

3: Yes but remember the abysmal 3D image quality.

What 3d image quality? If you tried running @ 16 bit color it's crap compared to voodoo. If you try 32bit color it craws.

4: Yes but I don't really care about a dead end API.

Dead, I don't know about you but it's not dead yet. Lot of sports games still use it if you have voodoo 3 and Dues Ex recently release and so will Duke Nukem Forever.

5: What happened to number 5?

It was late at night and I was halucinating ;)

6: His 2D is as good or slightly better than mine.

Um, bullsh!t

7: 16 bit colour is crap. It doesn't matter what you run it on, it is absolutely horrible. Sure the V3 may have slightly better 16 bit colour but it is still ugly as hell when compared to 32 bit colour.

Yes 32 bit color is good if you really want to play @ 640x480 with the tnt2 than it's you but I rather play 800x600 or 1024x768 with the 22bit filter system voodoo uses.


Why don't you get a RagePro then? After all you can't know its crap until you try it, right? Why even bother with benchmarks and reviews at all? Everyone should just buy every single board out there!

Ragepro and voodoo 5 6000 is another whole different ball park, why you ask. Voodoo 5 6000 will be able to play games @ 1600x1200 32 bit colors or 1024x768 32 bit 4xFSAA. Yeah that's crap oh right....{sarcasm}


Are you a game developer?

He uses FSAA because his vid card allow him to use it all the time if he wants.


Did you even read Carmack's statements? Wait don't tell me: Carmack can't comment because he hasn't tried all of the boards yet, right?

Look Mr. Dumb, Doom 3 will be using 30x overdraw and by todays standards even GeforceUltra won't be able to run it correctly. Today's games use like 4x overdraw. Do you see where I'm going at.

You have a real problem with benchmarks and reviews. I really fail to see how you possibly decide what to buy. Are you just one of those rich kids who just buys everything off the shelf or something?

Sure if you like synthetic benchmarks like 3dmark2000 and a mindless quake 3 shooting. Then it's all you. I really don't buy anything based on web site reviews. I make my own decisions. I usually try out the card for couple weeks and then if I don't like I exchange for the other.

I had the choice of going with a TNT2 but instead picked a V3 based on the zombies' recommendations. All I eneded up getting was appaling 3D quality and slow drivers.

There, you admit that it's your fault. Why don't you just slap yourself for listening to zombies, you should of made your own decision. What can I say you have no brains of your own. You babble what other web sites has to say and just talk trash.


No I don't mean software rendering, what I mean is that I have never heard a developer say &quot;buy a V5 because FSAA looks really good in our game.&quot;

Why it sure does look nice without any jaggies. I've had a voodoo 5 for a week and I do like the card but can't justify the price tag.

I would definitely get Geforce 2 if they fixed the texture compression
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
&quot;It's a fact that UT and Deus Ex run better on a 3dfx offering. And 3dRealms has already stated that DNF will run better on a 3dfx card.&quot;

UT runs and looks much better on a nVidia or ATi board if you apply the proper patches.