About Nintendo and the generation after their next console on terms of SoC/Processor

[DZero]

Hi guys,

I know that might not belong on this subforum, but I realized... the current generation of Nintendo is about to end with their Switch.

But then we saw that the specs of said console was:

CPU	ARM 4 Cortex-A57 cores @ 1.02 GHz (boost of 1.785 GHz)
Memory	4 GB LPDDR4 @ 1,331/1,600 MHz

GPU wise

256 Maxwell-based CUDA cores

• Undocked: 307 MHz, 236 GFLOPS
• Docked: 768 MHz, 393 GFLOPS

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Switch#Hardware

CPU wise only uses 4 A57 cores and GPU wise has the performance of the GPU of the iPhone 8.

I know that the next generation according to the leaks is about to use:

CPU: Tegra T239 (8x A78AE unknown clock speed, possibly 1.8 Ghz)
GPU: RTX 2050 4GB GDDR6
Memory: 12 GB LPDDR5

Source: Notebookcheck

Now I was thinking... what might be the SoC used for the next gen after that? I know that for now it will be unknown, but I am thinking... since the platform is ARM, the piracy on the Switch and potentially the succesor are pretty much easier than expecting. And to make it "better" the newest processors (D9300 and SD 8 Elite onwards) are likely to be an 8 core out of order cores with the CPU performance better than the current ones we have.

And even more GPU wise both Adreno and Mali are starting to be more and more competitive. If we see the Adreno 8 Elite is near the brute performance of the Radeon 880M! And is likely that with some optimizations will start to catch NIntendo's GPU up in 2 or 3 generations making the emulation possible.

So, what Nintendo might do this time? Closing webpages and discord groups is not an easy task and also the Deep Web might play a protagonism there.

What leads to this thread and an idea I came on my head. Considering the advancement of RISC-V in which on an unoptimized processor starts to run some actual games with the choppyness we know:

What might happen with a pretty much optimized SoC (octa core) with a nVIDIA GPU (maybe on tier of RTX 4600 or better by that time), Nintendo starts to make their own iteration of RISC-V CPU? of course is personalized to be hard to be pirated and emulated and easy to code and port. Maybe it will take at least 5 years to get some news, but it could be an interesting move from NIntendo to be a completely closed console ala Apple with their own ARM cpu iteration?

What could be their advantages or potential risks? I ask this on this thread since I want the opinions of the experts here since I want to see how viable that idea might be.

Thanks for the wall of text and greetings

 

[jpiniero]

The Switch 2 GPU specs are likely lower than the 2050 mobile.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

The specs are
Nvidia Tegra T239 Drake | Gimle motherboard | Switch 2 codename Ounce :

8x Cortex A78C (Single Cluster) ??? GHz

1GPC/6TPCs/12SMs/1536 CUDA Cores/12 RT Cores/48 Tensor Cores integrated Nvidia Ampere GPU IP ??? MHz/GHz

Custom hardware for File Decompression Storage for LZ4 format

Orin T234 OFA and Media Block (AV1 Decode and Encode support)

128-bit LPDDR5X memory controller with 12GB of 7500 MT/s RAM

eUFS 3.1 256GB Storage

---

1536 CUDA Cores@1GHz = 3 TFLOPs FP32

 

[NTMBK]

Leaving ARM would mean giving up a whole ecosystem of high quality tools. Nintendo/Nvidia can benefit from all the work done on ARM compilers, profilers, debuggers, etc over the years, and the RISC-V ecosystem is nowhere close. Poor tools/ecosystem was one of the biggest problems for developers on the Wii U, with its outdated PowerPC CPU.

The only way I see this happening is if Nvidia makes a massive investment in RISC-V over the next 5 years. I can see them not wanting to share big AI profits with ARM for much longer, and switching to a custom CPU architecture would let them cut ARM out. But Nintendo alone aren't big enough to make it happen.

 

[jpiniero]

With the reports of Samsung cutting production on it's newer nodes, I almost have to think that makes it even more likely that the Switch 2 will indeed use SS8.

 

[Eug]

Just release the damn Switch 2 already, Nintendo!

 

[static shock]

Is the good and cheap!

Hardware is decent for a portable, it just don't use newgen hardware because is aimed at a popular price!

 

[jpiniero]

https://videocardz.com/newz/nintendo-switch-2-motherboard-with-nvidia-soc-leaks-out

Switch 2 board leaks. The chip package looks far too big to be anything other than Samsung 8 nm.

 

[soresu]

I can see them not wanting to share big AI profits with ARM for much longer

Most of their AI profits are in those discrete modules with the mezzanine connectors that sit on the base/motherboard more like a CPU, usually with HBM stacks instead of GDDR.

 

[DZero]

https://videocardz.com/newz/nintendo-switch-2-motherboard-with-nvidia-soc-leaks-out

Switch 2 board leaks. The chip package looks far too big to be anything other than Samsung 8 nm.

OH BOY! And maybe the Snapdragon 8 Elite might emulate the Switch 2 in most games?

 

[poke01]

OH BOY! And maybe the Snapdragon 8 Elite might emulate the Switch 2 in most games?

nope, weak and less featured GPU.

 

[gdansk]

nope, weak and less featured GPU.

It isn't that weak. Probably 50% more compute, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if shader recomp and HLE worked reasonably well. Of course, Nintendo has bogus legal interference to prevent this from developing.

 

[Panino Manino]

SoC doesn't matter.
The most important piece of hardware is game cartridges.

 

[jpiniero]

Here's a new video about the Switch 2's board. Says the SoC is 207 mm2. That's pretty big and confirms more or less it's on Samsung 8 nm.

By comparison the PS5 Slim's SoC is 260.

 

[Panino Manino]

Here's a new video about the Switch 2's board. Says the SoC is 207 mm2. That's pretty big and confirms more or less it's on Samsung 8 nm.

By comparison the PS5 Slim's SoC is 260.

That the actual Switch 2 SOC?

 

[DZero]

Aparently is made by Samsung 8nm or even 10nm... ths is weird, totally weird.

Funny story going from 900Mhz on docked and 1.1Ghz on normal mode indicates that is constrained, A78 is hella power efficient, even going octa.

Then the GPU has the performance of a GTX 1050Ti docked. But in portable mode goes to the performance of the GTX 750Ti

And interesting enough... with the portable performance the SD 8 Elite can attempt to emulate Switch 2 (no 60 FPS of course) with sheer power... D9400 can do it too. And optimized only the 8s Gen 4 can enter on the discussion.
About the rest... good luck.

 

[jpiniero]

Aparently is made by Samsung 8nm or even 10nm... ths is weird, totally weird.

Not really. It's based upon the Tegra Orin. It taping out in 2021 sounds about right.

 

[DZero]

Not really. It's based upon the Tegra Orin. It taping out in 2021 sounds about right.

Indeed, 8nm is not that weird, but 10nm is a weird choice I mean.

Meanwhile... I saw the CPU performance... I need to correct it...

Processors from mobile that can emulate:

Brute Force:
Snapdragon 8 Elite, Dimensity 9400, Dimensity 9300

Optimized:
Snapdragon 8s Gen 4, Dimensity 8400 (very low performance)

And if Exynos 2500 enters (possible with S25 FE or even the Galaxy Tabs), it could be interesting how performs.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Nvidia and Nintendo both need their share of the margin I suppose.

Sell 5 year old low end hardware and jack up the price of everything at the same time...

 

[blckgrffn]

Nvidia and Nintendo both need their share of the margin I suppose.

Sell 5 year old low end hardware and jack up the price of everything at the same time...

I was pretty disappointed when I figured out the Switch 2 plan. It’s nearly insta potato. First party games will be awesome, of course, but hardware constrained almost immediately. 3rd party ports will be a lot better for at least the first couple years, but then it’ll be real consoles for real games especially post PS6 launch.

I didn’t expect the moon but something truly north of the Steam Deck would have been great, exciting and imo extremely plausible.

Even the same design on TSMC 6nm or a newer “launch partner” Samsung node would have netted a great reduction in power usage keeping everything else the same. It’s hard to argue with even better battery life and reduced heat.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I was pretty disappointed when I figured out the Switch 2 plan. It’s nearly insta potato. First party games will be awesome, of course, but hardware constrained almost immediately. 3rd party ports will be a lot better for at least the first couple years, but then it’ll be real consoles for real games especially post PS6 launch.

I didn’t expect the moon but something truly north of the Steam Deck would have been great, exciting and imo extremely plausible.

Even the same design on TSMC 6nm or a newer “launch partner” Samsung node would have netted a great reduction in power usage keeping everything else the same. It’s hard to argue with even better battery life and reduced heat.

- TBF TSMC is probably supply constrained out the wazoo at this point for a high volume part like the Switch. Sourcing Samsung basically means Nintendo more or less has the fab capacity to itself (with Samsung itself being the only other major customer). Ampere being designed for Samsung node likely makes the whole process cheaper and more predictable as well.

That doesn't absolve Nintendo/Nvidia for the specs of the hardware as well as the increasingly absurd pricing, but I sort of get their logic from a logistics perspective.

 

[DZero]

Nvidia and Nintendo both need their share of the margin I suppose.

Sell 5 year old low end hardware and jack up the price of everything at the same time...

Even worse if the Snapdragon 8 Elite might be able to emulate it

 

[blckgrffn]

That doesn't absolve Nintendo/Nvidia for the specs of the hardware as well as the increasingly absurd pricing, but I sort of get their logic from a logistics perspective.

Yeah, I get it. I still think its dreadfully underwhelming and that along with not committing to 16GB of ram like the now contemporary consoles is going to be a drag on the back half of the life of this particular console.

I think even getting to generally underwhelming Samsung "current" node would have been worth it. Putting our investor cap on, its likely it could have provided slightly better performance with better thermals and lower power usage and then Nintendo could have shipped a smaller battery, Apple style. That could have offset the upfront price of moving to a "better" node... or something. Bleh. So they got a great deal on the first 2-3 years of SoC chips, that doesn't do much for me.

They may really rue the fact they didn't launch this a year ago when they could have had a cleaner ramp up and healthier consumer base to sell into. There is no way this SoC held them back in that regard.

 

[Mopetar]

The specs aren't that bad. It has more GPU cores than a PS4 so even though the clock speeds may not be as high, it'll still manage acceptable graphics, particularly for a handheld. When docked it can clock higher and deliver similar quality. Nintendo has never needed a lot of GPU horse power to deliver gorgeous looking games, but they'll have significantly more than with the original Switch.

If they back ported more recent DLSS technologies it can probably render at 720p and upscale the image without it being a problem. Since there's only one hardware platform for the Switch 2 the developers can even tune specifically around that since they don't need to worry about the game running with any other graphics setting.

Samsung 8nm makes a lot of sense. The SoC could be smaller on a TSMC node, but Nintendo based their choice on cost per mm^2 and performance per dollar over anything else. Samsung also has designs on that node so it cuts down on the cost to layout and verify the chip as well.

Comparisons to desktop GPUs are somewhat flawed. A large benefit of console development is the single hardware platform for exclusive games and being a lot closer to the metal. Launch titles won't have the hardware fully figured out, but over the lifespan of the console, developers will be able to make some impressive titles. There are PS3 games that look as good as many modern games because the developers figured out how to squeeze every bit of performance out of that hardware and could optimize around it.

 

[LightningZ71]

I doubt seriously that the Switch 2 SOC is made on anything other than Samsung 8nm. Nintendo essentially got a largely off the shelf part and ran with it. This is why it may not be 100% exactly what they wanted, but it has what they considered the minimum that they needed. The only variation that we might see is either a Samsung developed straight optical shrink of it, or, if the need be ones really pressing, they may have NVIDIA develop a new floorplan and use a later PDK on a newer node. I suspect that it will be a long time before that happens as, let's face it, games aren't as demanding as we think they are unless we're desperately trying to push several hundred fps in CSGo at 4k, or attempting to photo realistically model each individual hair on Donkey's butt in a Shrek fps...