About Keystone XL

[Darwin333]

Are you serious?

snip

Couple of key phrases that you seemed to miss. The first one is "aging pipeline" and the other would be that its running through the friggen artic, pretty much the worst environment on the earth.

 

[Darwin333]

Doesn't stop accidents from happening, just this year and somewhat local:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/04/nation/la-na-oil-spill-yellowstone-20110704

Oil spill outrages Montana residents


Up to 42,000 gallons surge overnight Friday into the Yellowstone River, and some say Exxon Mobil's cleanup needs more oversight.


July 04, 2011|By Molly Hennessy-Fiske, Los Angeles Times
An oil spill in Montana's Yellowstone River surged toward North Dakota on Sunday as outraged residents demanded more government oversight of Exxon Mobil's cleanup.
An estimated 750 to 1,000 barrels, or up to 42,000 gallons, spilled through a damaged pipeline in the riverbed, Exxon spokesman Alan Jeffers said. The break near Billings could be related to the river's high water level, officials said.

So would you rather keep that 20 year old pipeline or build a brand new one with the latest and greatest materials and technologies to replace it? Maybe you would like to shut down all of the pipelines around the country? Wouldn't really have an impact on me but I guarantee you the majority of the nation won't be very happy about that.

 

[bfdd]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
How much do you gain personally?



Ba haha ahahahaha

OMG I got a bridge to sell you too.

The good thing is no Americans believe you America haters anymore.

So you're saying you have no fucking clue what you're talking about? We're already exporting tons of refined product at the moment and our local demand is down. If we increase our supply of refinable crude we will increase our exports and generate more wealth. Energy jobs pay well and this is a field we are actually pretty good at, so we yeah that's what would happen. You're to much of a closed minded ideologue with no experiences whatsoever in the real world that you really should just shut up when it comes to things like this.

 

[Spikesoldier]

lower energy prices, more American jobs, less imported oil being used from the ME, building better relationship with our neighbor to the North. financially though? nothing, i don't really care about money and I left the industry a few years ago.

just an FYI dave, we only have TWO industries left in this country worth a damn. We have our energy production and our food production/industry. Our high tech sector is going to disappear because it's all being made over seas, so forget about that. We're running on the cores of what build society now and you think it would be good to squash growth in one of the sectors? That makes no sense bud. You cannot have a functioning society without food and energy surplus.

you also forgot the healthcare industry, finance sector, and big pharma.

but yes energy and food are our specialties as well.

if the govt goes as far to confiscate land for this project - without compensation, then we will be seeing more of a communistic style of government.

we are already under fascist rule: government in bed with corporations. lobbyists like crazy, with extraordinary power. to quote dave - putting profits over people/fucking over the little guy.

 

[bfdd]

spike, i do not consider finance a sector worth saving or something that's even supporting us currently. i see it as a failing tool of the elite, one soon to collapse. i don't think pharma will last a financial collapse so i see that going poof then as well. healthcare is good, but again same thing shit will be leaving here soon and without the finance sector, how is that going to move forward?

I do agree that if the government confiscates land for this project without compensation they deserve to get smashed upon by the citizenry. I do not support those kinds of actions, but I do support the building of the Keystone XL and I think people should work together to get it done as safely.

 

[Darwin333]

Just showing that the industry does have issues and that we have valid concerns whenever something this large is proposed. To say something like, "as long as maintenance doesn't slack off" is missing the point. There are accidents and when they do happen they tend to be huge. The impact of these projects needs to be considered and whether you like it or not those who can potentially be impacted need to be involved as well. You know, that whole states right thing.

Also ironic that you use this in your sig, but have no issues with the government approving the Keystone plan when citizens have valid concerns on the impact of the pipeline in their parts of the country.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."

Huge? Huge is when a tanker goes down because there are no pipelines to move the oil. Huge is not 750-1,000 barrels. While its not good at all, pipelines are a necessary risk we take for the life you live.

 

[bfdd]

Huge? Huge is when a tanker goes down because there are no pipelines to move the oil. Huge is not 750-1,000 barrels. While its not good at all, pipelines are a necessary risk we take for the life you live.

No shit right? What fucking fear mongering from the article. Switching it to gallons to get the bigger number, lols.

 

[Darwin333]

How much do you gain personally?

He probably won't personally gain but we all gain from increased jobs, increased exports (of another nations product FTW), increased national security should we get cut off from ME oil for whatever reason, increased tax revenue, etc...

 

[MomentsofSanity]

No shit right? What fucking fear mongering from the article. Switching it to gallons to get the bigger number, lols.

Can we talk about the Deepwater Horizon spill and BP's cost cutting? Was that one large enough to be worthy of discussion?

 

[bfdd]

Can we talk about the Deepwater Horizon spill and BP's cost cutting? Was that one large enough to be worthy of discussion?

Absolutely and I still doubt it was BP cost cutting. Wasn't it one of their contractors that fucked this off? Mostly likely they were trying to increase their profits and screwed the pooch. I've seen that happen before and I'm pretty sure EVERYONE has in one industry or another. Also there's a lot of bureaucracy when it comes to doing these kinds of jobs, it's not as simple as "here's your job go get it done" and I'm talking about shit as simple as "put a new gasket on this flange" or "go take some readings from those gauges".

 

[dmcowen674]

So you're saying you have no fucking clue what you're talking about?

We're already exporting tons of refined product at the moment and our local demand is down.

and what has that got us? Higher prices at the pump

How's that for a reward for consuming less, just like electricity.

I know exactly what I am talking about and have called your ilk on the carpet.

Americans are getting more and more tired of it everyday and you know it.

 

[bfdd]

and what has that got us? Higher prices at the pump

How's that for a reward for consuming less, just like electricity.

I know exactly what I am talking about and have called your ilk on the carpet.

Americans are getting more and more tired of it everyday and you know it.

It's 3.20-.40 around me. Prices are down as they should be right now and you're right we shouldn't be exporting refined crude if we're still importing refined crude. That's a bullshit game of profits the oil companies are playing, but it is currently benefiting us even if I do not like it or approve of it. Also, why do you hate Americans? You do not want them to have high paying jobs? In California you'd be hard pressed to find someone working in this industry making less than like 20 bucks an hour, there just isn't very many of them and if they are it's because they're new to it. I started out at like 17.80 an hour and within a year I was making 20, 2 years I was making around 25. So why do you hate American's Dave? I want to give them good jobs in an industry that is REQUIRED by the world at this moment, you want to take away any chance at real wealth creation they have.

 

[Spikesoldier]

spike, i do not consider finance a sector worth saving or something that's even supporting us currently. i see it as a failing tool of the elite, one soon to collapse. i don't think pharma will last a financial collapse so i see that going poof then as well. healthcare is good, but again same thing shit will be leaving here soon and without the finance sector, how is that going to move forward?

I do agree that if the government confiscates land for this project without compensation they deserve to get smashed upon by the citizenry. I do not support those kinds of actions, but I do support the building of the Keystone XL and I think people should work together to get it done as safely.

i was just throwing those out there as large components of our economy. didnt know you were judging their long-term viability.

 

[bfdd]

i was just throwing those out there as large components of our economy. didnt know you were judging their long-term viability.

Isn't that only kind that matters?

 

[Spikesoldier]

and what has that got us? Higher prices at the pump

How's that for a reward for consuming less, just like electricity.

I know exactly what I am talking about and have called your ilk on the carpet.

Americans are getting more and more tired of it everyday and you know it.

i think that the knee-jerk reaction to the BP deep horizon disaster -a gulf drilling ban was a contributing factor in the prices going up as well.

 

[Spikesoldier]

Isn't that only kind that matters?

certainly, but we are also world leaders in the examples i mentioned. due to the worldwide economic crunch however, not just domestically, these industries will be impacted. its picking and choosing of which lamb to cull is the hard part.

 

[Darwin333]

No shit right? What fucking fear mongering from the article. Switching it to gallons to get the bigger number, lols.

Not that it should be taken lightly either, regardless of the amount. It should be properly cleaned up and the owner of the pipeline should do their best to ensure that it doesn't leak again.

But put into context of our other methods of transporting oil, that is a very very small spill.

 

[Darwin333]

Absolutely and I still doubt it was BP cost cutting. Wasn't it one of their contractors that fucked this off? Mostly likely they were trying to increase their profits and screwed the pooch. I've seen that happen before and I'm pretty sure EVERYONE has in one industry or another. Also there's a lot of bureaucracy when it comes to doing these kinds of jobs, it's not as simple as "here's your job go get it done" and I'm talking about shit as simple as "put a new gasket on this flange" or "go take some readings from those gauges".

No, it was BP cost cutting and the rig owners (who were being paid by BP) followed BPs bad call to remove the mud from the riser too soon.

But that is drilling for oil in ultradeep waters, it has little to do with running a pipeline.

 

[dmcowen674]

you're right we shouldn't be exporting refined crude if we're still importing refined crude.

That's a bullshit game of profits the oil companies are playing

At least I got that much out of you.

Merry Christmas to you too :thumbsup:

 

[Darwin333]

It's 3.20-.40 around me. Prices are down as they should be right now and you're right we shouldn't be exporting refined crude if we're still importing refined crude. That's a bullshit game of profits the oil companies are playing, but it is currently benefiting us even if I do not like it or approve of it. Also, why do you hate Americans? You do not want them to have high paying jobs? In California you'd be hard pressed to find someone working in this industry making less than like 20 bucks an hour, there just isn't very many of them and if they are it's because they're new to it. I started out at like 17.80 an hour and within a year I was making 20, 2 years I was making around 25. So why do you hate American's Dave? I want to give them good jobs in an industry that is REQUIRED by the world at this moment, you want to take away any chance at real wealth creation they have.

You just need to understand why we import and export refined product the way we do. It makes perfect sense and US companies make a few bucks being middle men.

 

[Darwin333]

At least I got that much out of you.

Merry Christmas to you too :thumbsup:

LOL, yet you have absolutely no idea as to why we import refined product, do you?

 

[bfdd]

Darwin I hear you on the reason why we do it, but we shouldn't imo. It makes sense from a profit standpoint to import refined while exporting our higher quality and more sought after refined product, but I just don't think it makes long term.

Drawin, that's what I mean by the contractors fault. They should have known better than to do that. Screw what the person paying them says, it's their reputation on the line because they're the ones pushing the buttons and turning the wrenches. I would never have done anything that would have put my reputation, my unions reputation or my companies reputation on the line for someone paying us. That just isn't good business.

 

[Darwin333]

Darwin I hear you on the reason why we do it, but we shouldn't imo. It makes sense from a profit standpoint to import refined while exporting our higher quality and more sought after refined product, but I just don't think it makes long term.

Could you elaborate on why you think it doesn't make sense long term? We might not be able to export it long term but why isn't it a good idea to do it while we can? You do realize that is what the Keystone pipeline is almost exclusively for right? It is going to pump crude to the Gulf of Mexico to be refined and exported to Asia.

Drawin, that's what I mean by the contractors fault. They should have known better than to do that. Screw what the person paying them says, it's their reputation on the line because they're the ones pushing the buttons and turning the wrenches. I would never have done anything that would have put my reputation, my unions reputation or my companies reputation on the line for someone paying us. That just isn't good business.

Oh I agree completely, especially when your putting lives on the line but at the same time I understand that most of the time it can be very difficult to tell the man who signs your checks no.

 

[soundforbjt]

Transcanada says it will create at most 6000 Temporary jobs at best estimates. Why do idiot politicians like Michelle Bachmann and Faux News always say tens of thousands? Bachmann used 20,000 in a debate! She's nuts!

 

[Darwin333]

Transcanada says it will create at most 6000 Temporary jobs at best estimates. Why do idiot politicians like Michelle Bachmann and Faux News always say tens of thousands? Bachmann used 20,000 in a debate! She's nuts!

Whats wrong with 6,000 temporary jobs at the expense of another nation?