Gotcha, we should not ever try to take advantage of chance happenings in our life. And if people do, they should have their lives destroyed for it. I don't have any issues with the Obama camp going after Joe to a certain extent, but to try to destroy them is going to far. But, I am sure you will continue to make excuses for Obama for the next 4 years.. Hopefully you never get on the wrong end of the Obama hate machine. If Bush had did the same thing to someone supporting YOUR positions, you would be frothing at the mouth like Harvey calling for his impeachment on war crimes (ok, now THAT was childish..)
Gotcha, we should not ever try to take advantage of chance happenings in our life. And if people do, they should have their lives destroyed for it. I don't have any issues with the Obama camp going after Joe to a certain extent, but to try to destroy them is going to far. But, I am sure you will continue to make excuses for Obama for the next 4 years.. Hopefully you never get on the wrong end of the Obama hate machine. If Bush had did the same thing to someone supporting YOUR positions, you would be frothing at the mouth like Harvey calling for his impeachment on war crimes (ok, now THAT was childish..)
Dbags like you think it was the Swift Boat ads that sunk Kerry, when in fact, it was Kerry's incessant, thinly veiled pandering (fake hunting trips and all) and hypocrisy (military records, anyone?) that exposed him for the 110% fraud he was. Sad that man couldn't beat Bush, but it had little to do with Swift Boating.
On that note, it was 4 years ago. Let it go.
Regarding JtP, he merely epitomized the camp's inability to run an effective, poignant campaign. While I think it's utterly disgusting what the media and the left did to him, it was a gross misfire by McCain and, frankly, Joe himself.
I think he "landed", but only insofar as he showed that the left and the media will not tolerate asking Obama tough questions on the spot. As far as an actual campaign tool, he was a disaster.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Just because I happen to agree with Reagan and the idea that the gov't should only do what it is originally charged with does not mean I'm blinded by ideology. I happen to enjoy looking at the other side's position and atleast try to understand why they believe what they believe. In this case, there is no basis for someone trying to attach progressive taxation to "the American dream" like BMW tried to do. Ofcourse there are the usual apologists and whiners who will jump all over a person like me just because I dared question "progressive" taxation- I'm used to it here since this place is full of libs who don't seem to understand much about it.
His post wasn't venomous at all. As far as Joe goes, he was destroyed. Granted, after awhile he was simply inviting it, but the first 24 hours after his "initial exposure" was a very, very disgusting and depressing moment in our political history. While people like you were calling McCain out for his negative ads, Joe the Plumber was having his entrails ripped out, diced, and served for dinner by Obama's supporters. It was truly sad.
you actually think Joe the Douchebag was destroyed? he took his fifteen minutes of fame and capitalized on it by going on national news programs and spewing ignorant and false statements and opinions about a national election. he is the fucking idiot who stated that Obama winning would be the end of Israel. and how about that book deal he signed? you are as moronic as Joe if you actually believe what you say.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11...arts-002.html?ref=arts
Now THERE'S a venomous post!
Read my post again. Comprehend. THEN respond. When you don't do things in the right order, you just look like an ass. Specifically, read where I said "the first 24 hours".
Thanks for playing, though!
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,839
- 2,625
- 136
jboourne77: I have no desire to step into your hissy fight, but you are foolish if you think either that Sam aka Joe didn't actively seek out all the publicity he could get-from the get-go, or that the media was being "Obama supporters" by doing their job and digging into the true facts of the situation. It is perhaps unfortunate the Sam aka Joe was such a fraud in nearly every aspect, but perhaps this is yet one more example of McCain's campaign properly failing to vet or investigate. After all, it was McCain himself who gave Sam aka Joe his massive initial publicity during the debate. Ironically it was McCain who chatised the media for publicizing Sam aka Joe when the true facts were not as McCain would have wished.
ConstipatedVigilante
Diamond Member
- Feb 22, 2006
- 7,670
- 1
- 0
QFT. It made McCain/Palin look like they thought Americans were all retarded blue-collar workers (not that I have anything against blue collar workers).
Joe had already been raped and pillaged before you had any idea what his intentions were. So although he turned out to be an attention whore who was behind on his taxes, you didn't know that when you decided his was a life that needed destroyed. Before you had any reason to rip the man to shreds, you did it anyway. So many people were so eager to eat this man alive that you clung to such nonsense as "oh noes his REAL name is SAM!!!" (oh my god the bastard goes by his middle name, like 30 million other Americans... you can spare us the "Sam aka Joe" macros) and "oh noes he doesn't really have a plumbing license" (doesn't need one). Before there was anything to sink your teeth into, your jaw was already locked into position. Long before the man placed himself in the spotlight on the McCain campaign trail, he was merely a voter asking a question. But that was all it took for you dogs to rip a person's life apart. Sure, he "asked for it" LATER, but that's after the fact. You can't defend your actions with events that took place after your actions.
Heaven forbid someone else had asked an "uncomfortable" question who really didn't want the spotlight or a public enema. Are we not allowed to ask questions of our candidates if we're not prepared to have our image smeared by the media, the government, and apologists like you, alien42, dmcowen, etc? The fact is, when Joe's question resonated with voters, you set after him with all you had, and that was a rather telling moment. He received more scrutiny by people like you and, frankly, the media, than our next First Lady.
Now, I make no excuses for Joe once he started campaigning for McCain. Once you take that step, it's open season just like it is on the candidates. But prior to thrusting himself into the spotlight (and asking a question during a stump speech is NOT "thrusting one's self into the spotlight", no matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise), he deserved none of that. It blows my mind that the same group of people who still, to this day, whine about Swift Boat tactics will stop at nothing to defend and contribute to garbage, gutter-tactics like that.
During election cycles, there are animals on both sides of the fence that are blinded by their partisan hate. They're handicapped by their tunnel vision and they subconsciously accept that any means are justified by their candidate's victory. Well, congratulations :thumbsup: .
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Joe lied his ass off to get attention, and he was a phoney. Thus Joe and Mccain both are fools, sorry if reality hurts your feelings for him.
See what the douche is up to nowadays since the election?
He is a terrible actor too it seems.
Poor Joe. An unlicensed plumber who really cares about bringing the DTV transition for Spanish and Chinese languages, and how to get government to pay for it.
/facepalm
See what the douche is up to nowadays since the election?
He is a terrible actor too it seems.
Poor Joe. An unlicensed plumber who really cares about bringing the DTV transition for Spanish and Chinese languages, and how to get government to pay for it.
/facepalm
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
Of course if the shoe was on the other foot, if he had confronted McCain and Obama then used him for his talking points in the Debate I'm sure the Republicans led by Hannity and Limbaugh would have eviscerated the guy and none of you would have made a peep in his defense.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I thought we don't entertain such hypotheticals around here? Conjecture this, conjecture that, whenever I make such statements I'm stopped dead in my tracks on it, no matter how obvious it may be. But since there seems to be a small window of opportunity...
... if the shoe truly was on the other foot, you'd be chastising Republicans for stomping out the little guy with Rovian tactics just because he dared question the "Traitor in Chief". This would be one more shining example of why "Repugs" were cretinous bastards capable of any evil necessary to ensure victory.
What took place in the first few days after Joe's "initial exposure" is an embarrassment to the human race, no matter who does it. I don't care what the political affiliation is.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
Actually I believe most of us in this thread are just arguing for the sake of arguing and that we really couldn't give a shit about this guy one way or another. I know I don't but if you say he was wronged I'll go along with it just because you say so.
1. Man asks difficult question of my candidate. Must destroy him to nullify point.
2. Eww... in hindsight that isn't very pretty. Must minimize events and trivialize this "stranger".
GroundedSailor
Platinum Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 2,502
- 0
- 76
Joe the plumber was made into an issue by John the McCain as soon as that clip became public. That is what triggered the whole saga. Whether the McCain campaign thought it would make a good talking point or John himself ignored advice from his campaign I don't know.
To claim that the first exposure came from the opposite camp is disingenuous. Had John McCain not made an issue of it Joe the Plumber would have remained an unknown.
Claiming it's disingenuous is disingenuous.
But even if McCain seized the opportunity before the story broke on its own - which is not true - so what? That still doesn't make the man fair game. Instead of disputing the message, people went after the man, and they did it without haste or relent. In the wee hours after the awkward situation started getting exposure (and before McCain seized on it), it was out that Joe's first name was actually Sam and he didn't have a plumbing license. When supporters couldn't neutralize (read: erase) what transpired, they went after the man instead.
No matter how you try to slice, dice, or spin it, it stinks.
First
Lifer
- Jun 3, 2002
- 10,518
- 271
- 136
I'd like to hear what you're referring to specifically. If the worst you can come up with is that MSNBC reported his real first name and the fact that he wasn't making anywhere near 250K, didn't have a license, etc., then it's pretty clear to the vast majority of people this is nowhere near as bad as your portrayal of "embarrassment to the human race".
Strike a nerve, did I? Bolded = likewise
When it hits you that this isn't really about Joe, specifically, let me know.
Why was Joe even being investigated to this extent at this point? What I'm referring to is that we had government officials in Ohio investigating the man, and the media/public trying to get their hands on every facet of his personal life that they could. A simple question never warranted such a response. But people were so infuriated over the exchange between him and Obama (more specifically, infuriated that people took notice) that they couldn't see straight.
All I have to say at this point is that I don't ever want to hear about the "swift boating" of John Kerry again. At least he was running for President.
Joe the Douchebag was lying through his teeth and he got busted, why in the world you would choose to defend him is beyond reason.
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