Abortion provider shot to death at church

[BMW540I6speed]

There are no "pro-lifers". There are anti-abortionists, but being "pro-life" is quixotic at best, usually hypocritical, and always absurd.

The stark hypocrisy of "pro-life" murder should be obvious to all but the idiotic and/or ideological.

It reveals that the real argument is not "pro-life" versus "pro-choice", but guns versus abortion. The actual issue under discussion is; shall killing be permitted prenatally or postnatally? It is a city-versus-country dispute over a detail of timing.

There are other compromises with necessity; self-defense, capital punishment, defensive war. They may be justifiable, but they are by definition not "pro-life", except in the Orwellian sense.

There are no pro-lifers because there is no free lunch. In the absence of infinite wealth, people must pick and choose whom to help and whom to deny, sometimes even in matters of life and death.

Take Dr. Tiller's patients. He treated the hard cases, the obstetric disasters, the doomed pregnancies fated to yield dead baby or dead mother or both. In such cases, there does not exist a "pro-life" medical option; late-term abortion is the least bad choice.

These sorts of bad choices happen all the time. They're natural, they're built into the world. If God exists, and created such a world, then God is certainly not a pro-lifer. Therefore it is folly for mortals to call themselves "pro-life"; for that would be to claim moral superiority over God and Nature.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
I wonder if all those opposed to abortion would be willing to take a woman's child off her hands instead of her (the woman) having it aborted?

Of course not. As Carlin put it, Republicans want live babies so they can make dead soldiers.

I wonder if all those opposed to Mother's killing their (already living) children would be willing to take her children off her hands instead of her (the women) drowning them in a bath tub? Of course not, it's a stupid question and you're both idiots.

I'm pro-choice by the way.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
The attacks on OReilly are just further proof on how morally bankrupt the democrat party has become. They cannot defeat him in the ratings, so they are going to try to hold him accountable for what some nutjob did to an abortion doctor. Saying you think someone is doing something immoral or disgusting and that you personally disagree with it is NOT inciting violence.

Of course, its better for the democrats to use this as a political statement because they know this person was a worthless human being and are probably not even that sad that he's dead. They will just use the death to attack radio hosts.

Right, its not the person on air who saying the doctor needs to be killed that is the bad person, its the people who call him out on it, they are bad ones.

Funny to see how suddenly FNE is on the side of terrorists though, I guess white makes right for you.

Could you please provide reference to OReilly saying the doctor needs to be killed?

He doesn't come right out and say he needs to be killed. However:

?If you want to kill a baby, you hire Tiller. You?ve got to pay him $5,000 up front, and he?ll kill the baby.?
?No question Dr. Tiller has blood on his hands.?
?Dr. George Tiller destroys fetuses for just about any reason, right up until the birth date.?
? ?This man executes babies that are about to be born
?This is the kind of stuff happened in Mao?s China, Hitler?s Germany, Stalin?s Soviet Union.?

He's guilty of "Nazi stuff," said O'Reilly on June 8, 2005; a moral equivalent to NAMBLA and al-Qaida, he suggested on March 15,

On June 12, 2007, he said, "Yes, I think we all know what this is. And if the state of Kansas doesn't stop this man, then anybody who prevents that from happening has blood on their hands as the governor does right now, Governor Sebelius."

"O'Reilly didn't tell anyone to do anything violent, but he did put Tiller in the public eye, and help make him the focus of a movement with a history of violence against exactly these kinds of targets (including Tiller himself, who had already been shot). In those circumstances, flinging around words like "blood on their hands," "pardon," "country club" and "judgment day" was sensationally irresponsible."
Text

I'm not a lawyer, but I think Tiller's family should sue O'Reilly for inciting the violence against him.

How do any of those statements say 'kill the doctor'? If you come out against torture are you suggesting people kill the former President George Bush? Should the statements made by Harvey in this forum be interpreted as inciting violence against GWB?

Are you suggesting that people not be allowed to come out against late term abortions because it may possibly encourage someone to kill a doctor who performs them? If I say I am against high taxes am I encouraging people kill democrats?

:thumbsup:

 

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
I wonder if all those opposed to abortion would be willing to take a woman's child off her hands instead of her (the woman) having it aborted?

A majority of the fetuses that were terminated were severely malformed and/or retarded, I am sure there would be a line of people waiting to adopt a gigantic financial/emotional burden for a couple years, if of course these 'children' were going to live that long.

You know I am very pro 'government-has-no-funking-right' telling me or anyone else what I/we can or cannot do, and even I am disturbed at the idea of a viable child's life being terminated, BUT it isn't any of my business nor is it any of YOUR business... so STFU or move to another country where clerics, priests or supreme leaders tell you what your going to do/think/behave like.



SHUX

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Speaking of God not being "pro life"...

"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life." -- Exodus 21:22-23

Seems Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life

"And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver." -- Leviticus 27:6

Hmmm, The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

"Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. "-- Numbers 3:15-16

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.


"And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him." -- Numbers 31:15-17

Interesting. God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

"Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts". -- Hosea 9:14

"Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." -- Hosea 9:16

"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." -- Hosea 13:16

Hmmm, Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

"The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ... And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed." -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

"Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." -- Genesis 38:24

God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women. What a sick fucking book.

 

[Synomenon]

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
I wonder if all those opposed to abortion would be willing to take a woman's child off her hands instead of her (the woman) having it aborted?

BUT it isn't any of my business nor is it any of YOUR business... so STFU or move to another country where clerics, priests or supreme leaders tell you what your going to do/think/behave like.



SHUX

Exactly. It's none of my business. So what makes it their business? ("their" being all those people who are so against abortion / a woman's right to choose).

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Two words:

Christian Taliban!

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

this asshole killed someone in church and 'christians' defend the actions of the shooter? Another nail in their cross of hypocrisy.
Good job fucknuts.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
this asshole killed someone in church and 'christians' defend the actions of the shooter? Another nail in their cross of hypocrisy.
Good job fucknuts.

Kind of like how terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC and Muslims approve?
You really want to go there?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
this asshole killed someone in church and 'christians' defend the actions of the shooter? Another nail in their cross of hypocrisy.
Good job fucknuts.

Kind of like how terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC and Muslims approve?
You really want to go there?

Sure they're fucking hypocrites too. And not all muslims approved. Like all christians didn't approve of this. So lump them all in the same pile of mucus, that's basically what they are. Are we there yet?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
this asshole killed someone in church and 'christians' defend the actions of the shooter? Another nail in their cross of hypocrisy.
Good job fucknuts.

Kind of like how terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC and Muslims approve?
You really want to go there?

Sure they're fucking hypocrites too. And not all muslims approved. Like all christians didn't approve of this. So lump them all in the same pile of mucus, that's basically what they are. Are we there yet?

I'm good with that.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
this asshole killed someone in church and 'christians' defend the actions of the shooter? Another nail in their cross of hypocrisy.
Good job fucknuts.

Kind of like how terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC and Muslims approve?
You really want to go there?

I'm guessing you've never actually listened to Richard Dawkins rail against both Islam and Christianity before.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
I wonder if all those opposed to abortion would be willing to take a woman's child off her hands instead of her (the woman) having it aborted?

I wonder if all those opposed to infanticide would be willing to take a woman's child off her hands instead of her (the woman) leaving it in a dumpster?

Edit: Oops, looks like JD50 already demonstrated that IsLNdbOi's 'logic' isn't.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
this asshole killed someone in church and 'christians' defend the actions of the shooter? Another nail in their cross of hypocrisy.
Good job fucknuts.

Kind of like how terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC and Muslims approve?
You really want to go there?

I'm guessing you've never actually listened to Richard Dawkins rail against both Islam and Christianity before.

I've heard Dawkins. I'll say he has no respect for anyone, so he's unbiased in that regard.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
I wonder if all those opposed to abortion would be willing to take a woman's child off her hands instead of her (the woman) having it aborted?

A majority of the fetuses that were terminated were severely malformed and/or retarded, I am sure there would be a line of people waiting to adopt a gigantic financial/emotional burden for a couple years, if of course these 'children' were going to live that long.

You know I am very pro 'government-has-no-funking-right' telling me or anyone else what I/we can or cannot do, and even I am disturbed at the idea of a viable child's life being terminated, BUT it isn't any of my business nor is it any of YOUR business... so STFU or move to another country where clerics, priests or supreme leaders tell you what your going to do/think/behave like.

SHUX

I'm curious - why isn't it your business if a viable child's life is terminated? Is it your business if Joey Sr. decides to deal with Joey Jr.'s discipline issues using lit cigarettes?

 

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Shuxclams

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
I wonder if all those opposed to abortion would be willing to take a woman's child off her hands instead of her (the woman) having it aborted?

A majority of the fetuses that were terminated were severely malformed and/or retarded, I am sure there would be a line of people waiting to adopt a gigantic financial/emotional burden for a couple years, if of course these 'children' were going to live that long.

You know I am very pro 'government-has-no-funking-right' telling me or anyone else what I/we can or cannot do, and even I am disturbed at the idea of a viable child's life being terminated, BUT it isn't any of my business nor is it any of YOUR business... so STFU or move to another country where clerics, priests or supreme leaders tell you what your going to do/think/behave like.

SHUX

I'm curious - why isn't it your business if a viable child's life is terminated? Is it your business if Joey Sr. decides to deal with Joey Jr.'s discipline issues using lit cigarettes?

You don't see the difference? that's fair, you don't have to, see, that's the beauty. If you think there isn't a difference then you don't get an abortion, that's your right and nobody (but me mind you, I think all you retards should be neutered or given mandatory abortions) will think twice about YOUR choice.

How about a hypothetical?

If Joey Sr, who didn't want Joey Jr. in the first place, had somehow had an abortion then little Joey Jr. wouldn't have ran away from home to escape from his abusive father, only to walk the streets of <name big city here> doing petty crimes here and there and end up servicing closeted married gay guys in dark alleys for a couple bucks to buy some <name illicit drug here> and a little bit to eat. How sad was it when he, little Joey Jr., found out he had the HIV for a couple years, after landing in jail for <name of violent felony here>. He had to write his junkie girlfriend who just had their little baby boy one night at the emergency room because she didn't really know about how the whole babies come from your vagina thing after 9 months...... you know how this story goes.... Cycle continues, over and over. I say HAVE THE FUCKING ABORTION and stop the madness.



SHUX

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Shuxclams
You don't see the difference? that's fair, you don't have to, see, that's the beauty. If you think there isn't a difference then you don't get an abortion, that's your right and nobody (but me mind you, I think all you retards should be neutered or given mandatory abortions) will think twice about YOUR choice.

So everyone who disagrees with you is a retard? Real mature.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: microbial
-snip-
Clearly the Constitution does not protect hate speech, and provocation to anger. Lots of other types of speech the constitution does not protect.

Of cours it does. That's not to say there can't be a resonable restrictions on 1st amendment rights.

Have you forgotten the KKK were allowed to march through Skokie (sp?), or have you not seen the Sotomayor thread where a link is provided to her decision ruling a (police officer) white supremist had 1st amendment rights for his 'hate' literature?

Much of the replies in this thread are silly - like attributing this guy's (as of yet unknown) motives to Christians and anti-abortion groups in general. Most of what I've on this guy indicates he was anything but mainstream in any of his views. He was a member of the Patriot Movement and the Freemen, both radical anti-government organizations. He strikes me as a (radical) rebel searching for a cause. Causes like refusing to pay income taxes, putting licenses plates on his cars etc. None of which suggest he was any type of 'religious' person etc.

I suppose anti-abortion was his latest 'cause dujour', and as usual he took it to extremes.

Before getting all worked up about his motives, and generalizing to other groups and insulting them, might be better to wait until some real info on his motives becomes available. There are people who opposed to aborions, but not on biblical grounds.

This guy reminds me of Eric Rudolph, his motives also remain unclear but he certainly wasn't any type of deeply religious person. Rudolph was conected to these types anti-gov groups too. I don't know what they're teaching, or why, but there certainly seems to be an anti-abortion platform. I can't see how it's biblical based, for paying one's taxes in commanded in the bible and they sure don't pay those.

Fern

 

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: microbial
-snip-
Clearly the Constitution does not protect hate speech, and provocation to anger. Lots of other types of speech the constitution does not protect.

Of cours it does. That's not to say there can't be a resonable restriction on 1st amendment rights.

Have you forgotten the KKK were allowed to march through Skokie (sp?), or have you not seen the Sotomayor thread where a link is provided to decision ruling a (police officer)white supremist had 1st amendment rights for his 'hate' literature?

Much of the replies in this thread are silly - like attributing this guy's (as of yet unknown) motives to Christians and anti-abortion groups in general. <ost of what I've on this guy indicates he was anything but mainstream in any of his views. He was a memebr of the Patriot Movement and the Freemen, both radical anti-government organizations. he strikes me as a (radical) rebel searching for a cause. Causes like refusing to pay income taxes, putting licenses plates on his cars etc. None of which suggest he was any type of 'religious' person etc.

I suppose anti-abortion was his latest 'cause dujour', and as usual he took it to extremes.

Before getting all worked about his motives, and generalizing to ther groups and insulting them, might be better to wait until some real info on his motives becomes available. There are people who opposed to aborions, but not on biblical grounds.

This guy reminds me of Eric Rudolph, his motives also remain unclear but he certainly wasn't any type of deeply religious person. Rudolph was conected to these types anti-gov groups too. I don't know what they're teaching, or why, but there certainly seems to be a an anti-abortion platform. I can't see how it's biblical based, for paying one's taxes in commanded in the bible and they sure don't pay those.

Fern

I think there is a huge difference to allowing the KKK to march or allowing free speech esp in regards to Racism, Sexism, etc AND Demonizing in the media. These people routinely called Dr. Tiller - 'George Tiller Baby Killer' and an assortment of other less then human names. From my perspective the Right Wing media demonized a Doctor who performed legal medical operations - making him a target for would be killers (nutjobs, militia types or whatever). that's just irresponsible to say the least. But no matter, we can argue that point forever, some people feel it's justified and that's that.

I suggest to all that those same people are capable of killing doctors, or gays, or minorities or whomever is 'demonized' in the media and at the pulpit. I can't imagine many people in 1939 Germany thought they would be turning in their neighbors and friends, but after a lot of demonizing of Jews, Gays, Catholics, Gypsies, etc they were all too accommodating, hell some were good enough to throw the people into the kilns themselves. Oh, if you think I am comparing the Religious Right and Uber Right Wing here in America to Nazi's... your right I am. 🙂 It's probably easier to show the Religious Right as being = to Taliban, but that's too easy.


SHUX