Well, this is an historic moment. I agree with CyberPlayMyOwnSax. I'm not a right wing Christian, but I think abortion is murder. So I could not welcome this announcement. RaDragon's comment about not having sex in the first place is apropos. Some of these kids just need to be a little more creative with their love-making. Perhaps I need to give a class....
thebestMAX
Diamond Member
- Sep 14, 2000
- 7,487
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Bobber,
Hate to tell you this but life begins when the single cell ovum and sperm unite to form a zygote and begin cell multiplication through morula, blastula, gastrula and so on. Fertilization occurs in the fallopian tubes and multiplication of cells continue until implantation and of course, thereafter. If no implantation, then the fertilized mass washes out with the menses. Birth control pills work this way by simulating pregnancy to the body. Please no flames, a simplified explanation.
More than you wanted to know.
I agree with you on brainwave, heart activity and so on, which also occurs quite early in a pregnancy but where is there sentience? What is the earlist thing that you remember?
Putting religion aside, I see no downside to any type of birth control/abortion which in the strict sense any birth contol pill is. As far as increased promiscuity, the fear of aids or other STDs is probably a better enforcement of morality the the fear of pregnancy. Of course no one thinks it will happen to them.
Let the people who want children have them when they want them and let the rest.............
Hate to tell you this but life begins when the single cell ovum and sperm unite to form a zygote and begin cell multiplication through morula, blastula, gastrula and so on. Fertilization occurs in the fallopian tubes and multiplication of cells continue until implantation and of course, thereafter. If no implantation, then the fertilized mass washes out with the menses. Birth control pills work this way by simulating pregnancy to the body. Please no flames, a simplified explanation.
More than you wanted to know.
I agree with you on brainwave, heart activity and so on, which also occurs quite early in a pregnancy but where is there sentience? What is the earlist thing that you remember?
Putting religion aside, I see no downside to any type of birth control/abortion which in the strict sense any birth contol pill is. As far as increased promiscuity, the fear of aids or other STDs is probably a better enforcement of morality the the fear of pregnancy. Of course no one thinks it will happen to them.
Let the people who want children have them when they want them and let the rest.............
RaDragon
-- politics is paving this path, not medicine.
I would submit that some politics(ARE YOU LISTENING <YOU RIGHT WING MORALIST FAGGOTS!) are trying to block medicine.
I find it beyond belief that white males are the ones who are overwhelmingly vocal about what isn't any of thier godamn business to begin with. Any determination of action involving this kind of decession belongs with the woman,her doctor,and her God. The rest of you sons a bitches stay out of the way!!:|
Some don't believe that life begins at conception. I don't believe life starts until there is a birth(HOW FRIGGING NOVEL).
One right wing B!tch said there is a detectable beating heart at 14 days after concseption,therefor the 486 drug is a murder weapon.
Really desperate.
The same fools that bomb planned parenthood clinics and kill doctors,nurses,and visitors all in the name of PRO LIFE. Thats as much an oxymoron as military inteligence!
-- politics is paving this path, not medicine.
I would submit that some politics(ARE YOU LISTENING <YOU RIGHT WING MORALIST FAGGOTS!) are trying to block medicine.
I find it beyond belief that white males are the ones who are overwhelmingly vocal about what isn't any of thier godamn business to begin with. Any determination of action involving this kind of decession belongs with the woman,her doctor,and her God. The rest of you sons a bitches stay out of the way!!:|
Some don't believe that life begins at conception. I don't believe life starts until there is a birth(HOW FRIGGING NOVEL).
One right wing B!tch said there is a detectable beating heart at 14 days after concseption,therefor the 486 drug is a murder weapon.
Really desperate.
The same fools that bomb planned parenthood clinics and kill doctors,nurses,and visitors all in the name of PRO LIFE. Thats as much an oxymoron as military inteligence!
While being legal does not guarantee moral correctness, I'd say I find this method of abortion less offensive than others, especially the late-term partial birth procedure. It's still preventing life (one might say taking life), but in a less painful way.
pro choice, cause you've never walked on my shoes and i've never walked in yours.
dam(let me be)
dam(let me be)
<< I would submit that some politics(ARE YOU LISTENING <YOU RIGHT WING MORALIST FAGGOTS!) are trying to block medicine >>
<< One right wing B!tch said there is a detectable beating heart at 14 days after concseption,therefor the 486 drug is a murder weapon.
Really desperate. >>
This type of dialog is sounding a bit desperate also.
thebestMAX
Diamond Member
- Sep 14, 2000
- 7,487
- 121
- 106
Tripleshot
She is right in her biology, possibly, but I agree wth you. Nobody elses business.
Birth is just a step in the process and we all have a terminal illness, life.
Unfortunately this is being made a political matter and will win and lose votes. You have to take the good with the bad as no one party has it all.
She is right in her biology, possibly, but I agree wth you. Nobody elses business.
Birth is just a step in the process and we all have a terminal illness, life.
Unfortunately this is being made a political matter and will win and lose votes. You have to take the good with the bad as no one party has it all.
I think that there should always be a choice no matter what. That way, no one's rights or opinions or what have you gets infringed upon. It's like the heater in a house. You could turn the heat up to make one person comfortable. The other guy has to deal. Or, you could turn the heat down to make the other person comfortable, and the one that's cold can put on a sweater. 2 people are happy that way.
This is one of those issues that will never really be solved. No one can be convinced that their view is wrong. It is perhaps a sign of how limited humans are as a people, that we can allow issues to be so dividing, and that we act so irrationally defending our positions on these issues.
<< One right wing B!tch... >>
<< How can you sick fscks celebrate? This isn't progress, it's barbaric >>
Neither side can take the moral highground, as both sides have done some abominable things defending their views.
So, I say that it ought to be a choice. Not one to be made lightly, but still a choice. Condemning a person to no choice at all is the greatest of crimes.
edit: Yes, I know the baby doesn't have a choice, but there is a reason for that. It's in no position to make a choice.
This is one of those issues that will never really be solved. No one can be convinced that their view is wrong. It is perhaps a sign of how limited humans are as a people, that we can allow issues to be so dividing, and that we act so irrationally defending our positions on these issues.
<< One right wing B!tch... >>
<< How can you sick fscks celebrate? This isn't progress, it's barbaric >>
Neither side can take the moral highground, as both sides have done some abominable things defending their views.
So, I say that it ought to be a choice. Not one to be made lightly, but still a choice. Condemning a person to no choice at all is the greatest of crimes.
edit: Yes, I know the baby doesn't have a choice, but there is a reason for that. It's in no position to make a choice.
Is it really MY choice if I want to go get a gun and shoot my own child?
Yes it is. It's a choice that we sometimes read about people making in the paper, does that make it right?
Is it ok to poison him/her if they are bugging me and I just can't afford to buy food for them?
Yes it is. It's a choice that we sometimes read about people making in the paper, does that make it right?
Is it ok to poison him/her if they are bugging me and I just can't afford to buy food for them?
you know what, i agree.. it's sad, sick, disgusting, immoral, inhumane, i could go on and on ..
Str8UpKiller, you make me sick. How can you regard life with such sickening disregard? It's because of people like you that we have no trees left(You call the twigs you see on logging trucks trees? No! This is a Tree..), no animals left...
I agree 101% with office boy, and freak-o-a-l. It's freakin demented, and shows off wonderfully how low the US, and the world, have become.
It doesen't matter if it's 2 cells, or 10,000,000,000. It is ALIVE. Any living thing, regardless of seeming insignificance, is important. :|:|:|:|
:Q:disgust::frown:
Str8UpKiller, you make me sick. How can you regard life with such sickening disregard? It's because of people like you that we have no trees left(You call the twigs you see on logging trucks trees? No! This is a Tree..), no animals left...
I agree 101% with office boy, and freak-o-a-l. It's freakin demented, and shows off wonderfully how low the US, and the world, have become.
It doesen't matter if it's 2 cells, or 10,000,000,000. It is ALIVE. Any living thing, regardless of seeming insignificance, is important. :|:|:|:|
:Q:disgust::frown:
See, that's the problem with explosive issues like abortion. Too many people take things to the extreme. Make it a choice. No matter what, it's going to be a tough choice to make. And this pill isn't going to encourage anything. People that were having unsafe sex 5 years ago are going to be doing it 5 years from now, regardless of how easy it is to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy. People that weren't aren't going to start. Everybody is suffering from Mom syndrome or something, where they think they know what's best for everyone else. I support choice: whether that choice is carrying the baby to term or aborting a pregnancy is up to the woman and man involved and it's none of my business how they choose.
I'm with Cybersax on this one. Those who are celebrating this are a bunch of sick fvcks. Yes, I am pro-life. But, I do see this as being the lesser of two evils. But, by no means is it for any cause for celebration.
theBestMax:
What defines life? A beating heart? Sentience? Where is the medicine, or biology to support that view? That is a LEGAL view only. In fact, it is a legal FICTION, to support the abortion industry and women's convenience. Most abortions are performed because the girl or woman is not ready or is disinclined to assume the role of parent. Very few abortions are related to rape or to protect the mother. Take away the desire to support abortion and no scientific arguments exist to support the view that a zygote is not a human being. My views are not based upon scripture, but upon a simple moral and ethical truth: life is precious and we should protect it. If we condone this sort of killing, then we can and do rationalize a wide variety of other anti-life behaviors, such as the death penalty and genocide.
No medical decision which affects the life of a human being should be controlled by convenience unless no other choice exists. I submit the circumstances in which such conditions arise are extremely rare.
If genocide is murder, then abortion for convenience is murder.
What defines life? A beating heart? Sentience? Where is the medicine, or biology to support that view? That is a LEGAL view only. In fact, it is a legal FICTION, to support the abortion industry and women's convenience. Most abortions are performed because the girl or woman is not ready or is disinclined to assume the role of parent. Very few abortions are related to rape or to protect the mother. Take away the desire to support abortion and no scientific arguments exist to support the view that a zygote is not a human being. My views are not based upon scripture, but upon a simple moral and ethical truth: life is precious and we should protect it. If we condone this sort of killing, then we can and do rationalize a wide variety of other anti-life behaviors, such as the death penalty and genocide.
No medical decision which affects the life of a human being should be controlled by convenience unless no other choice exists. I submit the circumstances in which such conditions arise are extremely rare.
If genocide is murder, then abortion for convenience is murder.
Well, this is good news to me. I'm against abortion. I think the unborn should have the exact same Civil Rights as a baby that's newborn.
But I think the mother should be able to force her own menstruation! That looks like the perfect compromise from both sides. I do expect third trimester abortions to become illegal at some point real soon. And I think anybody that kills a pregnant woman has taken two lives. Anyone that causes a pregnancy to terminate against the mother's wishes is committing homicide IMO.
But, RU-486 has been long overdue. I'm for that and against any other form of abortion. The unborn have the unalienable right to life, just like everyone else. Right to life should be an ACLU thing!
But I think the mother should be able to force her own menstruation! That looks like the perfect compromise from both sides. I do expect third trimester abortions to become illegal at some point real soon. And I think anybody that kills a pregnant woman has taken two lives. Anyone that causes a pregnancy to terminate against the mother's wishes is committing homicide IMO.
But, RU-486 has been long overdue. I'm for that and against any other form of abortion. The unborn have the unalienable right to life, just like everyone else. Right to life should be an ACLU thing!
<< It doesen't matter if it's 2 cells, or 10,000,000,000. It is ALIVE. Any living thing, regardless of seeming insignificance, is important. >>
If that is the case.........don't get a sunburn because you are murdering your skin cells.
Slap
"I think the unborn should have the exact same Civil Rights as a baby that's newborn." You can't say that, a fetus can't even survive in the world without medical intervention.. its completely dependent on the mother for its survival. That statement opens up a whole bunch of cr@p you really don't want to deal with.
Say if a mother dies during birth, the baby would have to be charged with murder.. the mother has a miscarraige.. she would have to be charged with involuntary masnslaughter..Say a mother takes a drink of alcohol or some other drug, you would need to throw her in jail for attempted murder.. bleh.. stupid idea
considering many ppl beleive that "life" begins the momment the egg is fertalized.. then death of the fertalized egg would be murder.
you know how common miscarriages are there are? Many women don't even know they've had a miscarriage. I think the statstic was that most of the time fertalized eggs don't make it.
Say if a mother dies during birth, the baby would have to be charged with murder.. the mother has a miscarraige.. she would have to be charged with involuntary masnslaughter..Say a mother takes a drink of alcohol or some other drug, you would need to throw her in jail for attempted murder.. bleh.. stupid idea
considering many ppl beleive that "life" begins the momment the egg is fertalized.. then death of the fertalized egg would be murder.
you know how common miscarriages are there are? Many women don't even know they've had a miscarriage. I think the statstic was that most of the time fertalized eggs don't make it.
Zucchini:
Do you recognize the distinction between someone dying in an automobile accident and someone being murdered? If a fetus dies because it fails to attach then no one is probably at fault unless the mother has been a drug abuser or has engaged in other high risk behavior. We're having enough trouble keeping purposeful abortion out of the hands of doctors, so we aren't ready to attack the negligent killing of a fetus just yet. (Although we do seem willing to prosecute mothers of crack babies.) I doubt we will be seeing any zygotes charged with matricide, but that's a creative idea.
Do you recognize the distinction between someone dying in an automobile accident and someone being murdered? If a fetus dies because it fails to attach then no one is probably at fault unless the mother has been a drug abuser or has engaged in other high risk behavior. We're having enough trouble keeping purposeful abortion out of the hands of doctors, so we aren't ready to attack the negligent killing of a fetus just yet. (Although we do seem willing to prosecute mothers of crack babies.) I doubt we will be seeing any zygotes charged with matricide, but that's a creative idea.
Slap- Give me a break. While thats 100% correct, you can hardly compare it to taking a pill that leads to the death of a fertilized egg- a human fertilized egg.
I'm sure whatever drug company made RU-486 is jumping for joy ..
I'm sure whatever drug company made RU-486 is jumping for joy ..
Chess,
You can't consider all cases accidents. It would seem that in cases where a mother dies during childbirth the child(if given full civil rights) is responsible no matter how unintentional for the death.
going down this civil rights thing is mess no matter how u look at it
You can't consider all cases accidents. It would seem that in cases where a mother dies during childbirth the child(if given full civil rights) is responsible no matter how unintentional for the death.
going down this civil rights thing is mess no matter how u look at it
"One right wing B!tch said there is a detectable beating heart at 14 days after concseption,therefor the 486 drug is a murder weapon"
What a load of b*ll... Do these people even do a little research before they open their mouths????? The cells that will develop into de heart start to move together at day 16! The primordial heart is only formed after about 4 weeks! And the first 'heart beat' is at day 22 of the developing foetus.
As for my opinion, I don't think I am entitled to one: I am a man so I don't have to judge the right of someone to decide what they want to do with their body or life (and their childs, of course...)
What a load of b*ll... Do these people even do a little research before they open their mouths????? The cells that will develop into de heart start to move together at day 16! The primordial heart is only formed after about 4 weeks! And the first 'heart beat' is at day 22 of the developing foetus.
As for my opinion, I don't think I am entitled to one: I am a man so I don't have to judge the right of someone to decide what they want to do with their body or life (and their childs, of course...)
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