ABC NEWs Special; The war on drugs

[Insane3D]

We are going in circles. Drugs are addictive.

So are cigarettes.

If they are legal more people will do them.

Cigarettes are legal. Do you think that more people smoke them now than say 10, 20, or 30 years ago when smoking was seen as "cool"? Less and less people smoke today because their is more of an understanding of the dangers of smoking, and it's becoming less accepted in society. Even most smokers won't argue that smoking is bad for them. The current climate has actually created a new market for quitting smoking aids. We've got gum, patched, pills, etc solely for quitting smoking now. Who's to say if drugs were legalized, we would have more people using them?

SOME people will have to resort to crimes to pay for their habit. Plain and simple.

Why would someone commit a crime to get, say a pack of marijuana cigarettes that are maybe $2 or so at your local corner store?

Legalizing drugs will not lower crime, it might stay the same, but it will not lower it.

Of course it will. Let's say they just made pot legal. All the current pot arrest that are currently made, be it for dealing, using, or just simply having it, will not happen anymore since pot is legal. The simple legalization action itself would make all those actions that were previously considered crimes, no longer crimes. How can you say crime would not be lower?

 

[ivol07]

Why would someone commit a crime to get, say a pack of marijuana cigarettes that are maybe $2 or so at your local corner store?

Why does someone steal anything, because they don't have the money to buy it. Beer, cigarettes, a car. You've never seen those liquor store videos where someone trys to steal the cigarette rack?

Of course it will. Let's say they just made pot legal. All the current pot arrest that are currently made, be it for dealing, using, or just simply having it, will not happen anymore since pot is legal. The simple legalization action itself would make all those actions that were previously considered crimes, no longer crimes. How can you say crime would not be lower?

If that is your logic, let's just make everything legal. Then we will have NO crime because nothing would be illegal.

 

[JellyBaby]

You can decriminalize drugs instead of legalizing them. I think the UK is making steps toward this regarding pot. They still go after dealers but possession is no longer a crime.

Few are suggesting making hard drugs legal for minors, in any form.

 

[vi edit]

Why does someone steal anything, because they don't have the money to buy it. Beer, cigarettes, a car. You've never seen those liquor store videos where someone trys to steal the cigarette rack?

Many home burglaries and small theft is to front drug habits because the black market on drugs has raised the cost of selling black market drugs by HUNDREDS of times the amount that the drugs would cost if it was legal.

Right now a crackhead may have to pay $200 a week to support his crack habit, and has to steal $150 worth of merchandise to support that habit. If it was legal, that crack/pot/whatever may only cost 1/10th of that price and no longer needs to break into places to support their drug habits.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

I saw it - made some nice points - changed my view a little bit.

 

[Amused]

ivol07,

There is one major problem with your theory: The Netherlands.

Not only did their rate of abuse drop, but so did their crime rate after they decriminalized drugs.

Sorry, but real life directly contradicts your suppositions.

 

[HermitGuy]

Originally posted by:Gaard
Of those who think drugs should be legal...I'm curious to know if your main reason for holding that position is the desire to reduce crime or if your main reason is so that you can get high legally. Is crime reduction the focal point of the legalization push? Or is the "I have a right to get high" mentality the drive behind the push to legalize drugs/pot?

I'll say first that I can't speak for anyone else but myself. I have for a long time thought that drugs should be decriminalized for adult use, at the same time I have no desire what so ever to try them. I don't drink nor do I smoke, and I have never even come close to trying any kind of illegal drugs including pot and I certainly don't intend to start now. I do believe though that if another adult wants to use these drugs that's their choice as long as they don't injure anyone else while under the influence, if they do then that is when society has a right to step in with the appropriate punishment just as with any other crime.

As for the drug war, we should have learned from prohibition.

 

[ivol07]

There is one major problem with your theory: The Netherlands.

I don't live in the Netherlands. I'm sure that there are 1 million other factors that contributed to their success. If it is in fact a success. I'm sure their culture is way different from ours in the US. Maybe better, maybe worse, but different for sure. Maybe it all comes down to the way parents raise their kids over there as opposed to the slackjawed way we raise our kids over here. Maybe the police force is just more lenient to drug crimes over there so they never get reported. Or maybe it just works.

Either way, I don't think a majority of the American public would be able to handle it. Mostly Young Americans. They would see all the Heroine and Weed commercials on TV where the guy smokes some weed and three girls jump out a pool and a party starts and go get loaded. And drive loaded and work loaded and whatever else. I agree with the statement that there shouldn't be laws to protect me from myself, like motorcycle helmet laws. That only would effect the person driving the motorcycle. But legalizing drugs would effect not only the people using, but everyone else around them.

 

[MadRat]

<<There is one major problem with your theory: The Netherlands.
Not only did their rate of abuse drop, but so did their crime rate after they decriminalized drugs.>>

Thats the popular myth but short of reality.

 

[jhu]

They would see all the Heroine and Weed commercials on TV where the guy smokes some weed and three girls jump out a pool and a party starts and go get loaded. And drive loaded and work loaded and whatever else.

when's the last time you saw a cigarette ad on tv with all the hot bitches surrounding the marlboro man?

But legalizing drugs would effect not only the people using, but everyone else around them

so why are tobacco products and alcoholic beverages still legal?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: MadRat
<<There is one major problem with your theory: The Netherlands.
Not only did their rate of abuse drop, but so did their crime rate after they decriminalized drugs.>>

Thats the popular myth but short of reality.

Social Indicator...................................................................Years.................USA.........Netherlands
Lifetime prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) ......1998 vs. 1997........... 33%......... 15.6%
Past month prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) 1998 vs. 1997 ...........5% ...........2.5%
Lifetime prevalence of heroin use (ages 12+) ............1998 vs. 1997 .........1.1% ..........0.3%
Incarceration Rate per 100,000 population ................1997 vs. .1996 ........645 ...........77.3
Per capita spending on drug-related law enforcement 1997 vs. 1995 .........$81 ............$27
Homicide rate per 100,000 population .........................1995 vs. 1995 ...........8 .............1.8


"The number of addicts in the Netherlands has been stable - at 25,000 - for many years. Expressed as a percentage of the population, this number is approximately the same as in Germany, Sweden and Belgium. There are very few young heroin addicts in the Netherlands, largely thanks to the policy of separating the users markets for hard and soft drugs. The average age of heroin addicts is now 36."

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Justice, Fact Sheet: Dutch Drugs Policy, (Utrecht: Trimbos Institute, Netherlands Institute of Mental Health and Addiction, 1999), from the Netherlands Justice Ministry website at http://www.minjust.nl:8080/a_beleid/fact/cfact7.htm.


"The figures for cannabis use among the general population reveal the same pictures. The Netherlands does not differ greatly from other European countries. In contrast, a comparison with the US shows a striking difference in this area: 32.9% of Americans aged 12 and above have experience with cannabis and 5.1% have used in the past month. These figures are twice as high as those in the Netherlands."

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, Drug Policy in the Netherlands: Progress Report September 1997-September 1999, (The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, November 1999), pp. 7-8.



"The prevalence figures for cocaine use in the Netherlands do not differ greatly from those for other European countries. However, the discrepancy with the United States is very large. The percentage of the general population who have used cocaine at some point is 10.5% in the US, five times higher than in the Netherlands. The percentage who have used cocaine in the past month is 0.7% in the US, compared with 0.2% in the Netherlands.*"

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, Drug Policy in the Netherlands: Progress Report September 1997-September 1999, (The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, November 1999), p. 6. The report notes "*The figures quoted in this paragraph for drug use in the US are taken from the National Household Survey 1997, SAMHSA, Office of Applied Studies, Washington, DC".


No myth, just reality. The War on Drugs is an abject failure. McCaffrey's claims that drug abuse soared "250%" and crime "skyrocketed" were nothing but compete bullsh!t.

 

[jhu]

after legalizing drugs, we should then legalize nudity

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: ivol07

There is one major problem with your theory: The Netherlands.

I don't live in the Netherlands. I'm sure that there are 1 million other factors that contributed to their success. If it is in fact a success. I'm sure their culture is way different from ours in the US. Maybe better, maybe worse, but different for sure. Maybe it all comes down to the way parents raise their kids over there as opposed to the slackjawed way we raise our kids over here. Maybe the police force is just more lenient to drug crimes over there so they never get reported. Or maybe it just works.

Either way, I don't think a majority of the American public would be able to handle it. Mostly Young Americans. They would see all the Heroine and Weed commercials on TV where the guy smokes some weed and three girls jump out a pool and a party starts and go get loaded. And drive loaded and work loaded and whatever else. I agree with the statement that there shouldn't be laws to protect me from myself, like motorcycle helmet laws. That only would effect the person driving the motorcycle. But legalizing drugs would effect not only the people using, but everyone else around them.

What is at play here, more than police or culture, is human nature. People in the Nethrelands have not evolved any differently than people in the US.

The majority of people in the US handle the avilability of alcohol and tobacco just fine. The vast majority of Americans do not do drugs because they know it's not a smart thing to do, not because they're illegal.

Alcohol is legal, and drunk driving is illegal. It wouldn't be any different with drugs.

 

[Moonbeam]

Human beings and animals have been taking mind altering chemicals for thousands and millions of years. It is one of our inalienable rights. There is only one person you should have any control over in this regard, other than your children, and that is yourself.

 

[Mrburns2007]

The Government needs to stop trying to protect people from themselves and just get back to the basics.

 

[gigapet]

one of the most brilliant presidents ever said it best...

Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.

- Abe lincoln

 

[OutHouse]

nice quote who said that?

 

[gigapet]

whoops how could i have forgotten that......

 

[Gaard]

It is one of our inalienable rights.

I've never heard that one before...guess I never really thought of it that way. Of course, I've never been part of the "I have the right to do drugs" crowd.

 

[ivol07]

when's the last time you saw a cigarette ad on tv with all the hot bitches surrounding the marlboro man?

No, but how many beer commercials do you see like this? And people are saying that legalizing drugs will make them cheaper. How many companys do you know of that charge a reasonable price for something of high demand? Not many.

And speaking of cigarettes. If drugs were to ever become legal in the US (which they won't) whatever company does decide to sell them better have a sh!t load of money to pay for all the frivolous lawsuits. If cigarette companies are being run out of business how quick would a weed company be run out. "I didn't know marijuana was addicting" - "I'm fat because of your product" And so on and so on.

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: ivol07

when's the last time you saw a cigarette ad on tv with all the hot bitches surrounding the marlboro man?

And speaking of cigarettes. If drugs were to ever become legal in the US (which they won't) whatever company does decide to sell them better have a sh!t load of money to pay for all the frivolous lawsuits. If cigarette companies are being run out of business how quick would a weed company be run out. "I didn't know marijuana was addicting" - "I'm fat because of your product" And so on and so on.

I'm sure they'd have the foresight to see how legally they might be liable b4 they went into business and they'd more than likely do something about it. Companies tend to not want frivoulous lawsuits against them.

edit:

furthormore this can be seen in cigs, they are killers far worse than most drugs.....simple solution...put a warning on each pack..done and done

 

[Moonbeam]

ivol07, one of the main reasons mj is illegal is because you can grow your own for free. Oh man, imagine that, a source of medicine and recreation that corporations can't control and make money off of. Simply scandelous. We simply must not have that. And free fun has just got to be unBiblical. I can just feel that in my bones. I know I don't deserve that and I doubt you do either.

 

[rbhawcroft]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby
You can decriminalize drugs instead of legalizing them. I think the UK is making steps toward this regarding pot. They still go after dealers but possession is no longer a crime. Few are suggesting making hard drugs legal for minors, in any form.

pretty tentative steps. they dont procecute cannabis in one london district anymore, so you can go there and buy it, also now nationally if you are the user you dont get procecuted.

its clear it all should be legalised but the supply regulated so that usage is kept in control, and cannabis users know it is HIGHLY carcinogenic, and harder drug users know how dangerous it is, also if an heroin addict clearly is out of control i think that when they go to the clinic to take it they can be sectioned and forced into rehabilitation, not just prescribed methadone and told to pis off.

no body believes a word the gov says about the dangers of drugs because they just scaremonger and no one believes their words.
its a barier of their own creating. formerly they were scared of middle englands reaction to drungs, since these studip people in their middle age and pensioners havent a clue about drugs. but they seem to feature less in politican commentary now, so i guess that problem is residing.

of course if america legalised drugs it would solve many of its neighbours problems and its ghettos problems, as the gangs would have to look, largely unsuccessfully, for alternative income streams. but the average republican senator doesnt get elected by crips members and their neighbours.

 

[rbhawcroft]

im 23 and living at home currently, of my graduate friends who went down to london a year ago, i think about 1/4 to 1/3 of them are regularly using cocaine, and that is probably about average for this middle class profile at the moment in london, after all e and alcohol have other problems dont they?