Abbas to go to the UN on Nobember 29

[Lemon law]

With all the mid-east turmoil and violence in Syria, Egypt, the Gaza strip, and need I mention Israeli or US violence, somewhat off all radar screens have been the non-violence coming from the Fatah party who administers the people of the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

But in an act of what Bozo Netanyuhu terms diplomatic terrorism, Abbas will finally take his case to the UN General assembly to seek an upgrade in Palestinian Status as an observer nation. One step below full UN membership. In terms of Abbas ever achieving full UN nationhood, that is now doomed because of only the US veto in the security council..

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=293279

But still, unless something radically changes, the shit will hit the fan in 5 days. As it will become not a question of how close the vote will be in the general assembly, and instead a matter how big of an embarrassment it will become for the USA and Israel in the 193 member UN general assembly. As a pro Palestinian raw majority is already assured, and the real question will become how many will simply abstain. Because they simply refuse to vote in principle against a Palestinian State but chicken out in terms of defying the USA. As the abstaining group is likely to include 55 or so member states. Leaving the general assembly vote even more lopsided. Maybe 120 yeas. 55 abstains, and thus only 18 nays. Basically a possible yea nay ratio of over 6 to 1. As the world will then wonder what Obama said in the 2009 Cairo speech.

As I can also note, Netanyuhu has already said he will feel justified to act with renewed Israeli violence for this act of Abbas non-violent diplomatic terrorism.

Posted by me as news in P&N as I will refuse to get into pissing contests over justifications. Because now the questions goes to all member States in the UN with this forum becoming largely irrelevant.

 

[glenn1]

Another spam thread from the OP about how Israel was naughty an will be in soooooo much trouble when Father gets home. Only the UN isn't Dad, and Palestinians are too fucking poor and stupid to even own a fan (although they have plenty of shit). Hell, even if they did have a fan they'd just use the parts for Katuskya rockets to launch at Israel.

 

[mike2012]

conflict for hundreds sorry thousands of years. these people will never agree to any peace. Hatred between them is embedded and is transferred from one generation to the next

 

[JEDIYoda]

But in an act of what Bozo Netanyuhu terms diplomatic terrorism, Abbas will finally take his case to the UN General assembly to seek an upgrade in Palestinian Status as an observer nation. One step below full UN membership. In terms of Abbas ever achieving full UN nationhood, that is now doomed because of only the US veto in the security council..

so..one step below is what exactly...sort of like winning the gold medal in the paralympics.......

 

[tommo123]

it's winning, just not in the eyes of the us and israel. pretty much every other country would recognise them and look down on america and israel for their actions.

is it possible that other countries could push their own sanctions against the us and israel after? i mean the us does what it wants, what if a bunch of other countries did the same and placed embargos on us products/ didn't sell to the us? hell, if canada stopped selling oil to the americans that would be interesting.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Wait, do even Palestinians take Fatah seriously?

it's winning, just not in the eyes of the us and israel. pretty much every other country would recognise them and look down on america and israel for their actions.

is it possible that other countries could push their own sanctions against the us and israel after? i mean the us does what it wants, what if a bunch of other countries did the same and placed embargos on us products/ didn't sell to the us? hell, if canada stopped selling oil to the americans that would be interesting.

Don't even need embargoes, wait till world food supply goes scarce and every poor mismanaged country demand all sorts of things to feed them because "human rights".

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Hamas won't like that. They'll make sure that the "one state" meaning just Palestine and no Israel is the only solution. The new Egyptian dictator has no credibility, so he doesn't count for much now. Personally I think Morsi should slice off a piece of Egypt and let the Palestinians have that. It's not like the courts could oppose him.

 

[theevilsharpie]

it's winning, just not in the eyes of the us and israel. pretty much every other country would recognise them and look down on america and israel for their actions.

is it possible that other countries could push their own sanctions against the us and israel after? i mean the us does what it wants, what if a bunch of other countries did the same and placed embargos on us products/ didn't sell to the us? hell, if canada stopped selling oil to the americans that would be interesting.

Placing an embargo on US goods would result in retaliatory trade sanctions from the US, and possibly from some of the US' allies.

Talk is cheap; embargos are not. Countries may voice their support for the Palestinian people, but nobody is going to fall on their sword for them for anything less than full-blown genocide (and I'm not even sure about that).

In other words, it'll never happen.

 

[randomrogue]

it's winning, just not in the eyes of the us and israel. pretty much every other country would recognise them and look down on america and israel for their actions.

is it possible that other countries could push their own sanctions against the us and israel after? i mean the us does what it wants, what if a bunch of other countries did the same and placed embargos on us products/ didn't sell to the us? hell, if canada stopped selling oil to the americans that would be interesting.

Apparently you have never gone to school.

 

[JEDIYoda]

it's winning, just not in the eyes of the us and israel. pretty much every other country would recognise them and look down on america and israel for their actions.

is it possible that other countries could push their own sanctions against the us and israel after? i mean the us does what it wants, what if a bunch of other countries did the same and placed embargos on us products/ didn't sell to the us? hell, if canada stopped selling oil to the americans that would be interesting.

hahahahaaaaaaaaaa....you must be a cousin of lemon`s....or possibly Lemon had to many of those potent shrooms and made himself another account..lololol

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Apparently you have never gone to school.

Technically he's correct. If we were to take away countries who would actually want to do so we would have... ... ... Is Upper Volta still around?

 

[tommo123]

Placing an embargo on US goods would result in retaliatory trade sanctions from the US, and possibly from some of the US' allies.

Talk is cheap; embargos are not. Countries may voice their support for the Palestinian people, but nobody is going to fall on their sword for them for anything less than full-blown genocide (and I'm not even sure about that).

In other words, it'll never happen.

i agree that it won't happen, but let's be real here - allies of the us? what allies? no country likes america. they do business due to its size. if countries did start a boycott/embargo/whatever then unless the us made it worth their while, i can't see canada, europe etc backing the us and taking one on the chin for a country that has no respect for any other country - especially during a weak economy. the public would go nuts. i don't have a problem with the american people, just its government/leaders.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

i agree that it won't happen, but let's be real here - allies of the us? what allies? no country likes america. they do business due to its size. if countries did start a boycott/embargo/whatever then unless the us made it worth their while, i can't see canada, europe etc backing the us and taking one on the chin for a country that has no respect for any other country - especially during a weak economy. the public would go nuts. i don't have a problem with the american people, just its government/leaders.

You miss the key point. No one would take it on the chin because Palestine rates about a2 on a scale of 10 in terms of international importance. Almost no one cares.

 

[Incorruptible]

You miss the key point. No one would take it on the chin because Palestine rates about a2 on a scale of 10 in terms of international importance. Almost no one cares.

This. All these Arab nations spoke out in support of them but its just rhetoric, they have no problem when its Arabs killing Arabs but if its Israel then all of a sudden they are outraged

 

[fskimospy]

Hamas won't like that. They'll make sure that the "one state" meaning just Palestine and no Israel is the only solution. The new Egyptian dictator has no credibility, so he doesn't count for much now. Personally I think Morsi should slice off a piece of Egypt and let the Palestinians have that. It's not like the courts could oppose him.

Well one state would probably look a lot more like Palestine than Israel, yes, as the Palestinian population combined with the Israeli Arab population is greater than the Jewish population. If you're going to have a real democracy, one state would be that way. It's highly unlikely that such a thing would ever fly, which is why a two state solution is best. This is why everyone should vehemently oppose Israeli settlement activity and push for their complete and total demolition.

Israel in its current form is a rogue state. It is actively enforcing an apartheid state and colonizing territories it does not legally own in direct violation of international law, the Geneva Conventions, the UN Security Council, the UN General Assembly, the ICJ, the ICRC, etc. Recognizing Israel's continuing rogue behavior is vital in order to really look at this conflict in an objective matter.

To pre-rebut the accusations of antisemitism, Israel hating, etc, etc, opposing Israel's violation of the Geneva Conventions does not mean that I wish to see Israel destroyed, all Jews exterminated, the Holocaust part 2: Electric Boogaloo, that I think the Palestinians are blameless, or anything like that. I simply oppose the illegal actions of Israel's government that I believe are destroying the possibility of a peaceful settlement of this issue. This situation harms both the Palestinians, and in the long term Israel as well. They are just too blind to see how foolish their behavior is.

 

[Genx87]

it's winning, just not in the eyes of the us and israel. pretty much every other country would recognise them and look down on america and israel for their actions.

is it possible that other countries could push their own sanctions against the us and israel after? i mean the us does what it wants, what if a bunch of other countries did the same and placed embargos on us products/ didn't sell to the us? hell, if canada stopped selling oil to the americans that would be interesting.

How to grow an economy 101, selling into the biggest market.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well one state would probably look a lot more like Palestine than Israel, yes, as the Palestinian population combined with the Israeli Arab population is greater than the Jewish population. If you're going to have a real democracy, one state would be that way. It's highly unlikely that such a thing would ever fly, which is why a two state solution is best. This is why everyone should vehemently oppose Israeli settlement activity and push for their complete and total demolition.

Israel in its current form is a rogue state. It is actively enforcing an apartheid state and colonizing territories it does not legally own in direct violation of international law, the Geneva Conventions, the UN Security Council, the UN General Assembly, the ICJ, the ICRC, etc. Recognizing Israel's continuing rogue behavior is vital in order to really look at this conflict in an objective matter.

To pre-rebut the accusations of antisemitism, Israel hating, etc, etc, opposing Israel's violation of the Geneva Conventions does not mean that I wish to see Israel destroyed, all Jews exterminated, the Holocaust part 2: Electric Boogaloo, that I think the Palestinians are blameless, or anything like that. I simply oppose the illegal actions of Israel's government that I believe are destroying the possibility of a peaceful settlement of this issue. This situation harms both the Palestinians, and in the long term Israel as well. They are just too blind to see how foolish their behavior is.

Lets address Israeli behavior and Hamas mandate for the destruction of Israel and the explicit guarantee of the rights of Jews to live there in safety. Im all over that. Both sides must make concessions.

 

[fskimospy]

Lets address Israeli behavior and Hamas mandate for the destruction of Israel and the explicit guarantee of the rights of Jews to live there in safety. Im all over that. Both sides must make concessions.

Sure, like I said the Palestinians aren't blameless. (also Hamas does not represent all Palestinians) The thing is that there is broad agreement that Hamas's position is unacceptable and US policy reflects that. There is not the same broad agreement about Israeli behavior and that's something that needs to change in the US.

We all need to come together and condemn Israel's lawless behavior and more importantly, hold them responsible for it. We have no problem holding Hamas responsible, why allow Israel to get away with such behavior?

 

[randomrogue]

I think anyone that is objective and looks at the situation realizes that what they ask of the Israelis is blatantly anti-semetic and that you would never accept such terms if they were placed upon your own country.

Israel has every right to defend itself and the only reason that the Palestinians live in such horrible conditions is because of their own actions. The arab world wants nothing to do with them so they pass the buck back at Israel and they tell these helpless people to demand the right of return, Jerusalem, and a bunch of other pipe dreams that lead them down a path of self destruction.

If the Israeli/Palestinian situation happened anywhere in Europe or North America the Palestinians would have been annihilated.

 

[fskimospy]

I think anyone that is objective and looks at the situation realizes that what they ask of the Israelis is blatantly anti-semetic and that you would never accept such terms if they were placed upon your own country.

Israel has every right to defend itself and the only reason that the Palestinians live in such horrible conditions is because of their own actions. The arab world wants nothing to do with them so they pass the buck back at Israel and they tell these helpless people to demand the right of return, Jerusalem, and a bunch of other pipe dreams that lead them down a path of self destruction.

If the Israeli/Palestinian situation happened anywhere in Europe or North America the Palestinians would have been annihilated.

Oh really? So asking the Israelis not to violate the Geneva Conventions by building settlements is antisemitic? Please explain how? Also, please go explain that to basically every single country on Earth, the US included.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Oh really? So asking the Israelis not to violate the Geneva Conventions by building settlements is antisemitic? Please explain how? Also, please go explain that to basically every single country on Earth, the US included.

You should probably educate yourself on the matter, the land you are talking about is not illegally occupied according to the UN and thus not illegal for Israel to build on. The expansion of settlements in no way means that further land is built upon, only that Israeli territory which was previously not built upon is built upon.

There are illegal settlements and in every case Israel has encountered such settlements they have been destroyed without the need for Palestinian requests to do so. No illegal settlements are linked to Israel as a nation.

 

[Lemon law]

You should probably educate yourself on the matter, the land you are talking about is not illegally occupied according to the UN and thus not illegal for Israel to build on. The expansion of settlements in no way means that further land is built upon, only that Israeli territory which was previously not built upon is built upon.

There are illegal settlements and in every case Israel has encountered such settlements they have been destroyed without the need for Palestinian requests to do so. No illegal settlements are linked to Israel as a nation.

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Excuse me JOS, you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own bogus facts. As what you say is decidedly false.

But still, as OP on this thread, the only thing that that will matter come this Thursday is the size of the vote in the UN General assembly.

As for JOS, as a British citizen, why are you wasting your time on this forum when you should be petitioning your own government to vote nay in the UN general assembly? As the British Government and many other EU nations may instead vote yea or alternately abstain on the Palestinian question in the UN general assembly.

 

[PingviN]

How will this help anyone? Fair question, no?

 

[tommo123]

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Excuse me JOS, you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own bogus facts. As what you say is decidedly false.

But still, as OP on this thread, the only thing that that will matter come this Thursday is the size of the vote in the UN General assembly.

As for JOS, as a British citizen, why are you wasting your time on this forum when you should be petitioning your own government to vote nay in the UN general assembly? As the British Government and many other EU nations may instead vote yea or alternately abstain on the Palestinian question in the UN general assembly.

because as brits we know we have no say in what our gov does anymore. unless enough people riot or something, they do what they want

 

[fskimospy]

You should probably educate yourself on the matter, the land you are talking about is not illegally occupied according to the UN and thus not illegal for Israel to build on. The expansion of settlements in no way means that further land is built upon, only that Israeli territory which was previously not built upon is built upon.

There are illegal settlements and in every case Israel has encountered such settlements they have been destroyed without the need for Palestinian requests to do so. No illegal settlements are linked to Israel as a nation.

This is simply factually false. You should probably go educate yourself on the matter.

Like, that's not even remotely close to accurate. I'm not even sure what to say. I guess you could start with the wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements

Knock yourself out.