a64, EM64T, itanium..

[RazorBurn]

Whats really the technical difference between the three.. Please explain to me the difference betwwen EM64T & itanium.. windows Xp 64 bit is coming & i want to be ready when it gets out, which processor would be the best for it?

 

[Duvie]

Well I doubt you want to pay fro an itanium....

Itaniums 64bit was the first and I believ the itanium can not backwards work on 32bit code....has to be all 64bit app...no pseudo 64bit...

EMT64 is a clone of AMD's 64 bit architecture of the early opterons per reviews, but it apears to be possibly a bit mor e then that as many reviewers have seemed to have issues running in in beta versions of Winxp 64 bit while the AMD one runs....So there must be a bit more unless it just isn't set to be recognized right now....

Both the INtel EMT64 and AMD64 are set to work as well in 32bit code and do not need a 64bit OS to run....

That is basic is one can get but all I know!!!!

i wouldn't be in 2 much of a hurry...It has been long delayed, full of bugs at this point, and hardware drivers from each peice in your system will also be needed and that is just going to take some time...


Whether you believe Intel was right or not about a year or so ago, about need for 64bit computing in the dekstop PC, you have to recognize nothing has been done and what has has not necessarily shown mind-blowing speed at this point.....I expect we wont have a full transition before the end of the year...that is my faith in Microsuck!!!

 

[sandorski]

Itanium will likely never be used by the average user. EM64T is basically an Athlon64 compatible cpu. Right now the Athlon64 is the best 64bit cpu available to the average user.

 

[whorush]

yeah if you wanna overclock get a 3000 or a 3500 athlon 64. make sure its 90nm.

 

[Markfw]

What Duvie said. Except that WinXP64 RC2 (release candidate2) I have, and detects many things well, more drivers are available everyday, and it appears very stable. It may not be long before it comes out at this rate.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Ok well to get on a more tech side of this:

The Itanium is a completely different Micro Architecure. It is based off of the EPIC (Explicitly Parallel Instrcution Computing) architecture. Additionally Duvie is correct however with one exception. There are emulators (SLOW) that allow you to run 32bit Apps. Other than that Intels instruction set for Itanium is IA64 and without an emulator there is no 32bit support. Although people commonly put the Itanium against the Opterons the Opterons are really outclassed. The Itaniums are meant for HUGE server farms. The Itaniums are also IIRC 128way processors whereas the Opterons are 2, 4, or 8 way. The EPIC microarchitecture (I hate typing that word ) actually was claimed to be the replacement for x86 a while back. However think about this: the entire world (in general) is on x86. Every piece of software would have to be rewritten, everything we had done so far would be essentially trashed. Also Intel was the only one backing the EPIC instruction set, Intel may be big but not that big. So they decided to use it only for their Itanium series of processors. These are not for consumers and i doubt many people here could afford (or want) and Itanium based system, if you could find all the components and programs necessary.

Now not necessarily the opposite to that but more or less its cousin is the x86 microarchitecture. This is what all consumer level apps (excluding mac) are coded for. There are extensions for this architecture originally created by AMD called the -64 (x86-64) instructions. This simply allows the A64's to execute apps up to 64bit. Intel bought this technology or at least the license to use it from AMD and renamed it EMT64. There are very few technical differences. While this is all fine and good IIRC they both still use 48bit memory address registers which only allow for a maximum of 2^48 bytes of memory (If i did the math right that should be 2 terabytes). We used to use 32bit memory address registers which could yeild a maximum of 4 gig of addressable memory. So as you can see this "upgrade" will last us a LONG while.

That should cover everything

Seeing as im still in HS i haven't studied this in depth (ie: College) so im sure someone could come along and help this along but that is about as technical as i can get

-Kevin

 

[IntelUser2000]

The problem with Itanium is that the performance depends a LOT on software and compiler optimizations. Compilers for Itanium are not that bad. GCC is among the worst, but Intel and SGI(or HP) is planning on improving it. The problem is that individual applications have to be specifically optimized to optimally run on Itanium. Its very hard to do that as I heard, but if its done the perfomrnace increase is tremendous. One study indicated it wouldn't be abnormal for Itanium systems to get 2-3 times performance increase on applications if optimized well.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Itanium is the Titanic, Intel is the captain.

 

[Viditor]

1. Itanium is an IA-64 processor...Opteron, A64, and the EM64T chips are x86-64 processors. This means that Itanium must transpose all x86 code into EPIC by means of a software/hardware emulator in order to run any non-EPIC programs.
2. There has been a version of windows for Itanium for at least 2 years now, but the number of apps available and the number of apps within that version of Windows is extremely limited. (it is a server-only CPU)
3. Both Itanium and Opteron have already built systems to over 10,000 processors. The largest (non-clustered) system I know of for the Opteron is a 32 CPU system.
4. Itaniums main strength is it's superior FPU. This makes it extremely powerful on some scientific apps...it's downfall is a lack of available software and that it's not as powerful as the Opteron in a cost/performance comparison for the majority of applications.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok well to get on a more tech side of this:

The Itanium is a completely different Micro Architecure. It is based off of the EPIC (Explicitly Parallel Instrcution Computing) architecture. Additionally Duvie is correct however with one exception. There are emulators (SLOW) that allow you to run 32bit Apps. Other than that Intels instruction set for Itanium is IA64 and without an emulator there is no 32bit support. Although people commonly put the Itanium against the Opterons the Opterons are really outclassed. The Itaniums are meant for HUGE server farms. The Itaniums are also IIRC 128way processors whereas the Opterons are 2, 4, or 8 way. The EPIC microarchitecture (I hate typing that word ) actually was claimed to be the replacement for x86 a while back. However think about this: the entire world (in general) is on x86. Every piece of software would have to be rewritten, everything we had done so far would be essentially trashed. Also Intel was the only one backing the EPIC instruction set, Intel may be big but not that big. So they decided to use it only for their Itanium series of processors. These are not for consumers and i doubt many people here could afford (or want) and Itanium based system, if you could find all the components and programs necessary.

Now not necessarily the opposite to that but more or less its cousin is the x86 microarchitecture. This is what all consumer level apps (excluding mac) are coded for. There are extensions for this architecture originally created by AMD called the -64 (x86-64) instructions. This simply allows the A64's to execute apps up to 64bit. Intel bought this technology or at least the license to use it from AMD and renamed it EMT64. There are very few technical differences. While this is all fine and good IIRC they both still use 48bit memory address registers which only allow for a maximum of 2^48 bytes of memory (If i did the math right that should be 2 terabytes). We used to use 32bit memory address registers which could yeild a maximum of 4 gig of addressable memory. So as you can see this "upgrade" will last us a LONG while.

That should cover everything

Seeing as im still in HS i haven't studied this in depth (ie: College) so im sure someone could come along and help this along but that is about as technical as i can get

-Kevin

Very good. A couple of clarifications

1. Intel and AMD have cross license agreements so Intel can use any AMD technology and AMD can use any Intel technology. For example, most people don't know that AMD holds the patent on hyperthreading but Intel uses it through cross-licensing just like AMD uses SSE, SSE 2, and SSE 3 from Intel.

2. The X86-64 instruction set is not just 64 bit extension to the X86 CISC. The GPR's have doubled (16 from 8) and some legacy CISC stuff that is no longer used have been removed when full 64bit binaries are used.

3. Third party boards allow for 32way Opterons at this point I believe.

Forgot to add that the EM64T Intel 64bit instruction is a copy of the X86-64 AMD instruction set but should work idenitically (however I have seen some tests that show the AMD instructions appear faster)

 

[imported_Kensai]

ROFL!! That AMD holds the patent to HT was a big surprise to me and rarely am I surprised. I haven't personally seen any 32 way Opteron boards, though I want one know, especially with dual-core coming out. Kudos to everyone who answered before me.

 

[Jassi]

Originally posted by: Kensai
ROFL!! That AMD holds the patent to HT was a big surprise to me and rarely am I surprised. I haven't personally seen any 32 way Opteron boards, though I want one know, especially with dual-core coming out. Kudos to everyone who answered before me.

Same here, so all the AMD and Intel fanboys are wasting their breath?

 

[Cheesetogo]

Originally posted by: Kensai
ROFL!! That AMD holds the patent to HT was a big surprise to me and rarely am I surprised. I haven't personally seen any 32 way Opteron boards, though I want one know, especially with dual-core coming out. Kudos to everyone who answered before me.

What opterons can run in 32 way? Also, what is superior, Itanium or Xenon MP?

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok well to get on a more tech side of this:

The Itanium is a completely different Micro Architecure. It is based off of the EPIC (Explicitly Parallel Instrcution Computing) architecture. Additionally Duvie is correct however with one exception. There are emulators (SLOW) that allow you to run 32bit Apps. Other than that Intels instruction set for Itanium is IA64 and without an emulator there is no 32bit support. Although people commonly put the Itanium against the Opterons the Opterons are really outclassed. The Itaniums are meant for HUGE server farms. The Itaniums are also IIRC 128way processors whereas the Opterons are 2, 4, or 8 way. The EPIC microarchitecture (I hate typing that word ) actually was claimed to be the replacement for x86 a while back. However think about this: the entire world (in general) is on x86. Every piece of software would have to be rewritten, everything we had done so far would be essentially trashed. Also Intel was the only one backing the EPIC instruction set, Intel may be big but not that big. So they decided to use it only for their Itanium series of processors. These are not for consumers and i doubt many people here could afford (or want) and Itanium based system, if you could find all the components and programs necessary.

Now not necessarily the opposite to that but more or less its cousin is the x86 microarchitecture. This is what all consumer level apps (excluding mac) are coded for. There are extensions for this architecture originally created by AMD called the -64 (x86-64) instructions. This simply allows the A64's to execute apps up to 64bit. Intel bought this technology or at least the license to use it from AMD and renamed it EMT64. There are very few technical differences. While this is all fine and good IIRC they both still use 48bit memory address registers which only allow for a maximum of 2^48 bytes of memory (If i did the math right that should be 2 terabytes). We used to use 32bit memory address registers which could yeild a maximum of 4 gig of addressable memory. So as you can see this "upgrade" will last us a LONG while.

That should cover everything

Seeing as im still in HS i haven't studied this in depth (ie: College) so im sure someone could come along and help this along but that is about as technical as i can get

-Kevin

Very good. A couple of clarifications

1. Intel and AMD have cross license agreements so Intel can use any AMD technology and AMD can use any Intel technology. For example, most people don't know that AMD holds the patent on hyperthreading but Intel uses it through cross-licensing just like AMD uses SSE, SSE 2, and SSE 3 from Intel.

2. The X86-64 instruction set is not just 64 bit extension to the X86 CISC. The GPR's have doubled (16 from 8) and some legacy CISC stuff that is no longer used have been removed when full 64bit binaries are used.

3. Third party boards allow for 32way Opterons at this point I believe.

Forgot to add that the EM64T Intel 64bit instruction is a copy of the X86-64 AMD instruction set but should work idenitically (however I have seen some tests that show the AMD instructions appear faster)

So why did AMD create hyperthreading if there was no need for it in their chips, AFAIK it was created to keep the PresHott on par with the K8 (IPC's that is), i am not doubting this claim/statement but would like some clarification on this, as this is news to me.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

LMAO why would you even consider getting an Itanium?!

 

[ahock]

The hyper threading AMD patended is not similar to Intel HT tech. I just heard it here also from Anandtech forums when I ask the question.... Its more of an SMT thing...... Intel did copied the hyper threading from DEC when they bought DEC's CPU business..... Got to dig my passed forums..... It was a detailed answer.

Lastly Itanium is the cause why Intel does not jump to x86-64 architecture coz they thought Itanium would replaced the x86. This is one achievement AMD did..... And forces Intel to adopt the architecture.... Its not that Intel is not capable of doing this.... But they rely more on the Itanium.... Have Intel and HP released this earlier as they promised then I guess we are now using the Itaniums porcessor.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Kensai
ROFL!! That AMD holds the patent to HT was a big surprise to me and rarely am I surprised. I haven't personally seen any 32 way Opteron boards, though I want one know, especially with dual-core coming out. Kudos to everyone who answered before me.

Are we sure AMD has the hyperthreading patent, or is someone getting it confused with hypertransport?(if anything, I think IBM would have the hyperthreading patent, not amd)

 

[Avalon]

I've heard multiple times that it was AMD who holds the hyperthreading patent, though I've not researched the subject.

 

[Aenslead]

Also, Intel's EMT64 instructions tend to work slower than AMD64 instructions due to the architecture of the respective processors they are embeded in.

Itanium is a very different core. It can run on 32bits with an emulator, but its performance is pathetic; also, its an In-line instruction processor, which is the opposite of current x86 processors.

 

[Aenslead]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok well to get on a more tech side of this:

The Itanium is a completely different Micro Architecure. It is based off of the EPIC (Explicitly Parallel Instrcution Computing) architecture. Additionally Duvie is correct however with one exception. There are emulators (SLOW) that allow you to run 32bit Apps. Other than that Intels instruction set for Itanium is IA64 and without an emulator there is no 32bit support. Although people commonly put the Itanium against the Opterons the Opterons are really outclassed. The Itaniums are meant for HUGE server farms. The Itaniums are also IIRC 128way processors whereas the Opterons are 2, 4, or 8 way. The EPIC microarchitecture (I hate typing that word ) actually was claimed to be the replacement for x86 a while back. However think about this: the entire world (in general) is on x86. Every piece of software would have to be rewritten, everything we had done so far would be essentially trashed. Also Intel was the only one backing the EPIC instruction set, Intel may be big but not that big. So they decided to use it only for their Itanium series of processors. These are not for consumers and i doubt many people here could afford (or want) and Itanium based system, if you could find all the components and programs necessary.

Now not necessarily the opposite to that but more or less its cousin is the x86 microarchitecture. This is what all consumer level apps (excluding mac) are coded for. There are extensions for this architecture originally created by AMD called the -64 (x86-64) instructions. This simply allows the A64's to execute apps up to 64bit. Intel bought this technology or at least the license to use it from AMD and renamed it EMT64. There are very few technical differences. While this is all fine and good IIRC they both still use 48bit memory address registers which only allow for a maximum of 2^48 bytes of memory (If i did the math right that should be 2 terabytes). We used to use 32bit memory address registers which could yeild a maximum of 4 gig of addressable memory. So as you can see this "upgrade" will last us a LONG while.

That should cover everything

Seeing as im still in HS i haven't studied this in depth (ie: College) so im sure someone could come along and help this along but that is about as technical as i can get

-Kevin

Didn't read your post before I posted mine...

Yeah, everything that Kevin said...

 

[Jeff7181]

The Itanium is 64-bit, but that's where the similarities end. It's a completely different type of processor. I don't think it's 32-bit code that it has problems with... I think it's x86 code where the problem comes in, not necessarily 32-bit code. Since Itanium was 64-bit to start with, there are no 32-bit applications for it, so you can't really see how 32-bit applications would perform on it.