A10-7870K vs Athlon 860K + GT730 [AtenRa & cbn]

[Sweepr]

Unnecessary post from you as usual.

Did I hurt your feelings?

Don't like the thread, ignore it but i guess some you just can't help yourselfs

I just can't help myself pointing out that $15-20 on top of that Geforce GT730 provides much better performance than any APU. Unless you're extremely budget limited, makes a lot more sense for a 2016 gaming build.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Did I hurt your feelings?



I just can't help myself pointing out that $15-20 on top of that Geforce GT730 provides much better performance than any APU. Unless you're extremely budget limited, makes a lot more sense for a 2016 gaming build.

Don't worry im not wired to hurt easily

Thread is not about 2016 gaming rigs, it's about budget gaming. Now let that sink a bit.

 

[Sweepr]

Thread is not about 2016 gaming rigs, it's about budget gaming. Now let that sink a bit.

This thread is about APUs vs low-end dGPUs and Geforce GT730 is not representative of the best perf/$ options out there. In an era where game launches cost $50-60, the extra cost for >50% better performance is totally justified.

 

[NTMBK]

This thread is about APUs vs low-end dGPUs and Geforce GT730 is not representative of the best perf/$ options out there. In an era where game launches cost $50-60, the extra cost for >50% better performance is totally justified.

Yup, this review just demonstrates the pointlessness of cards like the 730 in a new build, where the IGP will be just as powerful.

But if you want to drop it into an old system, e.g. an old Core 2 Duo office machine, it's not the worst choice.

 

[VirtualLarry]

What about a GT740, with 128-bit GDDR5? Or do they make those?

Edit: I checked the box, the $59.99 + ship MSI GT740 1GB GDDR5 card does have a 128-bit memory bus, according to the back of the box.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Don't worry im not wired to hurt easily

Thread is not about 2016 gaming rigs, it's about budget gaming. Now let that sink a bit.

Well, if you play games, it is by definition a "gaming" rig is it not? What the thread shows is really what a niche product an APU is and how tightly (artificially IMO) you have to construct a scenario in order for gaming on an APU to make any kind of sense.

 

[cbn]

Yup, this review just demonstrates the pointlessness of cards like the 730 in a new build, where the IGP will be just as powerful.

I do think the low end cards are poor on the performance per dollar side, but as far as value goes the GT 730 does stack up well against A10-7870K.

1.) Cost in the United States.

The Athlon x 4 860K/GT 730 combo is $5 to $14 cheaper (after $10 rebate) than A10-7870K going by current Newegg and Amazon prices:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&cm_re=Athlon_x_4_860K-_-19-113-379-_-Product (Athlon x 4 860K, $72.99 free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...tm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-Skimlinks (GT 730, $52.99 after $10 rebate with either $2.99 shipping or free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113393 (A10-7870K, $139,99 free shipping. Amazon is $134.00 shipped and the lowest price available according to PC part picker ---> http://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-ad787kxdjcbox )

Then factoring in RAM prices the A10-7870K to Athlon x4 860K/GT 730 price gap increases another $8 if the Athlon x 4 860K user selects 1600 speed.

2133 starts at $41 shipped:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...69&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30

1866 starts at $35 shipped:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7611 600006050 600006069 600532699&IsNodeId=1

1600 starts at $33 shipped:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...6050 600006069 8000&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&page=1

(I included the pricing for DDR3 1866 because that is the speed I used with Athlon x4 860K/GT 730. With that mentioned, I believe 1600 speed for the Athlon x 4 860K would have been just as fast for this GPU limited testing we are doing)

2.) More bandwidth (we see this in the game benchmarks where Athlon x 4/GT 730 wins at the higher resolutions).

3). Linux performance (eg, using SteamOS or Linux Mint with Steam Client).

However, with that mentioned the A10-7870K can be used in smallest Mini-ITX enclosures like the Antec ISK-110. This can't be done with Athlon x 4 860K/GT730 (although the low profile card form factor used in pretty small). EDIT (2/18/2016): Antec ISK-110 only comes with a 90W power adapter builds like this one, this one and this one only use 65W CPUs.

 

[LTC8K6]

What about a GT740, with 128-bit GDDR5? Or do they make those?

Edit: I checked the box, the $59.99 + ship MSI GT740 1GB GDDR5 card does have a 128-bit memory bus, according to the back of the box.

It also has 16rops vs 8 for the 730.

 

[USER8000]

Any chance you can test an A8 7600 or A8 7650K? These can be had around the £65 to £70 mark in the UK and a G1840 and a GT730 GDDR5 would come to around £80 to £90,and with a GT740 GDDR5 it would be closer to £100.

It would be interesting to see how well a £50 to £60 dGPU would do with a budget CPU in comparison.

 

[LTC8K6]

If the price difference is small, the GT740 is much faster than the GT730.

 

[LTC8K6]

750Ti for $104.00

Probably the minimum card I would buy if gaming will be involved.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500349&cm_re=gtx750-_-14-500-349-_-Product

 

[cbn]

If the price difference is small, the GT740 is much faster than the GT730.

Here is the best deal I can find on a low profile GT 740 ($84.99 shipped):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KO0IENG/?tag=extension-kb-20

So 60% more expensive than the PNY GT 730 GDDR5 after its $10 rebate is applied. Also notice the cooler on the GT 740 is taller than the cooler on the PNY Gt 730 shown below:

With that mentioned, GT 740 GDDR5 does have 10% higher core clock, twice the ROPs, twice the bandwidth.....but in the case of that Zotac card VRAM is still 1GB.

 

[cbn]

750Ti for $104.00

Probably the minimum card I would buy if gaming will be involved.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500349&cm_re=gtx750-_-14-500-349-_-Product

This low profile one is even cheaper at $99.99 after rebate:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127836

(Pretty surprising to see low profile card at this power level (60W) cheaper than the full size card. Notice it does have a tall cooler though...sometimes a factor in certain SFF pre-built or DIY builds)

 

[LTC8K6]

I would say the GT730 GDDR5 is too slow, and the GT740 GDDR5 is too close to the 750ti in price.

So I again arrive at a 750ti as a minimum gaming card.

It's also more comparable hardware wise to the GPU in the 7870K.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, I have a HD7770, and if I were buying a card now, I wouldn't consider it. It was a pretty good low end card a couple of years ago, maybe close to 3 now, when I bought it, but it really struggles with modern games like FO4, W3, and even DAI. There are really no more new games I want to play though, so I probably will just live with it and play my backlogged Steam games.

So I would agree, bare minimum for gaming these days is 2gb 750Ti or AMD equivalent.

 

[NTMBK]

Yea, I have a HD7770, and if I were buying a card now, I wouldn't consider it. It was a pretty good low end card a couple of years ago, maybe close to 3 now, when I bought it, but it really struggles with modern games like FO4, W3, and even DAI. There are really no more new games I want to play though, so I probably will just live with it and play my backlogged Steam games.

So I would agree, bare minimum for gaming these days is 2gb 750Ti or AMD equivalent.

Same, but thankfully my desktop mostly gets used for strategy or adventure games these days- not exactly super demanding graphically.

I figure when 14nm GPUs have been out for a while I'll upgrade my Steambox, and the R9 270 from there can be demoted to desktop duty.

 

[dark zero]

A10-7870K: $140*
Celeron G1820 + Radeon R7 250X (GDDR5): $153*

Newegg prices. Also the second system doesn't 'require' DDR3-2133 RAM.
Overall performance according to ComputerBase:

APU gaming system? No thanks. Very little extra money still buys much better performance for desktops.

BTW you can post up to 10 images per post.

Celeron is dual Core. Some games won't work as expecting. You need to get a Core i3 at minimun to get smooth performance.

 

[Yuriman]

Celeron is dual Core. Some games won't work as expecting. You need to get a Core i3 at minimun to get smooth performance.

While true, some games also run poorly on stock AMD quads, due to IPC. I'd say overall AMD quads hold an advantage over lower clocked Intel duals, but any CPU in this price range will have some major weaknesses.

 

[AtenRa]

AtenRa since you have a i3 6100, could you create a similar thread - 7870k vs i3 6100????

I will soon enough 😉

ps. its the Core i3 6300

ps 2. For those taking the A10-7870K price against Athlon + GT730, just use the A10-7850K and OC the iGPU to 866MHz or even higher.
No need to buy the top SKU, its always not the best perf/$ either on AMD or Intel.

 

[Piroko]

The first thing I noticed while reading this thread was:
"Oh, cool, a forum battle of potential SFF builds, I'll follow that"
The second thing was "Oh great, someone doesn't get it and tries to mute all other posters."

Yea, I have a HD7770, and if I were buying a card now, I wouldn't consider it. It was a pretty good low end card a couple of years ago, maybe close to 3 now, when I bought it, but it really struggles with modern games like FO4, W3, and even DAI.

Completely agree on this one. I still have one in another PC and it does struggle quite a lot with newer games. But anything 2-3 years old runs plenty fast on the card, like Civ5.

So I would agree, bare minimum for gaming these days is 2gb 750Ti or AMD equivalent.

Apart from the vram that isn't much of an upgrade, is it? I mean, the 7850 / 370 is about as fast as the 950 and the only tier in between that and the 7770 is a 7790... I'd recommend a 370 or 950 unless the person is going for something specific (i.e. SFF builds).

 

[USER8000]

I will soon enough 😉

ps. its the Core i3 6300

ps 2. For those taking the A10-7870K price against Athlon + GT730, just use the A10-7850K and OC the iGPU to 866MHz or even higher.
No need to buy the top SKU, its always not the best perf/$ either on AMD or Intel.

Any chance you can compare them to the A8 7600 or A8 7650K??

 

[know of fence]

1366 x 768 is the matching, magic number for APUs restricted by DDR memory bandwidth, however those Monitors or TVs aren't even sold or produced any more.
1280 x 720 only existed on notebook screens I believe.

Though honestly those 22" TVs are pretty great for crappy DVB-T signal.

 

[cbn]

1366 x 768 is the matching, magic number for APUs restricted by DDR memory bandwidth, however those Monitors or TVs aren't even sold or produced any more.

1366 x 768 is still around.

In fact, looking at this Best Buy listing for TV's 28" to 32" it is even more common that 1080p:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchp...creensizerange_facet=TV Screen Size~28" - 32"

(39 listings at 720p/768 vs. 24 listings at 1080p)

And Newegg's listing for 32" shows a split of 21 720p vs. 15 for 1080p:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100167585 600054118 8000&IsNodeId=1

 

[TeknoBug]

I wouldn't touch a GT730, lowest I'd go is GTX750Ti (there's even low profile versions), but the R7 240 and 250 can be paired up as a pseudo-crossfire with A8-7600 and A10-7800 and can give surprisingly good results (I had a setup like that for a while).

 

[frozentundra123456]

The first thing I noticed while reading this thread was:
"Oh, cool, a forum battle of potential SFF builds, I'll follow that"
The second thing was "Oh great, someone doesn't get it and tries to mute all other posters."

Completely agree on this one. I still have one in another PC and it does struggle quite a lot with newer games. But anything 2-3 years old runs plenty fast on the card, like Civ5.

Apart from the vram that isn't much of an upgrade, is it? I mean, the 7850 / 370 is about as fast as the 950 and the only tier in between that and the 7770 is a 7790... I'd recommend a 370 or 950 unless the person is going for something specific (i.e. SFF builds).

Well, definitely, I would not upgrade from a HD7770 to a 750Ti. But for an off the shelf system with a low end PSU, it would still be a decent card. If I were to start from scratch now though, I would go with something like 950/960 Ti or AMD equivalent. I say AMD equivalent, because I dont recall the new numbering system as easily and nVidia.